Convergence (formerly Innovation Plaza)

[Pete]

Battery innovation continues to be incremental and has evolved to the point that we now have almost every automaker having several electric and hybrid vehicles with a ton more in the pipeline.

But when there is a big breakthrough in batteries -- and it's coming because there is so much money to be made -- there could be a pretty big shift away from fossil fuels and things would accelerate from there.

This is a huge future industry and the risk to OKC is not the loss of O&G jobs because we've already lost about 75% of them anyway... It's that that industry will keep using their influence (guys like Harold Hamm) to keep out the clean fuel adoption and companies, which means we'll almost completely miss out on huge opportunities down the road.

[mugofbeer]

Hamm won't be able to stop the trend. It's ironic he and T. Boone Pickens were such good friends yet Pickens became the leading wind energy advocate.

[Plutonic Panda]

Search up a cobalt and lithium mine and then look up how much demand and current market share there for electric cars and battery storage tech to accommodate renewable energy. Renewable energy is completely unreliable and almost always has to be supplemented by coal and natural gas because the greenies always oppose nuclear.

I’m not here to say oil or ICE cars are better or that we should just forget investing on more environmentally friendly technologies. I love developments like this and think that there should much R&D into solar and energy storage but right now I’m amazed at the people that drive around in their EVs thinking their cars are so much better than ICE cars because they shifted the pollution elsewhere. Far too many of those people don’t support nuclear energy either which is concerning.

Electric cars have many advantages and Tesla(well really Elon musk) has completely changed the game. Much of the EVs being introduced by car companies soon won’t be a matter of choice as governments around the world are trying to accelerate the moving away from ICE cars which eventually needs to happen.

I think hydrogen has the best promise and yes I’m aware of the challenges presented by hydrogen as a fuel source for transportation. Like nuclear energy(especially fusion), it needs more R&D.

[Pete]

Renewable energy is completely unreliable and almost always has to be supplemented by coal and natural gas

We are very early in this process.

Things will change and there is a big pivot coming.

Remember, most countries don't produce nearly enough fossil fuels to meet their needs. Renewal energy can be produced anywhere and tons of very smart people are working on making it much more efficient, and a lot of them are not in the U.S.

They are forecasting the number of electric car models will jump from under 100 to over 175 in this year alone. By 2025, that number should be over 330.

There are going to be some big innovations and then they will spread throughout the world. Change is coming, and fast.

[Jersey Boss]

Battery innovation continues to be incremental and has evolved to the point that we now have almost every automaker having several electric and hybrid vehicles with a ton more in the pipeline.

But when there is a big breakthrough in batteries -- and it's coming because there is so much money to be made -- there could be a pretty big shift away from fossil fuels and things would accelerate from there.

This is a huge future industry and the risk to OKC is not the loss of O&G jobs because we've already lost about 75% of them anyway... It's that that industry will keep using their influence (guys like Harold Hamm) to keep out the clean fuel adoption and companies, which means we'll almost completely miss out on huge opportunities down the road.

Great points Many point to how this state is more diverse and not as reliant on this industry. The thing that has not changed is the outsize political influence the Hamms and fellow fossils have in the legislature and the office of the Governor. This is where the diversity needs to happen.

[Plutonic Panda]

I completely agree and I’m not debating that. But there are far too many people that discount other promising forms of energy and think that renewables are this cure all to our problems and it’s concerning. I am seriously considering buying a model 3 next month. I’m not against EVs or renewables just critical of certain promises or desires made by them and their advocates.

It’s also important that our grid will need substantial upgrades as it is for large scale EV usage. Much of EV charging will be done at night when solar and wind energy produces at its minimum. I’m all for putting solar on rooftops but a few candu nuke plants in eastern Oklahoma could supply energy to almost the entire state.

These wind farms that require insane amounts of resources and land to keep running would not be necessary. But as you say, this technology is in its infancy and will only get better. We’ll see.

I am a tad frustrated with the lack of range on EVs. Besides Tesla, what’s currently on the market and cars with a solid release date to come aren’t really that much different than the tech ten years ago in terms of range. Maybe 20-30 miles better but still much more expensive than ICE cars per the mile you will get out of the fuel it uses. I would think the standard by now would be at least 150 miles and that should be bottom of the barrel.

