Something big coming?

[ylouder]

Yet we still manage to give massive tax breaks to oil and gas companies allowing them to pay a fraction of the taxes you and I do...Instead of rebuilding roads and investing in our schools.

[dcsooner]

I disagree. there is a lot of good word of mouth about OKC, every person who visits us has nothing but great things to day and they are first to tell others about it. I would say we have had a drastic increase in the amount of out of state friends coming to visit rather than us visiting them in the past 5 years or so. maybe I travel in less sadistic negative circles but most people I encounter love the city and are excited about its growth and change.

How many visitors are leaving and returning to live in OKC, how many natives are leaving? I visited and my wife (from Indiana) and I decided to retire here and my story is not the exception, but the rule. OKC needs to improve a lot more. You've read about Raleigh's growth, enough said. Raleigh's DT is not as big as OKC, but the ATTITUDE is very different. Take a look at the what can we do to improve OKC thread, much truth can be found in those posts. How many say they are looking to leave OKC

[josh]

I care and it's an issue to me. It would also seem the majority of large employers care seeing as how most of them are bypassing OKC for Dallas and OKC is cheaper. Our highways and roads suck.. Plain and simple. It isn't the only factor , it I assure you, having a nice road and freeway system is looked at by. Ajar employers.

But companies passing up OKC For Dallas isn't because of interchanges. It's a variety of reasons including quality of life, amenities, infrastructure, state business climate, etc.

[coov23]

I just want to add a 'that's what she said' in regards to the thread title. Okay. I'm done. Carry on.

[okclee]

A friend of mine that lives in Manhattan just left OKC after visiting for the first time in 12 years.
I was able to talk him into visiting again, but prior to his visit he was making all the usual OK stereotype jokes. I played along because he is a lifetime New Yorker but he does travel quite a bit only to large cities like Chicago, Boston, LA, San Francisco, etc.

Anyway long story short, he was blown away with Okc. We spent our time in downtown, midtown, bricktown, plaza, paseo, boat district, auto alley, and N.Western areas. After the second day he called his NY friends and girlfriend telling them they need to visit here, even offered to fly his girlfriend out the next day. I was a little shocked with how much he was excited about this city, especially because he is not easily impressed and again he is a stereotype New Yorker, picture a young Joe Pesci wise cracks and all.

[NWOKCGuy]

People should really stop offering their opinions as facts. Just because you feel like OKC is lacking doesn't mean that's reality. I moved here from Austin 8 years ago. I was a 24 year old, gay, democrat and fell in love with this place. I had no problem meeting people and have a tight knit circle of friends - most of whom are also transplants and also love it here, btw. I have 2 very good friends from San Francisco that visited me several times over the past few years and fell in love as well. Both just bought houses and will be living here by the end of this month. Everyone else that visits me has nothing but great things to say about the city. Maybe the problem with OKC isn't OKC, maybe it's just you. If you go into a situation expecting disappointment, that's probably what you're going to get.

The developments that are happening in OKC right are giving OKC great urban fabric and THAT is what make a city feel urban. There are tons of cities bigger than OKC all over the US with better skylines but once you get into downtown, they feel more like NW Expressway.

/rant

[Pete]

The one thing that I think has changed the most in the 20+ years since I moved away is that the City is big and diverse enough now to suit almost anybody.

Yes, certain types are still in the majority but if you don't like soccer moms and Escalade-driving suburbanites (or whatever group happens to annoy you) then it's pretty darn easy to just avoid them altogether.

When I was there last year, I was talking to a handful of very liberal people over beers at Skinny Slim's; I know at least two were affirmed atheists. I asked them point blank how they felt living in a city where most people were the polar opposite in many ways... And all of them said the same thing: It's easy to steer clear and just surround yourself with the like-minded.

OKC is never going to be New York or L.A. or even Austin or Denver. But it has elements of all those places and you can either choose to focus on that, or waste a lot of energy hoping the place suddenly and magically morphs into Seattle.

