Mass Transit Update! - Important

[betts]

Seems to me this forum is a pretty big public spotlight. Are you at liberty to share with us the names of the powerful people that would like to see mass transit killed? I'm just asking.

My question is why would anyone want to see mass transit killed? I'm not interested in seeing stupid mass transit (i.e. routes that don't make sense, such infrequent times that it's not practical, poor marketing, etc), but I cannot think of a single good reason why anyone who cares about Oklahoma City wouldn't want to see good mass transit.

[andy157]

My question is why would anyone want to see mass transit killed? I'm not interested in seeing stupid mass transit (i.e. routes that don't make sense, such infrequent times that it's not practical, poor marketing, etc), but I cannot think of a single good reason why anyone who cares about Oklahoma City wouldn't want to see good mass transit.

Well, thats a very good question. But dont ask me, ask metro.

[Superhyper]

I just want to note that Kansas City's light rail initiative failed (for anyone who may have been following that ages ago), so if we ever want to grab the spotlight from them and be seen as having more forward momentum....now is probably the time.

[metro]

My question is why would anyone want to see mass transit killed? I'm not interested in seeing stupid mass transit (i.e. routes that don't make sense, such infrequent times that it's not practical, poor marketing, etc), but I cannot think of a single good reason why anyone who cares about Oklahoma City wouldn't want to see good mass transit.

Ha, nice try. You think I'm stupid enough to release names in this good old boy community? Sorry, I don't need any hired men in black suits after me for something silly as telling the truth on a message board.

[metro]

I just want to note that Kansas City's light rail initiative failed (for anyone who may have been following that ages ago), so if we ever want to grab the spotlight from them and be seen as having more forward momentum....now is probably the time.

That's good to know, I wonder if our city leaders know. You all know I am an avid supporter of our city and have promoted our city leaders, but as of late they have begun to rest on their laurels ( I can't speak that of Meg Salyer though as she is just getting her foot in the door still, the rest, I can't say that).

[jbrown84]

I just want to note that Kansas City's light rail initiative failed .

As in voted down?

[Platemaker]

• Kansas City — Light rail project, funded by sales tax — Failed
This measure lost, with only 44% of voters approving and 56% opposing.

(This was for 3/8 cent for 25 years)

• St. Louis — Ongoing funding and extensions to MetroLink light rail and transit system, new sales tax funding — Failed
Proposition M lost, with 52% of voters opposing and 48% supporting the measure.

....let's not be Missouri!

[mecarr]

So just to be clear, the idea to link OKC and Kansas City through a rail system has been voted down?

[jbrown84]

No, the OP was just pointing out that Kansas City in recent weeks voted against building a Light Rail system.

[Bunty]

I would think that the people who are opposed to the idea of bigger government would be among those most opposed to furthering the idea of mass public transit and doubly so if it means raising taxes to bring it about.

[metro]

So just to be clear, the idea to link OKC and Kansas City through a rail system has been voted down?

And what you're referring to also has nothing to do with Missouri, well not much. Kansas would be the one really fronting most of the money and paid for the study, because the link would be to Newton, KS which has connections north to KC and Chicago and also west to the west coast. So Newton, Kansas is really the key point, not KC.

[CuatrodeMayo]

I would think that the people who are opposed to the idea of bigger government would be among those most opposed to furthering the idea of mass public transit and doubly so if it means raising taxes to bring it about.

Not everything is black and white, my friend.

[Superhyper]

Not everything is black and white, my friend.

I happen to agree. While I would classify myself as a fiscal conservative, infrastructure is one of those areas where I see government investment as not just helpful but necessary. An improved infrastructure is necessary for real quality of life and economic gains. Mass-transit specifically is helpful for building up population density while cutting down on urban sprawl, as well as just plain out making it easier to get around and do business. Obviously the benefits and challenges vary from city to city, but that's the gist of it. I was actually sorry to hear about KC not approving light rail, although it gives us an opportunity to steal some glory I really feel like they are a city that could benefit from it a lot. I hope they try again soon.

[Kerry]

I would think that the people who are opposed to the idea of bigger government would be among those most opposed to furthering the idea of mass public transit and doubly so if it means raising taxes to bring it about.

I think you are confusing conservatives for anarchist. I might be the most conservative person on this board and I have no problem with government building infrastructure. However, Missouri voted for Obama and against the mass transit plan while Oklahoma voted for McCain and has put mass transit at the top of the list for MAPS 3. You might want to rethink your thought.

[sgray]

I think you are confusing conservatives for anarchist. I might be the most conservative person on this board and I have no problem with government building infrastructure. However, Missouri voted for Obama and against the mass transit plan while Oklahoma voted for McCain and has put mass transit at the top of the list for MAPS 3. You might want to rethink your thought.

