Tulsans finally getting it?

[Doug Loudenback]

I knew when I made my initial (and subsequent) replies to swake that I was being sarcastic and combative with him ... it torques my butt when some Tulsa know-it-all does-drop-inn (that's a joke) and tells Okc what and how it should be and how dumb it is for not being that ... just like the TulsaNow people would feel if I did that there. Combine that with a personal attack on a good friend (that being Steve Lackmeyer) then I am disinclined to show restraint. For the record, I reiterate my forever-held and not infrequently stated opinion that I like Tulsa and do wish Tulsa well. Every now and then the asshole comes out in me, and that's all I've got to say about that.

[fuzzytoad]

Then I have no earthly idea who you are talking about.

one of them, who actually replied to an almost 2-month old pm today(stating she had left and why), was jc4455. Another was purplemonkeythief. I was also about to mention iron76hd, but I see he was banned.

[Midtowner]

one of them, who actually replied to an almost 2-month old pm today(stating she had left and why), was jc4455. Another was purplemonkeythief. I was also about to mention iron76hd, but I see he was banned.

Ah well, I wouldn't get worked up about folks leaving an internet forum. People come and go. Iron was banned for his repeated threats and personal attacks.

As far as certain folks leaving post-MAPS 3, the only reason they came here in the first place was to advocate their position re: MAPS 3. Now that issue is past (and passed!) and their work here is done.

The vast majority of the folks here supported MAPS 3 because we're the sort of demographic attracted by a forum which focuses on OKC development. Of course we'll tend to disagree with folks who would threaten what is one of the most ambitious set of public projects this state's seen since the days of the WPA.

[Urban Pioneer]

What exactly is the mayoral situation there? How do people feel about Taylor, then this new guy? What is he promising?

I want to go back to my original quote that "devolved" into a petty discussion.

I care about Tulsa greatly. I enjoy visiting it when possible and treasure its great architecture and more "urbanized" feel.

However, this thread was completely legitimate. I was trying to understand what Mayor Taylor did right/wrong and why people elected this new guy. What does he bring to the table? Why did people elect him? On what platform?

My best wishes to our sister city.

[circuitboard]

Tulsa World: Tulsa infant's death declared homicide

What is the deal with Tulsa's Crime? Why did Tulsa lay off officers again? They have almost beat the record from 2003 for homicides.

[Spartan]

However, this thread was completely legitimate. I was trying to understand what Mayor Taylor did right/wrong and why people elected this new guy. What does he bring to the table? Why did people elect him? On what platform?

My best wishes to our sister city.

Tulsa mayoral elections are the reason Tulsa can't make progress, because they elect their mayor from a party system, and the mayor has ALL the real power, unlike OKC.

Kathy Taylor was a good mayor in my opinion. She focused on downtown and made a lot of unpopular moves to improve it. She got City Hall much better digs, she made plans to sell off the prime former City Hall site to developers (it is across from the BOK Center). She is extremely unpopular for the new downtown ballpark under construction, that I think will be a homerun (cool design). She pushed for lots of downtown issues.

Tulsans like to claim they want to focus on their downtown but the reality is that they don't. The last thing they want to do is spend ANY money whatsoever on their downtown.

Bartlett was elected because he appealed to the suburban voters. He is Republican, highly conservative, he accused his opponents of being pansy downtowner liberals, he is very polarizing, and he claims he will bring downtown Tulsa back to being decent but has no real statements of how he will do that. He opposed his opponent's plans to make the city fleets run on CNG, boost downtown development, and so on.

Tulsa is just going to be ran further into the ground by this guy. But Kathy Taylor was actually a good mayor. In OKC she would have been popular.

[Spartan]

From the Tulsanow.org website:

Fotd, 12/12/09, 1:24pm

"Face it, had Tim McVeigh not lit the match, downtown OKC would have never ignited to the degree it has....those first Federal funds for Murrah Memorial got the ball rolling. Now, watch how Fed funds help New Orleans retain a vibrant city core especially with all those poor people washed out of their population."

So much class over there.

