Going caffeine free

[Jersey Boss]

https://hawaiicoffee.com/most-caffeinated-countries/
It appears that by and large caffeine is primarily consumed via coffee. If there is any data supporting otherwise I would like to see it. This cite shows the USA is not even in the top 20 for consumption of coffee.

[Pete]

^

Soda, tea, energy drinks... I have no doubt whatsoever that people in the U.S. consume more caffeine than anywhere else and at an ever-increasing rate.

You don't see Big Gulps, sweet tea and a ton of energy drinks in Europe or Australia, although American companies are doing all they can to market in those areas.

To show you the power of big American brands, when I was last in Ireland, all my Irish friends were drinking Budwiser.

[Midtowner]

Somehow, caffeine has become an accepted and even fashionable addiction.

Reminds me of smoking in the 60s (although not as bad for you).

I wasn't around for the 60s, but I can't imagine it's anything like that.

If i have a cup of coffee in my office, I'm not exposing anyone to 2nd or 3rd hand coffee.. unless I'm spilling it.. and really, that only just smells good.

[BoulderSooner]

^

Soda, tea, energy drinks... I have no doubt whatsoever that people in the U.S. consume more caffeine than anywhere else and at an ever-increasing rate.

You don't see Big Gulps, sweet tea and a ton of energy drinks in Europe or Australia, although American companies are doing all they can to market in those areas.

To show you the power of big American brands, when I was last in Ireland, all my Irish friends were drinking Budwiser.

https://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves...-last-century/

coffee and tea usage from 1905-2005

[Pete]

^

The point was about how when certain drugs (nicotine, alcohol, THC) first became socially fashionable, there were plenty of people claiming all these things were good for you, and only with decades of millions consuming did studies start to reveal how generally horrible all of this was for anyone, and for some people down-right catastrophic.

It defies common sense to say, "Oh yes it's a drug, and hundreds of millions are horribly addicted, but it's good for me and who cares teenagers are becoming addicted at increasing rates!"

[BoulderSooner]

^

The point was about how when certain drugs (nicotine, alcohol, THC) first became socially fashionable, there were plenty of people claiming all these things were good for you, and only with decades of millions consuming did studies start to reveal how generally horrible all of this was for anyone, and for some people down-right catastrophic.

It defies common sense to say, "Oh yes it's a drug, and hundreds of millions are horribly addicted, but it's good for me and who cares teenagers are becoming addicted at increasing rates!"

i largely agree with your point ..


but with coffee .. we have hundreds of years of data points now ...

[Pete]

^

But people weren't drinking as much coffee and other caffeine products as now.

And they didn't start in their early teens.

[BoulderSooner]

^

But people weren't drinking as much coffee and other caffeine products as now.

And they didn't start in their early teens.

again as my link showed peak coffee usage was around 1945

[Pete]

^

Again you are arguing a point I'm sure you don't even believe.

There were no such thing as thousands of Starbucks serving huge portions until recently.

When I was in college, absolutely nobody drank coffee -- there wasn't a coffee pot in any dorm room, in the cafeterias, in the student union. No coffee place on Campus Corner, energy drinks didn't exist, I know there wasn't soda in the cafeterias. 3 years in a fraternity house and no one drank coffee or soda.

Now stand in a 7-11 and watch teenagers cart out Monsters and Big Gulps.

[dankrutka]

I think it's fair to argue that there is still much we don't know about the long term effects of caffeine and coffee as it's currently consumed. Long-term longitudinal studies are hard to do. It's also important to recognize that medical professionals are not all experts in all areas, and they're also not always right. I heard doctors share misinformation about COVID. Heck, major health organizations struggled to update their initial belief that COVID spread via fomites when it was quickly evident via spread on cruise ships (and lots of other examples) that COVID spread via aerosols. And we also know until recently some medical professionals repeated the results of a flawed study indicating that a glass of wine a day had health benefits (it doesn't). There's no question that prevailing health advice is not always perfect.

However, I don't think it's fair to compare doctors and tobacco last century with coffee now. Researchers have been and are doing lots of studies on coffee, including controlled studies. When I searched for studies on coffee, I didn't find much evidence that coffee is causing terrible health effects. That doesn't mean I am dismissing the possibility. But I am going to need some stronger evidence before I dismiss the current advice of nutritionists and medical professionals, especially those who specifically study coffee and caffeine.

P.S. I've really enjoyed this thread as it's definitely allowed me to challenge some assumptions, learn more about the topic, and even change my own habits.

[Pete]

^

But to once again clarify, I am talking about large amounts of caffeine consumed at an increasing rate at now very young ages, not just the one cup of black coffee every full-grown adult on this thread drinks; apparently, OKCTalk posters are immune to the huge lines I see everywhere serving mega lattes and none of their children drink Monsters. It must be all those immigrant Fins and Brits!

Everybody says "I have a cup or two" but I bet dollars to donuts if you actually looked at your serving sizes and the mg of caffeine you consume, you'd be shocked. And I know that's true because when anyone tries to stop, they say, "Well I did for a day or two just to prove it to myself. Sure, I had terrible headaches and felt like crap but that's not why I picked it up again." That's straight-up addict talk.

[Celebrator]

Again, stick with good, pure, filtered water as your majority beverage of consumption and you don't need to worry about any of this. Caffeine is an addictive substance and is best avoided altogether. It's just that simple.

[Pete]

^

The problem is, almost the entire country is already addicted and we are now heading into an era where many started from the time they were 12 years old or younger. And the amounts being consumed keep going up and up.