Toyota just announced a very small car(basically it’s EV version of the Mercedes smart for two) and it cost north of 15k(you can buy a very efficient ICE engine car for under 20k that is larger and gets much more range) has a range of under 100 miles per charge and has a top speed of 37MPH.

I’m hoping the 2020s will see a much more rapid pace in the evolution and advancement of EV tech than the 2010s did. The charging issues honestly don’t seem to be much of an issue for intercity driving. I seriously doubt most people a day drive more than 50-70 miles at most in most metros.

But again, I really wish we’d take hydrogen more seriously. It’s energy intensive to produce but with more R&D just like EVs need I can see it as a great alternative being practical by the 2030s. I still think ICE cars will rule throughout the 2020s and possibly the 2030s. ICE cars get way too much crap and too little recognition for how much better and environmentally friendly they’ve become since their inception.

[Jersey Boss]

Good luck on finding an insurance carrier to underwrite a nuke plant.

The US government insurance scheme for nuclear power plant accidents no longer makes sense - Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists
https://thebulletin.org/2020/02/the-...r-makes-sense/

[HangryHippo]

The thing that has not changed is the outsize political influence the Hamms and fellow fossils have in the legislature and the office of the Governor. This is where the diversity needs to happen.

This!

And as Pete said earlier, OK with O&G is going to screw around until the renewables have all set up shop elsewhere and we miss that boat.

[Plutonic Panda]

Good luck on finding an insurance carrier to underwrite a nuke plant.

The US government insurance scheme for nuclear power plant accidents no longer makes sense - Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists
https://thebulletin.org/2020/02/the-...r-makes-sense/

All things that can be addressed to support the cleanest, most efficient, and safest form energy in existence.

New nuclear power plants are being built in many places across the world and expansions to the Georgia plant are happening as we speak. Getting insurance isn’t the problem. It’s irrational public fear and uneducated voices that are the biggest barrier.

[Plutonic Panda]

This!

And as Pete said earlier, OK with O&G is going to screw around until the renewables have all set up shop elsewhere and we miss that boat.

I’m not sure about other sources but Oklahoma is already on the map of being on the biggest players in the world with wind energy. There’s article after article about it and how much investment in wind energy is happening in the state. We certainly won’t miss the boat on wind energy.

[Pete]

Range of EV's will matter much less once we have the charging infrastructure and ability to rapidly charge.

EV range is already about the same as a tank of gas.

And we always have a tendency to think of the U.S. which is very different than the rest of the world. Many areas are very dense and the huge majority of the world's population rarely travels over 500 miles in one trip.


I predict a big jump in battery capacity and efficiency in the near future. And it could easily come from Europe where they have a dangerous reliance on imported oil and apart from Germany, imported cars.

[Rover]

I’m not sure about other sources but Oklahoma is already on the map of being on the biggest players in the world with wind energy. There’s article after article about it and how much investment in wind energy is happening in the state. We certainly won’t miss the boat on wind energy.

Oklahoma is where the wind is, not wind energy companies. Big difference.

This thread needs renamed.

[Plutonic Panda]

Range of EV's will matter much less once we have the charging infrastructure and ability to rapidly charge.

EV range is already about the same as a tank of gas.

And we always have a tendency to think of the U.S. which is very different than the rest of the world. Many areas are very dense and the huge majority of the world's population rarely travels over 500 miles in one trip.


I predict a big jump in battery capacity and efficiency in the near future. And it could easily come from Europe where they have a dangerous reliance on imported oil and apart from Germany, imported cars.

I completely agree with everything you said except for EVs having the same range of gas. The change in the amount of mileage you get per tank/charge varies greatly due to driver behavior and with EVs it’s more drastic. Cold weather also impacts EV mileage greatly. Not the same for ICE cars.

Except for Tesla, the EVs I’ve seen have ranges of 150-200 on the high end. The low end with ICE cars are 250-300 miles per tank. My Prius gets 400+ on a 10 gallon tank. I paid 15k for it.

[Jersey Boss]

All things that can be addressed to support the cleanest, most efficient, and safest form energy in existence.

New nuclear power plants are being built in many places across the world and expansions to the Georgia plant are happening as we speak. Getting insurance isn’t the problem. It’s irrational public fear and uneducated voices that are the biggest barrier.