[Just the facts]

Can we stop passing along this myth? That the city didn't follow through on the Pei Plan and left empty lots is not the fault of I.M. Pei, one of the greatest architects in the world.

If people think the holes in the urban fabric caused by the demo stage of the Pei Plan are bad, we dodge a huge bullet by not building his 'towers in the park' developments - although we are still stuck with a large amount of super-blocks. Pei might have been a so-so architect (he designed a lot of really ugly stuff), but he was really really bad at urban planning.

[PWitty]

*Like* NWOKCGuy and Pete's posts. Well said.

[soonerguru]

Based on EVERYTHING you post on here, Oklahoma City must be the asshole of the world. If the world were given an enema, OKC is where it goes in.

lol

[Teo9969]

If OKC does everything in the borders of NW 13th/Classen/River/I-235 correctly, and if we figure out adequate public transportation, we can compete with almost any Tier II city in the world.

[zookeeper]

If people think the holes in the urban fabric caused by the demo stage of the Pei Plan are bad, we dodge a huge bullet by not building his 'towers in the park' developments - although we are still stuck with a large amount of super-blocks. Pei might have been a so-so architect (he designed a lot of really ugly stuff), but he was really really bad at urban planning.

Pei was a man of his time. What he designed was cutting edge for the days in which he was tops. The John F. Kennedy Library in Boston, Bank of China Tower in Hong Kong, The Denver Mile High back in the '50s, the Myerson Symphony Hall in Dallas, Guggenheim Pavilion at Cedars Sinai, The NY Four Seasons, The Grand Louvre in Paris, the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland, The Chase Tower in Houston, (okay, I hate the Dallas City Hall) . I would disagree he was a "so-so" architect. He won the Pritzker in the late '60s or early '70s and you don't do that without being one of the best. I think one his last great projects was the Modern Art museum in Luxembourg. At 97, he still is a consultant. A brilliant man.

It's easy to look at all of the "park" designs and criticize in retrospect from 2014, but at the time, that was the thing that cities wanted. He designed them and designed them well.

I hate it that because his "Pei Plan" in Oklahoma City to revitalize downtown was barely realized, OKC destroyed buildings for the next phase and then our "leaders" got cold feet about luring retail downtown. That's not Pei's fault. The leaders who chose to let it stagnate to death is where the vitriol should be. Who knows what might have happened? I know Oklahoma City would have had one of the first truly high-end regional malls in the country - and downtown! We don't know - as cities are always in transition, alive - what might have happened. But one thing I DO know is you can't blame Mr. Pei. It's not right.

[Mel]

There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.

That's why you stay out of the Beyond section of Bed, Bath and Beyond. Never open that door.

[ljbab728]

These smaller, infill projects are simply correcting a problem that never should have existed in the first place - a problem created by I.M. Pei.

Actually most of the smaller infill projects are not in any areas that the Pei Plan had any affect on.

[hoya]

If people think the holes in the urban fabric caused by the demo stage of the Pei Plan are bad, we dodge a huge bullet by not building his 'towers in the park' developments - although we are still stuck with a large amount of super-blocks. Pei might have been a so-so architect (he designed a lot of really ugly stuff), but he was really really bad at urban planning.

He is still alive, you know.

[bchris02]

How many visitors are leaving and returning to live in OKC, how many natives are leaving? I visited and my wife (from Indiana) and I decided to retire here and my story is not the exception, but the rule. OKC needs to improve a lot more. You've read about Raleigh's growth, enough said. Raleigh's DT is not as big as OKC, but the ATTITUDE is very different. Take a look at the what can we do to improve OKC thread, much truth can be found in those posts. How many say they are looking to leave OKC

Exactly. Just look at OKCTalk.

This city's biggest cheerleaders on this board are living elsewhere, some having moved very recently and by choice. There are a few more posters that I know are planning to leave soon, and these are positive people, not debbie downers. I know people have different reasons for living where they do, but if OKC is really a city that has "arrived," why are OKCTalk's young, educated cheerleaders leaving by choice for places like Seattle, Denver, Austin, etc? It's easy to admire the progress in OKC and look at it through rose colored glasses when you live in some higher tiered city that already has all the amenities that OKC can possibly get within the next 10-15 years and you don't have to deal with the frustrating things about living here.