Yeah then explain why downtown Tulsa got 5 times the Stimulus funds (for the massive IDL reconstruction project) that OKC did and yet they've got squat going.

What do they want us to say, "Oh thank the Looord McVeigh lit the match!" I can't believe that comment..wow. I am proud of OKC, and my pride in OKC has been mistaken for arrogance and swagger, but this is exactly the kind of comment that gets me rather defensive..surely I can't be blamed for that.

Other than how I know I shouldn't ever take that kind of bait..

[OUGrad05]

Taylor's approval rating were above 60%, no one was even going to run against her.

You obviously have learned all you know of Tulsa from a particular single talk radio station. The KFAQ, Bates, Medlock club is a nutty little rightwing fringe movement, but KFAQ's rating are poor and their followers numbers aren't large.

From what I read here about Oklahoma City's talk radio, you can all imagine what it would be like to only know of Oklahoma City what is spewed on talk radio.

Taylors approval ratings fluctuated quite a bit, you can say what you want about me or where I get my info, you don't know me. I live here, have for several years and get my news from a wide variety of sources so keep talkign like you have a clue about me...its cool

where did you hear that downtown was going to get a new hirise hotel? Last I heard that was off the table and a mixed use development was coming instead...which will probably be better, but the hirise hotel was canned in favor of a "hampton inn" and people got their panties in a wad and the city backed off that and decided to go mixed use with retail and condos with a small hotel...unless they changed it again.

[OUGrad05]

From the Tulsanow.org website:

Fotd, 12/12/09, 1:24pm

"Face it, had Tim McVeigh not lit the match, downtown OKC would have never ignited to the degree it has....those first Federal funds for Murrah Memorial got the ball rolling. Now, watch how Fed funds help New Orleans retain a vibrant city core especially with all those poor people washed out of their population."

So much class over there.

Tulsanow overall is a decent board, I post on there occassionally and read a lot, most posts aren't that bad or anywhere close to spewing such stupidity.

[Doug Loudenback]

Tulsanow overall is a decent board, I post on there occassionally and read a lot, most posts aren't that bad or anywhere close to spewing such stupidity.

Yes it is, as long as Oklahoma City is not the topic, but when it is it can get pretty wretched. The wretched comments fall into two groups: (a) Those who can think of nothing better to say that refer to Okc by derogatory terms such as "Oklahoma ****ty," and (b) those who avoid the name calling but position themselves as being the repository of city-wisdom and have no compunction in proclaiming that they though they know what is best for Okc, like swake. Some others are more tempered and reasoned.

[OUGrad05]

Tulsa World: Tulsa infant's death declared homicide

What is the deal with Tulsa's Crime? Why did Tulsa lay off officers again? They have almost beat the record from 2003 for homicides.

Because the city is mismanaged and has been giving handouts to political friends...Taylor was going to add 100 new officers, I think the city may have actually lost officers under her tenure...

[Chance23]

Biased OKC media because a blogger made a joke on an opinion blog?

So the Tulsa World does an even and fair job of covering OKC then?

[bluedogok]

I think those of us who have seen what Swake espouses on other boards really know that he/she is nothing more than a Tulsa Fanboy/OKC Hater and therefore no one to take seriously when it comes to matters of comparison of the two cities. Swake is very good at discussion/information and ideas for Tulsa but that insight gets clouded when anything OKC enters the discussion.

I personally have never understood the "city rivalry" crap whether between Tulsa/OKC, Fort Worth/Dallas, Houston/Dallas, San Antonio/Austin, St. Paul/Minneapolis, etc. They are just juvenile and pretty stupid. I don't like seeing Tulsa in disarray as two successful cities are much better for the state than one ascending and one that seems like a Keystone Kops episode.

[OKC@heart]

I think those of us who have seen what Swake espouses on other boards really know that he/she is nothing more than a Tulsa Fanboy/OKC Hater and therefore no one to take seriously when it comes to matters of comparison of the two cities. Swake is very good at discussion/information and ideas for Tulsa but that insight gets clouded when anything OKC enters the discussion.

