Will Rogers World Airport

[catch22]

I have heard some rumblings that AAR (heavy maintenance contractor (private/commercial aviation) along Meridian Ave. at the airport) is interested/has made an offer to buy or takeover the OKC operation. Don't know if there is any truth to that at all.

[OUman]

^Takeover the operation as in operation of the airport itself?

[catch22]

The ARINC operation; replying to what Pete was referring to.

[OUman]

Ahh, ok. Yeah I guess I should have checked the previous posts, my brain was fried after studying for two programming tests this week and that apparently carried over.

[Pete]

Looks like they are set to move forward with the $70 million airport expansion.

RFP's going out soon.

[warreng88]

So, will the first phase be to build the new baggage area, then demo the old one to add gates?

[catch22]

All of this is new construction. The cargo facility, ground equipment fuel, tritulator, to the east will all be demolished to make way.

No existing baggage areas will be demo'd.

Some other updates:
United was slated to move to gate 11 in June, looking like July actually. Within the next few weeks should start the move from gate 8.

The new consolidated TSA checked baggage screening area is well under construction. Currently working on the west end.

The airport installed new FIDS monitors throughout the terminal. They are about twice the size. Easier to see flight info now.

The EXCELLENT work the city paid for to repaint the aircraft parking lines a few months ago is already completely worn off in some areas. Gate 8 already has concrete showing through the paint. When they actually took pride in their work they laid down really thick paint in several layers. Gate 10 lasted about 4 years before it began to fade. This new paint is one layer thick and already completely faded in a lot of areas. And really they have not even completed the paint project yet. They still have to paint the vehicle driving lanes. Frustrating use of taxpayer dollars to do it so cheap it will need to be done again soon.

[Plutonic Panda]

Just found out you can pay for parking at Tulsa's airport with a OTA Toll Tag. Why don't they do that for Will Rodgers airport hourly parking?

[catch22]

Because our airport management is out of touch, uncreative, and not interested in keeping up with modern times.

[bombermwc]

Well in order to do that, you have to pay for the infrastructure to put it in. That means they either have to charge those customers more to pay for it, or just eat the cost. The turnpike authority certainly isn't going to just give them hardware/software to do it. Somewhere along the way, a service fee has to be collected to maintain it. Otherwise, it's just an expense to the airport. Would you be willing to pay more with a toll tag than if you gave cash to the attendant just so you didn't have to stop? It might be that the answer is yes because you already made that decision when you bought a pikepass (but that one doesn't cost more).

The savings at the airport only comes if enough people do it to reduce the number of attendants having to work. The turnpike hasn't really even been able to do that yet. The volume in places like Dallas are the only places that it works out that way, and heck they just did away with attendants altogether. Still wondering how the cost/revenue balances out for North Dallas. Anyway...I digress...

So what you see as an uncreative unmodern outlook, I see as simply a matter of keeping costs in line with revenue intake.

[catch22]

The airport has long been (if always) in a financially stable condition. Adding something to improve convenience for the citizens does not have to be necessarily financially neutral.

I hate this idea that government services need to be ran like private enterprise. They serve two separate roles. Adding modern day convenience didn't seem to be an issue up the turnpike (see what I did there?) in Tulsa, as Tulsa has the OTA payment method.

[bombermwc]

But does that mean they should do something they know will be a financial loss? And does it really take you that much longer to have to go through the payment booth? I sit behind far more cars on the turnpike than I've ever even seen in the entire airport booth at one time. For me it just seems like the benefit that comes from it is so minimal that it doesn't make sense. Most people do not have a pikepass either, so you're limiting your pool of customers that would even make use of the thing.

Remember, you either will have to stop somewhere in a line to feed your ticket back to a machine and have your pikepass read (to minimize the number of readers that have to be installed) or you'll have to install a reader at ever single car entry point to track the entrance day/time of the car so it can be charged properly by the reading on the exit from the area. And then the staffing of the officer to catch the runners like you see at every toll plaza So with either method, you are still going to have to sit in line at some point...it would just be a slightly faster line. That reduced benefit is why I just don't see the point. It's like how they don't take Discover cards. I don't get to collect points on my card when I park because I have to use my debit card instead. For them, they just don't see enough Discover to pay to accept it. Slight inconvenience for me, but does it really change much.? Nah.

[catch22]

The operation of the airport bathrooms is a loss generating venue, the operation f the information booths is a loss-generating venue, the operation of many things at an airport are loss-generating.

An unmanned PikePass lane (like seen at hundreds of turnpike entrances and exit) would not generate significant cost. And you would need a maximum of 7 or so readers, and 1 exit reader.

There are actually significant lines at night, usually around 11-1230 at night there can be as many as 15-20 cars in the queue to pay the attendant.

You could even charge a 50 cent or dollar premium added to PikePass users to help cover the cost.

But again, city services are not in the business of profitability. The city is in the business of providing services that the private sector cannot or will not do profitably. Adding convenience for citizens is a worthwhile venture.

[ljbab728]

It's like how they don't take Discover cards. I don't get to collect points on my card when I park because I have to use my debit card instead. For them, they just don't see enough Discover to pay to accept it. Slight inconvenience for me, but does it really change much.? Nah.

Hmmm. I normally use cash and it seems to work fine. Also, I don't think I have ever had to wait in a line there for more than a couple of minutes at the most. If they decided to offer that, fine, but it's just not an issue to me.

[bombermwc]

Jibjab - that's what im saying. it's simply not an issue at will rogers and definitely not enough to put the money into it.

