Electric Vehicles

[TheTravellers]

I'm having trouble finding the information on the OK tax credit for buying an electric vehicle. Where is this info?

Links to the statutes, etc. are here:

https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/all?state=OK

[Jersey Boss]

But, owning an e-bike AND a car - even an electric one - aren’t mutually exclusive. And even if you only like the e-bike enough to replace SOME of your trips in a car…there is carbon benefit AND an exercise/public health benefit.

Also electric motorcycles such as the LIVE WIRE by HD should not be excluded.

[oklip955]

Not practical for everyone. What is the range on them? If you want to go to Sams club for one item as I have already posted, the roads are getting very unsafe for bikes, walking I would guess electric bikes too. Also about the range, how do you recharge them if you are low on battery and far from home?

[oklip955]

Do that use the same chargers as electric cars?

[Elrenogolf]

Links to the statutes, etc. are here:

https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/all?state=OK

This is the first I have heard of this. Looks like it may be claimed on Form 567-A, not sure. Form 567-A

Even Tesla's website which looks to be very comprehensive doesn't mention this credit. You would think a Tesla would qualify but who knows. https://www.tesla.com/support/incentives

[shawnw]

Not practical for everyone. What is the range on them? If you want to go to Sams club for one item as I have already posted, the roads are getting very unsafe for bikes, walking I would guess electric bikes too. Also about the range, how do you recharge them if you are low on battery and far from home?

Hi. Electric bike rider here. Unless you have a crazy long commute, an ebike will work great for you range wise. I have a 7 mile each way daily commute to work, so 14 miles round trip. Even on max assist my range is 25-30 miles, but usually it's more like 40-50 at lower assist levels. That said there are SO many ebike models out there with so many variables in terms of battery size, motor size, bike weight, and thus range (there are even some that can take two batteries for extended range), you'll need to seek out what would work best for your needs. But I bet there's a solution out there that suits you.

If you're coming from Edmond or Norman it'll be tighter depending on many factors. For example, when I ride from downtown OKC to my grandson's soccer games in Edmond, that's 30 miles round trip and there are lots of hills, so I usually do have it on max assist and I'm usually empty when I get home. Fortunately, unlike ecars, you can either buy extra batteries or extra chargers. I keep a charger at work in case I forgot to charge at home and need a boost to get home. The chargers plug into standard outlets (they're not that different from a laptop charger). But there have been a few times I've run out of juice due to my own error. Fortunately, I'm on a bicycle! Ebikes are still bicycles and you can still ride them without the juice, you'll just sweat more. I've ridden up to 75 miles in one trip on my ebike without using the assist.

I ride on all roads in OKC (have put more than 7,000 miles on OKC streets in the 2.5 years I've had it). It's doable if you want to do it. There are also cargo bikes for those sams trips. There are several locals that have them and use them for such purposes. I do my grocery shopping with my ebike, but I normally can get my weekly needs into my two rear panniers. If I need more room I have front panniers as well. I have some other specialty attachments that let me carry pretty sizeable cargo for a non-cargo bike. There are also inexpensive trailers you can attach if you need to haul more but don't want a dedicated cargo bike. Having ridden as far north as Covell in Edmond, as far south as OU campus, as far east as Luther, and as far west as Yukon (all from downtown OKC), there is nowhere in the metro I feel I can't go.

Oh by the way there were only 5 days this winter I didn't ride due to weather, and on those days I took the bus. Every other day I rode to work. Agree it's not for everyone. But it can definitely be done by a lot more people than are doing it today. The great thing is there's a local community willing to help those willing to try.

[TheTravellers]

... Fortunately, unlike ecars, you can either buy extra batteries or extra chargers. I keep a charger at work in case I forgot to charge at home and need a boost to get home. The chargers plug into standard outlets (they're not that different from a laptop charger). ...

Not quite true - you can actually buy extra chargers for a car. My MINI came with a 10A or so charger, and I just bought a 32A charger so that it'll charge faster. Once I get the junction box wired for the 32A one, I can carry the 10A one with me and use it anywhere because it plugs into a standard 110V outlet (the 32A one uses a NEMA 14-50 plug).

[oklip955]

Shawnw thank you for your reply. Its an eye opener for me. I would have thought that 10 to 15 mile would be the range. Ok I can see this as a commute vehicle with that range and also to make a quick trip to the grocery store. As I said I had no idea of the range.

