Is there room for the NFL in Oklahoma?

[emw1973]

WONT work, PERIOD.

[Laramie]

Just throwing some things out there. These things were being discussed back in Feb., 1967 (Oklahoman, "Huge City Stadium Asked."); E. L. 'Jim' Roederoer was running for mayor. He first proposed to build a 75,000-100,000 seat stadium on the Fairgounds; parking, land and most utilities were present. If we build today, downtown is a better option. An open-air outdoor stadium in 1967-70 would have cost $5 to $7 million dollars at the time. I see the attitude among some Oklahomans hasn't changed. The longer we put things off, the more costly they become as we wait until the next decade to begin planning. A 75,000-seat stadium today is going to cost in excess of $200 million and that is without all the bells & whistles. Our 13,500-seat Bricktown Ballpark cost some $30 million.

Oklahoma City (Central City) is among a few major cities which doesn't have a stadium (inner-city), university or city owned seating over 20,000. This is sad! Taft Stadium's capacity is 14,500. Bricktown Ballpark's capacity is 13,500. The Zoo Amphitheater can accommodate 18,000. Chesapeake Energy Arena seats roughly 18,500.

Here are the 50 largest cities in the U. S. (Central city population): http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0763098.html

The following cities listed among the top 50 do not have stadiums seating over 20,000 inside the central city:

1. Oklahoma City
2. Long Beach
3. Virginia Beach

Norfolk-Virginia Beach & Oklahoma City are among the largest metropolitan areas without any large outdoor stadium within the central core the city.

[MikeOKC]

I think SoonerDave very methodically made the points as to why this is a bad idea. Did you read the Cincy story from the WSJ? Sad.

We also can't do things just because "everybody has them." If 47 of the top 50 cities have something we don't, there are probably 47 good reasons why. (Again see the Cincinnati story.) There might also be 47 reasons why we should have this or that. But you select your public development investments based on realistic needs/demands, etc. and right now - a large stadium is just not a priority.

[Laramie]

Thanks for the link MikeOKC,

I missed (overlooked) it in SoonerDave's posting.

Cincy story: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...editorsPicks_2

Mistakes like this could happen here. Property owners had to foot this bill.

We definitely don't want to build a 'white elephant' in Oklahoma City or overextend our market; especially in light of the fact that many of the MAPS projects have benefited the city; these projects were very successful as we kept the momentum going. Maybe the NFL is not a good idea for Oklahoma. We wouldn't want to do like Hartford, CN (NHL Whalers) and bring in a franchise only to lose it to a city like Raleigh (NHL Carolina Hurricanes) which was ready for relocation.

As I continued to research this NFL in Oklahoma idea; I discovered that we would be the smallest state by far in population (As pointed out by an earlier poster) to house an NFL franchise even if we were to top 4.2 million in 2020. We do have corporate support; however, as a city we are on the lower end of family & per capita income.

This city does need some type of stadium facility capable of exceeding 20,000 for football and/or soccer. Our target date of 2017 will tell us more as it will be time for a MAPS IV (extension). It is sad that we don't have a decent football/soccer stadium in this city. MLS might be on our radar.

[Jersey Boss]

Thanks for the link MikeOKC,

I missed (overlooked) it in SoonerDave's posting.

Cincy story: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...editorsPicks_2

Mistakes like this could happen here. Property owners had to foot this bill.

We definitely don't want to build a 'white elephant' in Oklahoma City or overextend our market; especially in light of the fact that many of the MAPS projects have benefited the city; these projects were very successful as we kept the momentum going. Maybe the NFL is not a good idea for Oklahoma. We wouldn't want to do like Hartford, CN (NHL Whalers) and bring in a franchise only to lose it to a city like Raleigh (NHL Carolina Hurricanes) which was ready for relocation.

As I continued to research this NFL in Oklahoma idea; I discovered that we would be the smallest state by far in population (As pointed out by an earlier poster) to house an NFL franchise even if we were to top 4.2 million in 2020. We do have corporate support; however, as a city we are on the lower end of family & per capita income.

This city does need some type of stadium facility capable of exceeding 20,000 for football and/or soccer. Our target date of 2017 will tell us more as it will be time for a MAPS IV (extension). It is sad that we don't have a decent football/soccer stadium in this city. MLS might be on our radar.

With such a low per capita in earnings when compared to other states nationally, just how many could even support an NFL team? At least the NBA does not have seat licenses and the college teams don't have an exhibition season of meaningless games that force one to pay the same price as regular season games.

The Hartford Whalers though are not a real good example as that was a team from the WHA that was absorbed by the NHL. It was not originally an NHL team and was not in a NHL market. The NHL fans in that area already had the Bruins or the Rangers to identify with.