Tell that to the Japanese. You do know Germany , Belgium and other developed countries are moving away from nuke power.

Nuclear power phase-out - Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_phase-out

[Plutonic Panda]

Oklahoma is where the wind is, not wind energy companies. Big difference.

This thread needs renamed.

According to this article Oklahoma isn’t even in the top windiest states but I agree with your premise. The point of my post was to shown Oklahoma is missing the renewables boat and it can be argued it is at the forefront regarding specific aspects of it.

https://beef2live.com/story-states-least-wind-0-122176

[Plutonic Panda]

Tell that to the Japanese. You do know Germany , Belgium and other developed countries are moving away from nuke power.

Nuclear power phase-out - Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_phase-out

Japan is also reconsidering it’s moving away from nuclear power and there were already concerns about Fukushima to begin with.

You should also know as Germany has moved away from nuclear energy it’s emissions have spiked.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...emissions/amp/

France on the other hand is going big on nuclear and their emissions were steadily decreasing

Here’s information about France: https://ourworldindata.org/co2/count...e?country=~FRA

You can play around with it and see for yourself. Recently, data isn’t reliable over the last year due to covid. Before covid Germany saw a slight decrease in emissions but in comparison to France it’s nothing.

[Plutonic Panda]

Tell that to the Japanese. You do know Germany , Belgium and other developed countries are moving away from nuke power.

Nuclear power phase-out - Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_phase-out

It’s interesting your playing devils advocate almost as if you oppose nuclear power but don’t want to say it. Denying nuclear energy is denying science no different from being an anti-vaxxer or climate change denier.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...nuclear-power/

Thankfully Biden and even AOC(who IIRC once opposed nuclear) are both now open to embracing it. Renewables should aid nuclear power in large scale production. I’m not making an argument against renewables.

[HOT ROD]

So you think Devon is in trouble because they deal in fossil fuels? I'm not an expert in these matters but, unless there's a huge scientific breakthrough, I don't see fossil fuels going anywhere soon.

you took the wrong message. I don't think Devon is in trouble. I just am baffled why Devon (and Oklahoma for that matter) isn't being first to market regarding energy other than fossil. Industries evolve and fossil will never be as profitable as it once was - just look at the efficiencies gained already. You need a new crux and it seems as if OKC companies like Devon are ignoring a huge new market to which they should lead, instead leaving it for China (which is the whole problem with the whole globalization to begin with - you can insert incentives but US COMPANIES need to innovate and expand in those new markets)

Now imagine if Devon were more of a diversified company than oil and gas. Imagine if more OKC companies were - we could be the new energy capital and THAT could be the next economic goose egg (with fat jobs again) but nope - we're gonna keep drillin' and that's it.

[Rover]

This thread is totally hijacked and is now a nuclear vs wind/solar thread. The discussion is fine, but it needs a separate and new thread so we can use this to actually get information about and discuss the real topic of the thread - Innovation Plaza.

[Laramie]

New Development for Cross-Sector Innovation and Advanced Technology Collaboration in Oklahoma City Innovation District

[PaddyShack]

This and the CHK campus should be OKC's plunge into the incubator segment. OKC needs to reign in the state to dump money into STEM programs. Attract some startups and in a few years we will be pumping out better students into this segment and maybe we see a few startups move out into their own digs in the CBD.

[HangryHippo]

This and the CHK campus should be OKC's plunge into the incubator segment. OKC needs to reign in the state to dump money into STEM programs. Attract some startups and in a few years we will be pumping out better students into this segment and maybe we see a few startups move out into their own digs in the CBD.

Great idea!

[Rover]

This and the CHK campus should be OKC's plunge into the incubator segment. OKC needs to reign in the state to dump money into STEM programs. Attract some startups and in a few years we will be pumping out better students into this segment and maybe we see a few startups move out into their own digs in the CBD.

Considering that the one educational thing that OK and OKC does right is vo-tech, we should leverage that up into advanced technology training. We need to look at the assets we have and leverage them instead of constantly trying to be what we aren’t.

[warreng88]

Not sure if this has anything to do with this development, but when I drove by this morning, the area just east of the exit ramp from 235 was fenced off and they were drilling into the retainage ditch area.

[shavethewhales]

Sounds like geotechnical. That means engineering for the site is well underway. Probably see actual construction about a year from now.