[shawnw]

Education is half the battle. Highly recommend going to some bike shops and test riding. I was a bit of a naysayer until I tried it.

[shawnw]

Not quite true - you can actually buy extra chargers for a car. My MINI came with a 10A or so charger, and I just bought a 32A charger so that it'll charge faster. Once I get the junction box wired for the 32A one, I can carry the 10A one with me and use it anywhere because it plugs into a standard 110V outlet (the 32A one uses a NEMA 14-50 plug).

I stand corrected, was based on outdated info.

[aDark]

If anyone out there is considering the electric bike I highly advise you give it a try. I bought one a year ago and it is an absolute blast. 35+ miles of range on a single charge, and I bet I'm realistically getting closer to 45 miles per charge. I live within 3 miles of downtown and I will ride my bike to Scissortail or Midtown for events. Parking is no longer a problem and I believe my commute time is 10 minutes on the e-bike versus 7 minutes in the car. If you're going down on a busy day (like OKC Memorial Marathon or Arts Fest) I believe the time spent not parking more than makes up for the extra minute or two.

Plus, it's just incredibly fun.

[shartel_ave]

Aren't electric vehicles fossil fuel vehicles? I mean, where do they think that electricity comes from? Unicorns? A majority of it comes from coal.

you beat me to it haha

According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA), fossil fuel–based power plants—burning coal, oil, or natural gas—create nearly 60 percent of the nation's power, while nuclear power accounts for about 20 percent.

[catch22]

you beat me to it haha

According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA), fossil fuel–based power plants—burning coal, oil, or natural gas—create nearly 60 percent of the nation's power, while nuclear power accounts for about 20 percent.

That ratio is changing every day as more and more solar and wind farms are built, residential and commercial users install their own solar, and coal plants are replaced with natural gas. It is still vastly more efficient to electrically charge 100 vehicles, vs those 100 vehicles powering themselves. The economy of scale of large turbine electrical plants is impossible to meet via single engines.

I reference the infamous meme that makes the rounds every couple of months: The electric charging station being powered by a diesel generator. As funny and ironic as it is, that is still more efficient than all of those vehicles generating their own power. Plus it's just one static source of emissions versus multiple sources dispersing pollution everywhere.

Again, I always reference that I own 3 ICE vehicles. 1 of which is not legal in California (32-year-old carburated motorcycle)...electric isn't there for me yet, but am very quickly running out of reasons to not do it, myself.

[Pete]

Once the ranges get up closer to 1,000 miles, I'll be in.

Most are only around 200-300 which means you have to stop repeatedly on a long road trip, and given charging times (especially if you have to wait behind others) that's really inconvenient.

In a two-car household, it makes much more sense. One ICE for long trips and one electric for everything else.


But I'm not going to own two cars so I'll continue to wait. My car is in great shape and has long been paid off, so I'll just continue to watch as things rapidly evolve. It's amazing how much has changed in just the last few years and I look forward to even better, more efficient options in the near future.

[David]

you beat me to it haha

According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA), fossil fuel–based power plants—burning coal, oil, or natural gas—create nearly 60 percent of the nation's power, while nuclear power accounts for about 20 percent.

Wow, we should definitely transition the energy grid too, I can't believe nobody thought of that before.

[shawnw]

Once the ranges get up closer to 1,000 miles, I'll be in.

What non-electric car has a 1000 mile range tho? Most cars are 500 or less (SUVs like 300).

[Pete]

What non-electric car has a 1000 mile range tho? Most cars are 500 or less (SUVs like 300).

Stopping for gas anywhere is easy and fast.

Recharging is neither.

[Snowman]

you beat me to it haha

According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA), fossil fuel–based power plants—burning coal, oil, or natural gas—create nearly 60 percent of the nation's power, while nuclear power accounts for about 20 percent.

Though If you look at the numbers there has been a lot of change over just one decade. Coal in the US is around half of what it was a decade ago. Renewables have been on the rise, now providing more than coal. Natural Gas has risen too, largely as it displaced more coal than renewables have so far. We also have much longer proven reserves of natural gas, and it seems is a much more stable price.

There is also aspects that national percentage does not show, like you get around twice as much energy out of fuel burned in a power plant than you do in a car engine, due to economies of scale and common techniques like routing the steam produced through multiple turbines.

