The American Heartland Theme Park and Resort

[G.Walker]

There are plenty of people who are not "lake" people or outdoors tourists. Mine in particular. We like to go eat, shop, and visit air conditioned indoor attractions. Not everyone wants to spend all day in the sun at the lake & drink beer, or go hiking....lol

[PhiAlpha]

There are plenty of people who are not "lake" people or outdoors tourists. Mine in particular. We like to go eat, shop, and visit air conditioned indoor attractions. Not everyone wants to spend all day in the sun at the lake & drink beer, or go hiking....lol

that means there isn’t much there for YOU right now lol. But just because there aren’t many options like that available now, doesn’t mean there won’t be. If this thing is built any where near the scale proposed and draws that many people, I would imagine that a lot of those types of activities will become available in Vinita, Grove, etc. I could see another Casino resort being built nearby, stores and restaurants opening in Vinita and more development between Vinita and Grand Lake, etc.

[mugofbeer]

I might have missed it in the thread but old timers might remember when a theme park was proposed at Stroud back, l think, in the 70s.

[scottk]

I might have missed it in the thread but old timers might remember when a theme park was proposed at Stroud back, l think, in the 70s.

Some people in Tulsa are still holding their breath over Bells amusement park re-opening since it closed at the fairgrounds.

Wichita had Wild West World that lasted for two months (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_West_World)

People on the board who are old enough to remember Dog Patch USA between Harrison and Eureka Springs tried to compete against Silver Dollar City and changed hands enough times to finally close sometime in the mid 90's. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogpatch_USA)


A new theme park or large attraction, especially in a rural area seems like big risks. However, people drive all the way to rural Kentucky, north of Lexington, for the Ark Encounter, and Branson, despite it's off the beaten path location, Silver Dollar City seems to have continued success, but has 60 years of experience behind them.

[shavethewhales]

^Wild West World was a crazy story. The guy did not actually have the funds to run the park and borrowed money from people at his church to get the place open. He was hoping he'd make enough in the first few weeks to start making payments, lol.

Dog Patch is a very interesting case history that ties into the growth of Branson, SDC, and even Dolly Parton/Dollywood. Did you know Dog Patch almost became Dollywood? They approached her at least. Obviously SDC got in front of her and made a much better case to build DW at a park they operated in Tennessee that at that point was called SDC Tennessee. Dog Patch's downfall was actually their attempt to turn a large part of the property into a ski resort...

I worked with a volunteer group on the Dog Patch property for a couple years before it was leased to a group called Heritage USA, which wanted to put a Christian theme park on the property. They were connected to the Bakers... It didn't pan out to much despite a media blitz and much fan fare. Very weird group - much more openly weird than this one.

But I still say that so far this American Heartland proposal reminds me of DreamVision - right down to the Disney comparisons, multi-billion $ price tag, and the random rural location. The fact that they have apparently purchased the property and have an existing business and some money behind them is a huge difference, however. Still lots to be skeptical of.

[Martin]

I worked with a volunteer group on the Dog Patch property for a couple years before it was leased to a group called Heritage USA, which wanted to put a Christian theme park on the property. They were connected to the Bakers... It didn't pan out to much despite a media blitz and much fan fare. Very weird group - much more openly weird than this one.

i think this was a different 'heritage usa'... the one associated with the bakkers was in south carolina.

[Jake]

There's apparently a Charlotte's Web themed attraction in all of this. Wonder if they've tried to reach out to other existing IPs that are at least somewhat identifiable.

Doubt this all happens, but they aren't Robby Bell, so points for that.

[Urbanized]

The highlighted parcels were owned by 1248 Holdings, LLC, and others related to Gene Bicknell who is affiliated with this group and spoke in the presentation today. They were recently transferred to OGB Holdings, LLC in January 2023, which is also most likely controlled by Gene Bicknell (OGB are his initials) and others affiliated with the project. It looks like they initially purchased a ranch and some surrounding properties for around $7 million between 4/26/22 and 7/6/22 (about $4,000/acre). In total they control 1,760.622 acres.