I personally have never understood the "city rivalry" crap whether between Tulsa/OKC, Fort Worth/Dallas, Houston/Dallas, San Antonio/Austin, St. Paul/Minneapolis, etc. They are just juvenile and pretty stupid. I don't like seeing Tulsa in disarray as two successful cities are much better for the state than one ascending and one that seems like a Keystone Kops episode.

I for one would like to echo your last statement. Two strong cities in such close proximity that have vastly different strengths could really capitalize off of each other if each stopped trying to out pace the other and rather evaluated what each could maximize and then the resulting synergy could stand as a model for other sister cities. I know that this is very idealistic and it exposes the romaticist dreamer in me, but there you have it. There is something to be said for that once in a while.

We have to remember that periods like what OKC is experiencing are phenominal but occur in cycles. Lets just work our buts off so that we keep our momentum and progress so we stretch out the period of growth and expansion as long as possible!

[soonerguru]

Competition is good. If MAPS 3 delivers like I think it will, it will have a positive influence on Tulsa.

By the way, I personally have always liked Tulsa and would like to see it be awesome. Some of the folks responding here seem very sensitive, because the conversation started out civilly.

[HOT ROD]

ok, here is an "outsider's" prospective here.

In general, I think it is true that tulsa comes out swinging against anything OKC, and it is Tulsan's who are hostile. If you view comments from most Tulsan's, you will either see envy or disgust or regret for anything OKC - along with their common explanation that ANYTHING OKC is government oriented and therefore Tulsa paid for. Do they not realize that OKC also pays taxes and therefore using the logic of bigger city/more tax base - probably pays more for Tulsa than they pay for OKC?....

What I also see, is NOW - when a Tulsan attacks OKC, OKC people defend OKC and put the Tulsan's in their place. Then, you hear the Tulsan crying about being 'attacked', when they were the ones started it. I suppose they have been used to 'dumping' on OKC uncontested for so long - that now when OKC fights back (with facts), the Tulsans can't handle it. They can dish it but they can't take it.

One more point, read through this and amost ANY post from an OKC person defending OKC against a Tulsan, and read this common phrase "I love Tulsa" or "I wish Tulsa well" or the like. .... Even look at OKC people offering "constructive" words for Tulsa or what tulsa could do to become better. ....

do you EVER see a Tulsan say that about OKC? I have NEVER seen a tulsan (who at first dissed OKC) say anything nice about OKC or wish OKC well or the like - their disdain for OKC is completely childish. ...

I think the little man's syndrome has caught up with Tulsa and now they realize they have been left behind. OKC is a different player now and in a different league. Sure, tulsa has assets that are better, but those are becoming fewer and fewer as time goes on.

The Tulsa/OKC rivalry has always been one sided, and it is Tulsa who always starts the Sh^^, but now OKC backs it up and has honestly surpassed the childishness (if that is a word).

I think Wichita or Amarillo/ABQ or Lawton might be better pickin's for them going forward. Kudos.

[Spartan]

Biased OKC media because a blogger made a joke on an opinion blog?

So the Tulsa World does an even and fair job of covering OKC then?

Yeah I thought that Swake's diatribe against Steve was especially hilarious consider so many things... that Steve (to our frustration) stayed completely silent on MAPS3 on his opinion blog, has gone to extraordinary attempts to be fair and reasoned, and that obviously Tulsa is the shining beacon on the hill of fair journalism with the Tulsa Whirled.

And Swake forgot to mention that Steve is actually a terrorist on the Dept of Homeland Security's watch list. Personally I think having Steve as a reporter is one of the few decent things that the Jokelahoman actually does, because he's not just a beat reporter, but he's actually an entrenched member of the downtown community. That's invaluable for the purposes of knowing what goes on behind closed doors and getting insight on what major downtown players are thinking.

[Spartan]

ok, here is an "outsider's" prospective here.

In general, I think it is true that tulsa comes out swinging against anything OKC, and it is Tulsan's who are hostile. If you view comments from most Tulsan's, you will either see envy or disgust or regret for anything OKC - along with their common explanation that ANYTHING OKC is government oriented and therefore Tulsa paid for. Do they not realize that OKC also pays taxes and therefore using the logic of bigger city/more tax base - probably pays more for Tulsa than they pay for OKC?....