[shartel_ave]

That ratio is changing every day as more and more solar and wind farms are built, residential and commercial users install their own solar, and coal plants are replaced with natural gas. It is still vastly more efficient to electrically charge 100 vehicles, vs those 100 vehicles powering themselves. The economy of scale of large turbine electrical plants is impossible to meet via single engines.

I reference the infamous meme that makes the rounds every couple of months: The electric charging station being powered by a diesel generator. As funny and ironic as it is, that is still more efficient than all of those vehicles generating their own power. Plus it's just one static source of emissions versus multiple sources dispersing pollution everywhere.

Again, I always reference that I own 3 ICE vehicles. 1 of which is not legal in California (32-year-old carburated motorcycle)...electric isn't there for me yet, but am very quickly running out of reasons to not do it, myself.

I hope I live to see the day when oil/coal/fossilfues/nuclear is no longer needed. I guess my pessimism is due to big oil and the lobbying power they have thanks to "citizens united"

[gopokes88]

Though If you look at the numbers there has been a lot of change over just one decade. Coal in the US is around half of what it was a decade ago. Renewables have been on the rise, now providing more than coal. Natural Gas has risen too, largely as it displaced more coal than renewables have so far. We also have much longer proven reserves of natural gas, and it seems is a much more stable price.

There is also aspects that national percentage does not show, like you get around twice as much energy out of fuel burned in a power plant than you do in a car engine, due to economies of scale and common techniques like routing the steam produced through multiple turbines.

Renewables will hit a cap at some point simply because the intermittency issue isn't solvable on the short and medium time-frames. The renewable market is undergoing significant commodity challenges that aren't going away as demand outpaces supply. Energy density is a massive factor. Not to mention the environmental impact of renewables has largely been ignored, but won't be forever. (Rare earth mineral mining, sheer volume of land needed, bird destruction, soil degradation) There are trade offs to everything. Renewables will be no exception.

Natural gas powerplants use a combined cycle turbine. That's what your referring too when you say "multiple turbines". The first cycle burns the gas and spins the turbine. The second cycle takes the heat from the burned gas, makes steam and powers another one. Electrical efficiency rises to 66%. In other words, 66% of the potential energy from the natural gas is converted to electricity, the rest is heat waste. (33% on a normal turbine)

Some recent examples
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...?sref=VEjJXJjm
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...&sref=VEjJXJjm
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...hs-settlement/ (people will get mad about this one day)
https://twitter.com/JohnLeePettim13/...msVIu9KBw_JhoA

[mugofbeer]

Stopping for gas anywhere is easy and fast.

Recharging is neither.

It's just a change to routine. Technology will improve.

[zefferoni]

I'd like to get an electric car at some point for putting around town, and keep the truck for camping/fishing trips out of town. Gotta pay the truck off first, though.
Dumb question - I know solar panels on an electric vehicle could never keep the battery topped off while driving, but are there any manufacturers looking at putting panels on cars for trickle charging while parked somewhere? Are they still too heavy?

[catch22]

They don’t provide enough amperage to charge the batteries efficiently. The roof space of a Tesla has enough to probably reliable charge an iPad or a mobile battery bank.

[jccouger]

Once the ranges get up closer to 1,000 miles, I'll be in.

Most are only around 200-300 which means you have to stop repeatedly on a long road trip, and given charging times (especially if you have to wait behind others) that's really inconvenient.

In a two-car household, it makes much more sense. One ICE for long trips and one electric for everything else.


But I'm not going to own two cars so I'll continue to wait. My car is in great shape and has long been paid off, so I'll just continue to watch as things rapidly evolve. It's amazing how much has changed in just the last few years and I look forward to even better, more efficient options in the near future.

Think of all the time you save during the year not having to stop every single week to get gas. Once a week 15 minutes at a time to refuel your car = 13 hours a year at gas stations.

Not to even mention the savings in money from fuel & maintenance.

That tradeoff really isn't worth adding an hour or 2 on a a few long road trip when you need to stop and eat, use the restroom or just unwind from road stress anyway? Seems like you are weighing the long travel inconvenience too heavily. Unless of course if you make long distance travel trips very often.

Also if you haven't test driven an electric car I'd recommend doing so. The power in acceleration is mind opening.

[jccouger]

Dp