Attachment 18155
Attachment 18154
Attachment 18156
Attachment 18157

Gene Bicknell is a Kansan who once owned 800 Pizza Hut franchises, the largest number owned by any franchisee. He sold them all in 2006, which embroiled him in a domicile case with the State of Kansas, who claimed he was still a Kansas resident at the time of the sale and therefore owed $43 million in taxes. He claimed to live in Florida, which has no income tax.

Initially courts ruled against him and he had to pay up. But after years of appeal he prevailed early last year, and Kansas had to pay it back with interest, about $63 million total. The initial land purchases in the quoted post above happened within weeks of that settlement, which happened May 15, 2022.

Now, the guy has many other holdings, apparently. Multiple radio stations, entertainment holdings in Branson, etc. He clearly had a lot of resources before he won this lawsuit, so he certainly might have been involved with this deal even without the tax victory. But it seems very possible that this was a project he was working on to find a place to invest his anticipated windfall.

It also feels like locating it in Oklahoma rather than Kansas might be a bit of a middle finger to the Sunflower State, as he’d reportedly exhibited quite a bit of animosity toward the state of Kansas during his years of courtroom fights. I’m guessing the proximity to his holdings in Branson is also viewed by him as a positive rather than a negative.

Here’s an article on his court case, which made national news in the business and legal worlds: https://kansasreflector.com/2022/05/...supreme-court/

[Urbanized]

By the way, “windfall” might be the wrong word. This wasn’t unanticipated income; it was actually his own money being restored, with interest, according to the courts. Just saying he hadn’t had access to that money for years, and after he prevailed he needed to figure out what to do with it all. This project seems like the type of thing that could have been in the back of someone’s mind for many years, and getting a nice chunk of change back may have been the catalyst for dream actualization.

[PhiAlpha]

By the way, “windfall” might be the wrong word. This wasn’t unanticipated income; it was actually his own money being restored, with interest, according to the courts. Just saying he hadn’t had access to that money for years, and after he prevailed he needed to figure out what to do with it all. This project seems like the type of thing that could have been in the back of someone’s mind for many years, and getting a nice chunk of change back may have been the catalyst for dream actualization.

Wonder if he was able to do some kind of 1031 exchange since the money KS returned to him was at least partially related to a real estate sale?

[Urbanized]

I’m no tax expert (I have to pay for those) but that would make sense to me.

[shavethewhales]

i think this was a different 'heritage usa'... the one associated with the bakkers was in south carolina.

LOL, It's quite a story. They were trying to revive Heritage USA at the Dogpatch property. https://www.nwaonline.com/news/2018/...dons-dogpatch/

Very interesting to hear more about Gene Bicknell. Seems like a character. Having lots of money is a good start, securing the land is another good step. Still a LONG way to getting a $2 billion park built. Like has been pointed out earlier, Universal is spending $1 billion on a new park in the middle of Orlando. Why is this twice as much? Surely this will get pared down to a quarter of that at most? With half a billion dollars you can build a substantial park. I remember back in 2003 HFEC built Celebration City at a cost of something like $40 million, but granted they were starting on the bones of an existing park that had infrastructure but not much else.

[fortpatches]

LOL, It's quite a story. They were trying to revive Heritage USA at the Dogpatch property. https://www.nwaonline.com/news/2018/...dons-dogpatch/

Very interesting to hear more about Gene Bicknell. Seems like a character. Having lots of money is a good start, securing the land is another good step. Still a LONG way to getting a $2 billion park built. Like has been pointed out earlier, Universal is spending $1 billion on a new park in the middle of Orlando. Why is this twice as much? Surely this will get pared down to a quarter of that at most? With half a billion dollars you can build a substantial park. I remember back in 2003 HFEC built Celebration City at a cost of something like $40 million, but granted they were starting on the bones of an existing park that had infrastructure but not much else.