What I also see, is NOW - when a Tulsan attacks OKC, OKC people defend OKC and put the Tulsan's in their place. Then, you hear the Tulsan crying about being 'attacked', when they were the ones started it. I suppose they have been used to 'dumping' on OKC uncontested for so long - that now when OKC fights back (with facts), the Tulsans can't handle it. They can dish it but they can't take it.

One more point, read through this and amost ANY post from an OKC person defending OKC against a Tulsan, and read this common phrase "I love Tulsa" or "I wish Tulsa well" or the like. .... Even look at OKC people offering "constructive" words for Tulsa or what tulsa could do to become better. ....

do you EVER see a Tulsan say that about OKC? I have NEVER seen a tulsan (who at first dissed OKC) say anything nice about OKC or wish OKC well or the like - their disdain for OKC is completely childish. ...

I think the little man's syndrome has caught up with Tulsa and now they realize they have been left behind. OKC is a different player now and in a different league. Sure, tulsa has assets that are better, but those are becoming fewer and fewer as time goes on.

The Tulsa/OKC rivalry has always been one sided, and it is Tulsa who always starts the Sh^^, but now OKC backs it up and has honestly surpassed the childishness (if that is a word).

I think Wichita or Amarillo/ABQ or Lawton might be better pickin's for them going forward. Kudos.

Well if you want to see the Tulsa rivalry to the nth degree, just check out the Southeast section at SkyscraperCity. I know I see Hot Rod on their occasionally. Let's just say it's a lot of fun fighting ignorance and retardation one post at a time.. OKC posters get a lot of flack for being very defensive against the flame wars a handful of posters always try and incite when it comes to OKC. Why, I do not know..

Southeast - SkyscraperCity

[jbrown84]

I was also about to mention iron76hd, but I see he was banned.

You though iron was engaging in constructive discussion??? Wow.

Well if you want to see the Tulsa rivalry to the nth degree, just check out the Southeast section at SkyscraperCity. I know I see Hot Rod on their occasionally. Let's just say it's a lot of fun fighting ignorance and retardation one post at a time.. OKC posters get a lot of flack for being very defensive against the flame wars a handful of posters always try and incite when it comes to OKC. Why, I do not know..

Southeast - SkyscraperCity

I haven't seen any Tulsans flaming us over there, unless Cashville is one masquerading as a Nashville resident (which would explain things).

[Spartan]

No there are probably only 2 or 3 Tulsans over there, most of the vocal anti-OKC posters are from potluck locations.

[HOT ROD]

Well if you want to see the Tulsa rivalry to the nth degree, just check out the Southeast section at SkyscraperCity. I know I see Hot Rod on their occasionally. Let's just say it's a lot of fun fighting ignorance and retardation one post at a time.. OKC posters get a lot of flack for being very defensive against the flame wars a handful of posters always try and incite when it comes to OKC. Why, I do not know..

Southeast - SkyscraperCity

yes Spartan, I do post on SSC particularly in OKC (or other cities I represent/like) threads. I do agree that there seems to be a lot of resistance to OKC projects from peer (and non-peer) cities in the South.

It seems as they have a HUGE problem with the idea of competing with OKC or that OKC is no longer the nation's largest 3rd tier city.

[ronronnie1]

A lot of Tulsans do think negatively of OKC. We've all seen it first hand. Some of my favorites: "Tulsa should have been the state capital, just look at how much more beautiful it is - When I drive to Dallas, I totally skip OKC - I tell my friends from out of town Tulsa is 100 miles NE of UGLY..." You get the point.

And I really don't understand why so many Tulsans feel this way. If OKC just disappeared tomorrow, how would Tulsa benefit? I never hear OKCitizens talk this way about Tulsa. For the most part, people in OKC looked at Tulsa as the "better" place to live (pre-1990.) Ah that's it. Because Tulsa is no longer viewed by OKCitizens as the tres chic and sophisticated city, Tulsans are upset.

Quite silly if you ask me.