[SoonerBoy18]

If you look at how fast Oklahoma City is growing, I could see us getting an NFL but probably 40-60 years from now.

[metro]

WONT work, PERIOD.

This!!! I don't see why people keep beating this dead horse. NFL won't happen for at least 25 years. Not enough population or corporate money or most important, TV Market.

[metro]

Laramie, we DON'T have the corporate support you think. The NFL needs MUCH more corporate sponsors than NBA. We simply don't have enough Fortune 500 companies in the entire state to make NFL work

[rcjunkie]

This!!! I don't see why people keep beating this dead horse. NFL won't happen for at least 25 years. Not enough population or corporate money or most important, TV Market.

While I personally don't think it will happen, this is the same BS people said about the NBA 8--10 years ago.

[MikeOKC]

While I personally don't think it will happen, this is the same BS people said about the NBA 8--10 years ago.

You are right, no question. But, I read on the forum the other day (somebody said it perfectly), so I'll paraphrase....You have to admit we "backed in" to the NBA. It was a perfect storm (no pun intended - seriously) with Katrina and the temporary re-location to the Ford Center. The success was a big surprise and I think even George Shinn would have preferred to keep the team here. Take away that equation, and the perfect storm continued with the PBC making the moves and all that ensued in Seattle. Whether it was an unfair ploy with an end-result pre-ordained, will be debated within sports business circles for years. The bottom line is that we didn't really "attract" interest in the typical fashion that a city gains attention as a potential NBA market.

With all that said, the success of the team (financially) may also be a surprise to those who thought we'd never get a team in the first place. On that score - they've been proved wrong. But on the first part - they weren't really proved wrong, it really was a perfect storm that brought the NBA to Oklahoma City. I firmly believe that without Katrina - no NBA in OKC today; we'd still not be a serious player on the radar screen.

[Pete]

Also it must be said about the Thunder, it sure helps they have turned out to be one of the best teams in the NBA.

You also have to consider that the deep pockets that brought in the NBA would be much less inclined to do so and detract from college football, as many of them are big-time boosters.

[Laramie]

Pete, two Thunder owners are among OU's biggest boosters, and Bennett's boyhood dream was to own the Dallas Cowboys and move them to Oklahoma City.

There is corporate support here; we just need more population to support the NFL longterm.

There are two Fortune 500 companies (Devon, Chesapeake) in OKC and two (ONEOK, WILLIAMS) in Tulsa. New Orleans only has one Fortune 500 company. Yet there are some powerful players in Oklahoma City like OG&E (former Fortune 500 company) and Sonic Corporation.

Somehow Oklahomans totally underestimate what this state possesses.

Back in the early 1980s when Oklahoma City was awarded the Olympic Festival '89; we were looking at having some type of World's Fair Exposition or the Olympic '89 Festival. People here assumed that Oklahoma City's Fairgounds was too small to host the World's Fair.

We discovered that Knoxville's World Fair was held on 68 acres; the Oklahoma State fairgrounds in OKC has over 400-plus acres and would have been the largest land available for a World's Fair.

We assume that we don't match up with other states. Many said that Gaylord Family Oklahoma Memorial Stadium was too small to temporarily host an NFL franchise. The average NFL franchise seats around 68,000. OU's stadium has a capacity slightly in excess of 84,000 and would make a temporary home. Universities don't want the NFL around and wouldn't allow any lengthy agreements for a franchise to use their stadiums.

We have got to channel our thinking.

Right now, it would be risky to bring an NFL franchise to the Oklahoma City area. We can't support both the NBA and NFL. Who nows what 2020 figures and numbers will dictate or reveal.

One problem we have here in Oklahoma is that we think we have to go to Texas to enjoy quality of life and living. Texas wants you to think that and they program their people to market their state as being bigger and better. They are bigger and better in a lot lof areas; however, they don't tell you or promote the down-sides of Texas. I lived there and own property in Texas.

My research has led me to determine that it would be risky to attempt to bring the NFL to OKC:

1. Investing in an NFL type stadium
2. Not knowing what the population figures will be in 2020.
3. Not knowing how corporately strong we will be in 2020.

People here don't think outside the box...

[dcsooner]

One problem we have here in Oklahoma is that we think we have to go to Texas to enjoy quality of life and living. Texas wants you to think that and they program their people to market their state as being bigger and better. They are bigger and better in a lot lof areas; however, they don't tell you or promote the down-sides of Texas. I lived there and own property in Texas

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THIS . OKLAHOMANS ARE THE WORST FOR STATE PRIDE.

[ljbab728]

OKLAHOMANS ARE THE WORST FOR STATE PRIDE.

That may be your opinion but it doesn't apply to anyone I know or talk to.

[MDot]

That may be your opinion but it doesn't apply to anyone I know or talk to.