You might want to rethink your position, Kerry. Do keep in mind that St Louis, MO (pro-Obama) has a heck of a lot more mass transit than OKC has! Metro St Louis Consider this--is it possible that folks aren't necessarily against the idea itself, but they are perhaps unhappy with the way it is planned or some other detail unknown to us? Perhaps some fine details, such as cost control or other under-the-surface issues caused this. Perhaps they don't like the layout. I don't consider those folks stupid, and it is a conservative-leaning area so maybe they just demand better for their $$$. Obviously, the planning organization is going to have to go back to the drawing board anyways on this, so who knows... I also don't know the scope of that light rail plan, but those are two cities from different states sandwiched together. I don't know if there was any issue with that or not.

You've drawn ties to Missouri folks' votes compared to Oklahoma folks' votes...but also consider this--while OKC has been "talking" about mass transit for years and years and has built nearly nothing, St Louis (pro-Obama) has actually built a system that is in use today. Also keep in mind that the OKC area itself was not exactly a landslide pro-McCain deal, you know?

Also, this is not a statewide issue. So you can't draw general conclusions based on how the state votes.



----

I happen to agree. While I would classify myself as a fiscal conservative, infrastructure is one of those areas where I see government investment as not just helpful but necessary. An improved infrastructure is necessary for real quality of life and economic gains. Mass-transit specifically is helpful for building up population density while cutting down on urban sprawl, as well as just plain out making it easier to get around and do business. Obviously the benefits and challenges vary from city to city, but that's the gist of it. I was actually sorry to hear about KC not approving light rail, although it gives us an opportunity to steal some glory I really feel like they are a city that could benefit from it a lot. I hope they try again soon.

I couldn't agree more. Why is it that in OKC, when it comes to things we use and need daily--every day of our lives for the foreseeable future, that we cannot invest in infrastructure? We can't shed a penny to better maintain roads and we keep driving through potholes and streets that can be worse than driving down a dirt road? We know we're gonna still need those roads 20 years from now, but we keep doing only the minimum (and in some cases not even that).

[HOT ROD]

sgray is right, OKC was one of the very few Obama-heavy districts in the state.

It was the rural that was heavy McCain and the fact that the state closed the polls early so that working people couldn't necessarily provide a stronger Obama showing. Now that is FACT! (which is contrary to all of you who have always thought that only repubs are the ones who show up after working hours). Many I know were austonished that OK went so much for McCain and even more upset that the polls closed at 7pm (they were open unil 9pm out here by the way).

So Kerry, while we disagree infrequently - I have to say that I do not follow your correlation and totally think you have OKC miscalculated.

Also, just because somebody voted for Obama doesn't mean they are not conservative or not even Republican or whatever; it is a RIGHT to vote for who you think is the best person. And, in all honesty, McCain was not it IMO.

So I say, before people fall into those typical prejudices and separatists roles - give the guy a chance before you place him as a liberal spend freak. After all, with everyone losing their jobs (yes, I heard Tampa got hit HARD) - those on here who keep talking about not giving handouts might be the VERY ONES who will need it.

Then what are you going to say?

[HOT ROD]

I think there is something to be taken from the Missouri failures but it is NOT to draw conclusions about which state voted what and whatever regarding our new president.

What we need to understand is 1) that OKC JUST NOW, within the past 5 years - is even able to be mentioned in the same sentence as other Tier II cities like Kansas City and Saint Louis, STL being LONG established and was once a Tier I. 2) OKC has JUST NOW picked up it's quality of life to a point where somebody wont be completely bored during a visit. 3) OKC has TALKED about mass transit for 20 years now but has done NOTHING! 4) It is doubtful that OKC will do anything regarding mass transit within the next 10 years - unless one or more of the large energy companies throws their weight behind it.

OKC leadership has had vision and I am happy with the progress and the fact that Cornett is the leader - but, OKC has and STILL IS missing out on opportunities. OKC should ALREADY have a commuter rail system and commuter bus. OKC should already have transit centers established in suburban areas that feed downtown. OKC should already be taking advantage of downtown being a huge draw despite the Metro still being somewhat of a donut, by offering shuttles to major downtown events from Key suburb locations. Shoot, OKC doesn't even have a two way inter-city pax rail service yet (it's only one way, to Ft Worth in the am but NOT to OKC in the am).

Nope, OKC has done NOTHING in my opinion regarding transit and has even cut back on it. Does OKC even have a transit bus to the airport?

So, before we sit here and gloat on what it is to be in such a heavy republican state - we should realize that these are the same bozos who have held OKC back - Istook?, Inhoff, shall I keep going?

To me, this is why OKC changed it's voting pattern this time and had the polls been open longer; there might have been a bit more significance there.