Catch - equating a bathroom use to this isn't a fair comparison either. Bodily functions are not the same as paying for a convenience. You aren't going to piss in the middle of the floor are you? And you know Ryan Air charges for bathroom access? In South America, you often pay for toilet paper. And i dont think you realize how much the equipment costs. There's maintenance on the hardware, software and it's maintenance, pikepass is going to charge a feel to integrate with their system, development of the code to interface the systems, support contracts to maintain everything. It's far more than just slapping a reader up on the thing. You made my argument for me with the 50 cent thing. If it costs me 50 cents more to have the convenience of a quicker line, then fine. If the pikepass holders are willing to do that, then by all means put that crap in there and let them pay for it. But unless they are willing to do that, it's a significant expense that the airport would incur, that gives them no benefit. They don't exactly care if you have to wait 2 more minutes at the toll plaza.

[catch22]

If it can work in Tulsa, why not OKC? Bomber? Do we have a lower standard for convenience ls in OKC? Are the stereotypes of OKC true where people are simple, not adaptive to change/new ideas?

Airports are continuously fighting to hold their relevance over driving and rail, and ease of use and convenience is a big item airports are working on. Adding convenience does not need to be a business decision for a public entity. If it improves the quality of life of the citizens and is not unreasonable in cost, it should not be an issue.

I'd be interested in hearing how much of a burden the PikePass integration is for Tulsa, an airport with much smaller volume of traffic, and a huge competing private owned parking center taking the majority of the airport parking revenue.

[adaniel]

Hmmm. I normally use cash and it seems to work fine. Also, I don't think I have ever had to wait in a line there for more than a couple of minutes at the most. If they decided to offer that, fine, but it's just not an issue to me.

On the flip side of that argument, on a recent trip back from DFW, there was a traffic jam of nearly a half mile because the toll tag readers broke on the north entrance to the airport. By the time we got to the pay plaza, the attendees had just lifted the gates and were waiving people through. I can't imagine how much $$ they lost. From what people at work told me, this is not uncommon.

Maybe its just my own experience, but I knew several OKC "lifers" who never had a pikepass. I myself never had one for years and was just fine. Unlike Tulsa and NEOK, where toll roads are far more common and I would say the vast majority of people probably have one. Given that reading equitment is actually quite expensive and you will still have to deal with OTA (from what I hear they are not the easiest agency to deal with), there would need to be enough use to actually justify the initial expense. If pikepass use in OKC and western OK is not that high, is it worth it to WR?

[bombermwc]

Good point adaniel. If you look at the roads in Tulsa, you have to pay a toll to get in/out of Tulsa in any direction. And even then, some of the more populated areas are more easily accessible via a toll road than a highway. And that's really another part of my argument against it at WRWA...the population base that does not own a pass.

Catch, obviously you feel very passionately about this. I'm really indifferent. I dont own a pass and probably never will just because the 2 or 3 times a year i use a turnpike (since you dont have to use one IN okc), doesn't make it worth my time for the small convenience...to me. My parents have one and they travel about as often as i do on a turnpike. They made a different decision so hey, everyone views it differently...and in case of the airport it's the same way. Some people would be in love with the idea, others just dont care. I was simply trying to look at it from the airport's perspective in how it is a lot of effort for not a lot of return. Basically, they don't care if you wait 10 minutes in a toll line. But much like a fast food line, are those 10 minutes really going to kill us? We live in such a fast-paced world, maybe we should view that as a time to relax after a traveling. I always feel a little "ahhh" when i get back in my own car. I dont know...probably a bit too fluffy of a feeling to be reality :P

[Plutonic Panda]

Well, I'm going to agree with Catch22 on this one.... it seems like a no brainer putting scanners in there to read pike passes.

[catch22]

I'm not passionate about the idea.

I am passionate about improving the services offered to our citizens. There's nothing wrong with keeping up with the Jones' when it comes to citizen services.

[Snowman]

If it can work in Tulsa, why not OKC? Bomber? Do we have a lower standard for convenience ls in OKC? Are the stereotypes of OKC true where people are simple, not adaptive to change/new ideas?

...

I'd be interested in hearing how much of a burden the PikePass integration is for Tulsa, an airport with much smaller volume of traffic, and a huge competing private owned parking center taking the majority of the airport parking revenue.

It may have been a test for if it was viable/cost effective and found out it was not. It could have been something that their city government or airport authority thought was worth subsidizing for the convenience. There may have been a clash of management styles or personalities or contract terms, most gov agencies want to be as independent as possible and if you thing getting one agency to do anything is slow, just try getting something done when it takes action by multiple of them.

[bombermwc]

I'm not passionate about the idea.

I am passionate about improving the services offered to our citizens. There's nothing wrong with keeping up with the Jones' when it comes to citizen services.

If they make economic sense...not just to "keep up".

[catch22]

Citizen services are about providing citizens with a service, not an economic gain for the public entity.

Public entities are to provide services that aren't economical for the private sector. If our airport was run by a private company, you would have a point.

We are spending $70,000,000 on a 3 gate concourse expansion, I think we can come up with the several thousand dollars to install PikePass readers.

In the airport's RFP for the terminal expansion, the airports mission statement included a line to the effect of "maintaining a modern airport with modern day amenities". Automated payment is something that Tulsa is doing, and it's something we should do.

[Jersey Boss]

Another opportunity to not have interaction with a human being,? Meh.

[ljbab728]

I was at a luncheon today hosted by Mark Kranenburg and Karen Carney introducing the OKC - CLT nonstop service. I thought about asking about the toll readers but it just didn't seem important enough to me to bring it up. He did discuss the expansion plans and they hope to have it basically completed in 3 to 4 years. I asked him about space to eventually have a customs and immigration facility and he assured me that it is being planned for. The new baggage system should be complete in a few months and then they will change the airline check in counters back to the normal configuration.