With that, I was trying to find something comparable on scale.

The new Universal Park in Frisco, TX is only supposed to by like $500 million and 1/4 the size of Universal Orlanda. This park targets families with small children (and is the test-run for smaller local parks). It will have rides, shows, a 300-room hotel, restaurants, shops and other typical amusement park amenities.

They expect 3.4mil guests per year. (7.5k weekdays and 20k saturdays. (They don't list sundays?). They say it will create "thousands" of jobs, but no number was provided.

Theme Park | Frisco, TX - Official Website (friscotexas.gov)

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^^^^
Wouldn't be surprised if they weren't planning on being open on Sundays, because I am guessing that hiding not far beneath the surface this is a Christian-themed park. It's consistent with some of what I read about Bicknell, and some of the coded language that has been used, and ties to Branson, which has a pretty strong evangelical undercurrent in places. Even the working name, "America's Heartland." So I would suppose (and again this is a guess) that this is being developed as a Disney alternative for folks who have soured on Disney. The centralized "heartland" location works, because it would be possible for 90% of their target demographic to drive, meaning they would not be as dependent upon direct flights as Disney is.

Honestly, it seems like there is probably a robust market for this. That said, while I understand the motivation for not being open on Sundays (if that is true) it would be a massive hit to the potential revenue for a theme park. Sunday is not just another day in the attractions business; it is by far the second highest-grossing day for nearly all attractions, secular or otherwise.

[PhiAlpha]

^^^^^^^^^^
Wouldn't be surprised if they weren't planning on being open on Sundays, because I am guessing that hiding not far beneath the surface this is a Christian-themed park. It's consistent with some of what I read about Bicknell, and some of the coded language that has been used, and ties to Branson, which has a pretty strong evangelical undercurrent in places. Even the working name, "America's Heartland." So I would suppose (and again this is a guess) that this is being developed as a Disney alternative for folks who have soured on Disney. The centralized "heartland" location works, because it would be possible for 90% of their target demographic to drive, meaning they would not be as dependent upon direct flights as Disney is.

Honestly, it seems like there is probably a robust market for this. That said, while I understand the motivation for not being open on Sundays (if that is true) it would be a massive hit to the potential revenue for a theme park. Sunday is not just another day in the attractions business; it is by far the second highest-grossing day for nearly all attractions, secular or otherwise.

Yeah i definitely think there’s a market for it given how probably around half the country feels about Disney right now. Aside from the social/political aspect of it…Disney world/land are extremely expensive to travel to and visit with a family. I’m sure this would be significantly cheaper in travel costs and admission/lodging.

[Bowser214]

Gatlinburg of Oklahoma

[Bunty]

[Bunty]

A more optimistic take:

[BG918]

Where is this actually located near Vinita? Apologies if that was already mentioned.

[PhiAlpha]

Where is this actually located near Vinita? Apologies if that was already mentioned.

I posted map of the parcels they own on page 2 or 3.

[Swake]

I posted map of the parcels they own on page 2 or 3.

Phi's maps showed the area is about halfway between Vanita and Grand Lake. The site is about 4 miles east of I-44 on US-60 at the OK-82 intersection.

[BG918]

I posted map of the parcels they own on page 2 or 3.

Thanks for posting that. I wondered if the lake in rendering might be the rock quarry in that area

I had a house on Grand Lake for many years in Ketchum Cove so I’m familiar with the area often taking to Vinita exit on 60 to get there.

[Plutonic Panda]

TW Article on it: https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/bu...0e77564fe.html

[Plutonic Panda]

Not sure if it has been posted yet but here is the official website: https://www.americanheartlandthemepark.com/

[Plutonic Panda]

People Magazine article: https://people.com/american-heartlan...edium=news_tab

Articles like this make me think there is a real chance this will be pulled off.