Yeah, same here. I think when we say we can't support an NFL team right now we're being honest and realistic but somehow it's turned into us having a love affair with Texas and not having any state pride.

[dcsooner]

Yeah, same here. I think when we say we can't support an NFL team right now we're being honest and realistic but somehow it's turned into us having a love affair with Texas and not having any state pride.

Please understand the entire context of the statement made. It was referring to much more than football. In some other thread it was mentioned that some 600K Oklahomans live in DFW, why is that? Maybe they think QofL is better in North Texas, or HOuston or Austin? We are also notoriouos abouot being in DENIAL

[SoonerDave]

One problem we have here in Oklahoma is that we think we have to go to Texas to enjoy quality of life and living. Texas wants you to think that and they program their people to market their state as being bigger and better. They are bigger and better in a lot lof areas; however, they don't tell you or promote the down-sides of Texas. I lived there and own property in Texas

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THIS . OKLAHOMANS ARE THE WORST FOR STATE PRIDE.

Speak for yourself, dc. I have no issues at all with "state pride." I've lived here almost all my life. Texas has some nice stuff, so does Florida, so does every state. But I'm delighted every time I get back home that this IS my home, so this business about having some sort of inferiority complex to Texas just stupefies me.

[metro]

While I personally don't think it will happen, this is the same BS people said about the NBA 8--10 years ago.

Lame excuse, we've already talked this excuse dozens of times

[metro]

speak for yourself, dc. I have no issues at all with "state pride." i've lived here almost all my life. Texas has some nice stuff, so does florida, so does every state. But i'm delighted every time i get back home that this is my home, so this business about having some sort of inferiority complex to texas just stupefies me.

this

[metro]

Laramie, yet again you confuse reality with pride. Even if you consider Sonic and OGE as Fortune 500 companies which they are NOT! The entire STATE would have only 6, but we have 4 statewide in reality. You are also ASSUMING they ALL would support it. The 4 we do have dont all support it. Dallas has 10 Fortune 500 companies and Houston has 22!!!! Not to mention the dozens if not hundreds of other large employers (ala Sonic, Sandridge, C.R size) OKC does not have. I wish this were not the case but it is. It doesn't mean we aren't PROUD as heck for our city/state or think outside the box.

[MDot]

Please understand the entire context of the statement made. It was referring to much more than football. In some other thread it was mentioned that some 600K Oklahomans live in DFW, why is that? Maybe they think QofL is better in North Texas, or HOuston or Austin? We are also notoriouos abouot being in DENIAL

Those aren't Oklahomans who live in DFW, those are called Texans unless Oklahoma expanded its border last night. LOL I'm in denial of the things you say because they're not true and you're pushing your own opinion as a fact, not because I'm insecure about Oklahoma being a wonderful place that is finally growing up. Don't try and put this on the people of Oklahoma just because YOU believe it.

[dcsooner]

Those aren't Oklahomans who live in DFW, those are called Texans unless Oklahoma expanded its border last night. LOL I'm in denial of the things you say because they're not true and you're pushing your own opinion as a fact, not because I'm insecure about Oklahoma being a wonderful place that is finally growing up. Don't try and put this on the people of Oklahoma just because YOU believe it.

Listen, no need to fight over this, we can agree to disagree. My only point in the beginning was that Oklahoma would/could have a much larger population from which to support something like the NFL if Oklahoma kept more of its native born citizens at home. It is well known fact that Oklahoma is a donor State to Texas. Improve the QofL across the board and Oklahomas population will grow beyond the miserable 4-5% which caused us to be surpassed by Oregon as 27th most populous.

[MDot]

Listen, no need to fight over this, we can agree to disagree. My only point in the beginning was that Oklahoma would/could have a much larger population from which to support something like the NFL if Oklahoma kept more of its native born citizens at home. It is well known fact that Oklahoma is a donor State to Texas. Improve the QofL across the board and Oklahomas population will grow beyond the miserable 4-5% which caused us to be surpassed by Oregon as 27th most populous.

I can agree with everything you said in this post. I still say give it 15-20 years before we can legitimately talk about receiving an NFL franchise.

[metro]

Listen, no need to fight over this, we can agree to disagree. My only point in the beginning was that Oklahoma would/could have a much larger population from which to support something like the NFL if Oklahoma kept more of its native born citizens at home. It is well known fact that Oklahoma is a donor State to Texas. Improve the QofL across the board and Oklahomas population will grow beyond the miserable 4-5% which caused us to be surpassed by Oregon as 27th most populous.

Actually in 2011, for the first time in forever Oklahoma had a net gain from Texas.

[semisimple]

Actually in 2011, for the first time in forever Oklahoma had a net gain from Texas.

Evidence for this claim?