How can OKC become a city where people WANT to live in even when presented with other options? It's a real problem that so many people, even those who are happy with the direction that OKC is going, still want to leave for greener pastures. That means, despite all the progress, there is something that OKC is still doing wrong.

As for the attitude you speak of, the only way that is going to change is to have a big transplant boom like Raleigh and Charlotte have seen.

[bchris02]

People should really stop offering their opinions as facts. Just because you feel like OKC is lacking doesn't mean that's reality. I moved here from Austin 8 years ago. I was a 24 year old, gay, democrat and fell in love with this place. I had no problem meeting people and have a tight knit circle of friends - most of whom are also transplants and also love it here, btw. I have 2 very good friends from San Francisco that visited me several times over the past few years and fell in love as well. Both just bought houses and will be living here by the end of this month. Everyone else that visits me has nothing but great things to say about the city. Maybe the problem with OKC isn't OKC, maybe it's just you. If you go into a situation expecting disappointment, that's probably what you're going to get.

The developments that are happening in OKC right are giving OKC great urban fabric and THAT is what make a city feel urban. There are tons of cities bigger than OKC all over the US with better skylines but once you get into downtown, they feel more like NW Expressway.

/rant

Thanks for posting this. It's always great to here stories like this.

[Plutonic Panda]

There will be a couple of flyovers at I-44 & 235 and I-240 & 35. They are not needed anywhere else in our fair city, and it would be an un-necessary expense to build them. Folks would really be pissed at ODOT for squandering money. Some of the best traffic movers are these new single point interchanges that have been built. Go drive over I-40 on Morgan or I-35 and Main in Norman. We are getting our bang for the buck on those.

The single point interchanges are cool, but not for service roads. I agree with you, for where they are being used, they are nice.

I would make I44/235 a 4 stack and I35/240 a five stack. A five stack requires HOV lanes and that is where it would come from.

[Plutonic Panda]

I just drove around downtown Tulsa this past Monday and some of those streets are extremely bad. Try Detroit Ave off the IDL.....not sure if there's a worse street in the state.

Tulsa is a horrible city in general, so it doesn't really count, in my book at least. If you want horrible roads, as has already been said on here, I'm not sure if any city beats Denton, which is north of Dallas.

OKC really needs to improve its roads though. I know so many people that have extremely high-end exotic cars and keep them in other cities due to this fact.

[Plutonic Panda]

How many visitors are leaving and returning to live in OKC, how many natives are leaving? I visited and my wife (from Indiana) and I decided to retire here and my story is not the exception, but the rule. OKC needs to improve a lot more. You've read about Raleigh's growth, enough said. Raleigh's DT is not as big as OKC, but the ATTITUDE is very different. Take a look at the what can we do to improve OKC thread, much truth can be found in those posts. How many say they are looking to leave OKC

THANK YOU! Some people just can't handle the truth and spin it off as being negative, when in actuality, you care about your city, you just have to show some hard loving.

[Plutonic Panda]

But companies passing up OKC For Dallas isn't because of interchanges. It's a variety of reasons including quality of life, amenities, infrastructure, state business climate, etc.

I know for a fact you are wrong. There are so many factors in play, but I swear to it on my life, I know of various companies that have bypassed OKC for two things.... airport and our highway/road network. Both are undesirable and are lacking big time.

[Plutonic Panda]

I love my city and I will go to back for it any day of the week. I have spent countless hours defending it... however, when it comes to transit, we truly do a horrible job with it.

First and foremost, we need to improve all of our interchanges... this doesn't include these crappy half-ass cloverleaf hybrid interchanges, it is time to get with the times and become modern with our highways

2nd- commuter and light-rail

our roads are awful. We need more 6 lane arterial streets... at the very least, medians and turn lanes are badly needed

Our air service has to be expanded. I know it has been said time and time again, a hub is as likely as NASA building a new spaceport here, but surely we can find a way to expand our service somehow.