With any addiction, there are degrees. And trying to stop after 20, 30 or 40 years of increasing use becomes next to impossible. So, what, you're just a slave to your addiction? How is that remotely okay?

Look, I bet I consumed less caffeine than most on this thread. 2-3 diet sodas a day, which is like one decent-sized coffee. And quitting has been *hard*, which is why I haven't done it before. The fact that it has been so hard tells me all I need to know.

And BTW, I realize I will probably relapse at some point. I like to think I won't, but that's what all addicts say.

If you want your eyes really opened, read this sub-Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/decaf/

[BoulderSooner]

and is best avoided altogether. It's just that simple.

you present this as a fact ... it is NOT

[dankrutka]

I get your point, Pete. I didn't drink coffee until I was about 30 and up until then only drank pop on occasions, not every day. I definitely didn't grow up drinking caffeine like many young people probably do today. There weren't Starbucks in Tulsa until I believe I was in high school. My personal reference point for this discussion is that I have had 1-2 cups of black coffee every day (down from more cups previously). I'm not sure if you'd consider that an addiction, but I had a relatively easy time breaking the habit. Just at the suggestion of this thread, I gave up coffee for a week with only one bad day. I've now completely recalibrated my habits to have one cup of coffee 2-4 days a week instead of everyday. It really wasn't hard at all for me. But I'm sure a lot of people aren't in the same boat as me. That's probably some important context for the perspective in my posts.

[Pete]

^

You are also a healthy, active person and a runner. Those are big advantages.

Everywhere you look, people have huge coffees in their hands, or energy drinks, HTeaO or Big Gulps. That is all in the last 20 years or so.

There is just no way the current rate of ever-increasing caffeine consumption isn't going to cause a lot of people serious problems down the line. It's amazing how few people are even talking about this topic.

[dankrutka]

True. I'm also the son of a personal trainer and pediatrician who were both triathletes, which means I'm pretty much brainwashed to think about physical and dietary health constantly. lol.

[Celebrator]

you present this as a fact ... it is NOT

Of course it is.

[Celebrator]

^

You are also a healthy, active person and a runner. Those are big advantages.

Everywhere you look, people have huge coffees in their hands, or energy drinks, HTeaO or Big Gulps. That is all in the last 20 years or so.

There is just no way the current rate of ever-increasing caffeine consumption isn't going to cause a lot of people serious problems down the line. It's amazing how few people are even talking about this topic.

Pete, you are really on to something here, and I wish they would do a doc in the vein of Super-Size Me or King Corn on this problem, that, as you say is only going to grow into the future. It's a big problem as you have pointed out. People especially need to talk to their kids about this and warn them along with all of the classic substances that we warn our kids about. And we have to be good examples for them. We don't just keep these products out of our house and tell the kids "No" , we never partake ourselves and we also talk about why they are bad for you , addictive, and how they are peddled to you everywhere you look.

[MagzOK]

Lots of arguing on this page. Maybe everyone could use a cup of coffee.

[bamarsha]

Coffee doesn't even make up half the caffeine consumption in the US (49% per NC Solutions). Soda/coke/pop makes up 28% of caffeine consumption... just think of all the free refills in just about every US restaurant. Tea is only at 12%. To my surprise, energy drinks are only 10%... I assumed that would be much higher (I can't even begin to list all the energy drinks, but even Gatorade has a 200 mg drink).

I have no clue what the point of this is, but my shampoo even has caffeine in it (it's a massive pump of Dove 2-in-1 at Sam's, so it's cheap).

Also to note, this site says nearly 1 in 5 attempted to cut their caffeine intake but couldn't.

[fortpatches]

^

You are also a healthy, active person and a runner. Those are big advantages.

Everywhere you look, people have huge coffees in their hands, or energy drinks, HTeaO or Big Gulps. That is all in the last 20 years or so.

There is just no way the current rate of ever-increasing caffeine consumption isn't going to cause a lot of people serious problems down the line. It's amazing how few people are even talking about this topic.

Interestingly, my normal HTeaO drink has the exact same caffeine content as three diet sodas (and my secondary drink there is under two diet sodas), since I don't drink soda, I guess me and my HTeaO and you with your 2-3 diet sodas consume about the same amount of caffeine.

[Pete]

^

Except I don't drink sodas any more.

And even only consuming 90-135 mg of caffeine daily, it's been challenging to completely quit.

[OkieBerto]

^

Again you are arguing a point I'm sure you don't even believe.

There were no such thing as thousands of Starbucks serving huge portions until recently.

When I was in college, absolutely nobody drank coffee -- there wasn't a coffee pot in any dorm room, in the cafeterias, in the student union. No coffee place on Campus Corner, energy drinks didn't exist, I know there wasn't soda in the cafeterias. 3 years in a fraternity house and no one drank coffee or soda.

Now stand in a 7-11 and watch teenagers cart out Monsters and Big Gulps.

The only data we need to examine is Sales of caffeine-rich products. That will tell us everything we need to know. Monster and Mountain Dew make many different flavors of the same caffeine-filled drink. I don't think you need to explain yourself to these people who do not want to believe the data. In 2022, Monster sold 6.31 billion dollars worth of energy drinks.

[Pete]

^

And lots of places like Dunkin Donuts and Panera Bread are now carrying high-caffeine drinks.

Panera had a lemonade with 390 mg (!) of caffeine until wrongful death lawsuits stopped them.

BTW, Red Bull sells significantly more than Monster. That industry has completely blown up, all in the last 10 years.


Like so many others, I never drank much/any caffeine until somewhat recently, and it just snuck up on me and then took hold.