To make a long story short, yes we should take advantage of KC and STL dropping the ball - by getting OKC's act together, put together a package, and get funding for it while Obama is in office. At least OKC can take what would otherwise would have gone to KC and STL. That is the positive I see here.

Instead of sitting around complaining on who is president, why doesn't the conservatives in OKC recognize the HUGE opportunity that exists to FINALLY build the big city infrastructure that we all want regardless of our political affiliations. Obama said rebuilding infrastructure was his way of stimulating the economy (which is TEXTBOOK FROM ECONOMICS, by the way - during a recession, use govt capital projects via war or national infrastructure to provide economic stimulus) - and Obama is going to do that.

So, GET IN LINE - TRY TO BE IN THE FRONT IN FACT!!!!!! And stop complaining.

[soonerguru]

I would think that the people who are opposed to the idea of bigger government would be among those most opposed to furthering the idea of mass public transit and doubly so if it means raising taxes to bring it about.

So are these people against highways? How do they think we pay for highways? Don't they believe in growing the economy by improving the infrastructure and image of the city?

Do they find peace by repeating mindless ideological mantras and making straw man arguments?

[soonerguru]

Kerry,

Obama won every precinct inside the loop in OKC. He outperformed John Kerry in OKC by a country mile.

Shocker: Obama did not do well in Little Dixie.

John McCain lost ground in OKC, Norman and Tulsa compared to W '04.

[southernskye]

Austin voted down their light rail twice. So KC and Stl voting theirs down doesn't mean a whole lot at the moment.

[metro]

HOTROD, some of that is "fact." If you lived here you would have a better pulse for how the local voting public is and all the analysis behind the scenes. Oklahoma's polls have been 7am-7pm for a long-time, nothing new, Obama has the same advantage/disadvantage as McCain. Some states closed their polls earlier. The voters know that and I don't think later hours would have made any difference. Most polling locations I went to to check poll results right at 7pm, were completely dead well before that. Many of Obama supporters voted early in early electiosn or by absentee. I worked on several campaigns and am friends with the Oklahoma Obama campaign manager. Maybe you should read his comments that were posted in the Gazette after the election, then you might see it a different way. Funny thing is, Obama won and the Oklahoma Dems are still mad about Obamas performance. Get over it, he still won. Before you bash the "heavy republican state", let's not forget the state legislature was run by the Dems for about 80 years. I'm not saying what candidate I support, and frankly I wasn't impressed with either one.

As far as the projects go, I agree we should have been more aggressive/progressive. I understand some work is supposively going on behind the scenes, but they should be putting some PR out IMO. It is also my understanding that these projects to present must already be approved projects, ready to go, shovel ready, so creating projects for the sake of creating projects is a moot point at this point. Just the way I understand it from what I've read and people on the inside. I hear ODOT workers are supposively working 80 hours a week trying to get some projects done/approved. Not sure how true that statement is or how much water that holds.

[southernskye]

Does OKC even have a transit bus to the airport?

Nope.

Do you commute by bus?

[mecarr]

I think you are confusing conservatives for anarchist. I might be the most conservative person on this board and I have no problem with government building infrastructure. However, Missouri voted for Obama and against the mass transit plan while Oklahoma voted for McCain and has put mass transit at the top of the list for MAPS 3. You might want to rethink your thought.

Missouri voted for McSame, not Obama.

[bretthexum]

Instead of sitting around complaining on who is president, why doesn't the conservatives in OKC recognize the HUGE opportunity that exists to FINALLY build the big city infrastructure that we all want regardless of our political affiliations. Obama said rebuilding infrastructure was his way of stimulating the economy (which is TEXTBOOK FROM ECONOMICS, by the way - during a recession, use govt capital projects via war or national infrastructure to provide economic stimulus) - and Obama is going to do that.

So, GET IN LINE - TRY TO BE IN THE FRONT IN FACT!!!!!! And stop complaining.

Totally agree. Like it or not, OKC isn't going to become a big league city until we have a much improved transit system. It's not just poor people and bums who use public transit. People who say that probably haven't lived outside of OKC.

I love the idea on the shuttles downtown from the burbs. Start small and build from there. I would love to drive 2 miles to a park and ride in Edmond and take a bus down to the Thunder game. Pay a buck or 2 and save on gas.

[The Old Downtown Guy]

Kerry,

Obama won every precinct inside the loop in OKC. He outperformed John Kerry in OKC by a country mile.

Shocker: Obama did not do well in Little Dixie.

John McCain lost ground in OKC, Norman and Tulsa compared to W '04.

Yes, we're warm, snug and surrounded by kindred spirits inside the bubble . . . it's cold as hell outside though.

And, it's the people inside the bubble that made mass transit a Maps III priority while it's those outside who could care less about anything other than wide roads and cheap gas that drank the Koolaid and voted McPain

Michael

Pray For World Peace . . . pass it on