OKC needs new highway loops and expansions.... but for now, we need to fix our interchanges first and establish commuter rail. Those two things are very important, imo.

[Plutonic Panda]

OKC is never going to be New York or L.A. or even Austin or Denver. But it has elements of all those places and you can either choose to focus on that, or waste a lot of energy hoping the place suddenly and magically morphs into Seattle.

There are a lot of negatives with those cities you posted as well. I'm not trying to point out the negatives and bash the city, I'm trying to point them out and address them by coming up with solutions to overcome them. There is always room for improvement.

Pete, I'm moving to L.A. this March for a school I will be attending, and I have been meaning to post a thread about that, but when I move, I will be a huge cheerleader for OKC. I did the same thing in Dallas. I always told people how wonderful the city is and would promote it in any way I could.

[Teo9969]

Exactly. Just look at OKCTalk.

This city's biggest cheerleaders on this board are living elsewhere, some having moved very recently and by choice. There are a few more posters that I know are planning to leave soon, and these are positive people, not debbie downers. I know people have different reasons for living where they do, but if OKC is really a city that has "arrived," why are OKCTalk's young, educated cheerleaders leaving by choice for places like Seattle, Denver, Austin, etc? It's easy to admire the progress in OKC and look at it through rose colored glasses when you live in some higher tiered city that already has all the amenities that OKC can possibly get within the next 10-15 years and you don't have to deal with the frustrating things about living here.

How can OKC become a city where people WANT to live in even when presented with other options? It's a real problem that so many people, even those who are happy with the direction that OKC is going, still want to leave for greener pastures. That means, despite all the progress, there is something that OKC is still doing wrong.

As for the attitude you speak of, the only way that is going to change is to have a big transplant boom like Raleigh and Charlotte have seen.

To be sure, several of those people you talk about have ties to other parts of the country. It's not so easy as to say "OKC doesn't match up, that's why people are leaving". In reality, places may have more of the "amenities" that are "standard" for the city OKC wants to become, but in reality, a lot of those things are not the determining factors as to why one person lives in one place or another. Sometimes it's unique job opportunities that are only in certain markets, sometimes it's a family decision, sometimes…get this…people just want to see more of the world at some point in their lives.

There are already a decent amount of transplants heading into the area along with higher rates of retention, and it's worth noting that the growth OKC has experienced to this point has preceded Maps III and the huge amount of private investment in the Urban Core.

Edmond and Norman are 2 very strong suburbs that any city in the nation would be glad to have that will continue to serve the Metro area very well.

OKC's economy is as strong and diverse as it has ever been in its history, and though there is more work to do in that area, there has been and continues to be discernible progress.

OKC is for really the first time in its history, finding things that bring national attention. On a smaller scale, having something like the SkyDance Bridge on I-40 gives people making a cross-country journey something to remember the city by. On a medium scale, you have something like the OK River. It already hosts major regional/national rowing tournaments, and is really only in its infancy in terms of development, things to do, and overall excitement about the district…and it's not so far away from housing a US Olympic facility. On a large scale, OKC has the Thunder.

All these things contribute to a city that is well on its way to becoming an upper Tier-III city…but the changes don't happen overnight. And yet…as behind as we are as a city, somehow we've managed to be one of the fastest growing in the US…In that way, I don't understand the complaining. In 5 years when Maps III is almost done, all the new housing downtown, and an overall better developed city vis-a-vis the previous 25 years…OKC is going to be sitting quite pretty with very strong growth numbers.

[Plutonic Panda]

Edmond and Norman are 2 very strong suburbs that any city in the nation would be glad to have that will continue to serve the Metro area very well.

Guthrie and MWC are great assets as well. Even though Guthrie is a ways from the core, is could turn out to be a fairly significant tourist attraction and grow from itself becoming a valuable asset. Yukon is also growing at a fast rate, so we could see Yukon becoming a major suburb for the OKC Metro. Of course, MWC can become great to, they just need some major TLC.