Lexford Park (formerly First Christian Church)

[barrettd]

I'm wondering why all this rush to preserve wasn't done several years ago, when it went up for sale? Any talk now of preservation is too little, too late, and, unless someone has deep enough pockets to buy the property and preserve the structure, there's really nothing more to be done.

The congregation and the church have every right to sell the property to whomever they choose. I, personally, will hate to see Jewel Box gone, as it's been my theatre home for almost 30 years. The church has been in decline for the last decade or so, and the writing has been on the wall as to the fate of this property.

It sucks, yes. But all this talk and wailing about preserving and stopping the sale should have started many years ago.

[dankrutka]

It’s not too late. OKC literally just went through this with the Braum’s/Donnay building, which was saved through public pressure. If OKC should have learned one thing from its recent history, it’s to keep pushing to do the right thing or else the city will just end up a generic mass of replaceable anywhereness.

[Plutonic Panda]

I'm wondering why all this rush to preserve wasn't done several years ago, when it went up for sale?

prop cause they were too busy trying to save every other historic and unique building that seemingly goes up for the chopping block like clockwork every month.

[okatty]

I'm guessing you know how the Disciples of Christ structures property ownership? Is each congregation a separate entity that makes all decisions?

I’m not totally sure, but I believe the local entity owns the property and makes whatever decisions are to be made.

[Dob Hooligan]

I'm wondering why all this rush to preserve wasn't done several years ago, when it went up for sale? Any talk now of preservation is too little, too late, and, unless someone has deep enough pockets to buy the property and preserve the structure, there's really nothing more to be done.

The congregation and the church have every right to sell the property to whomever they choose. I, personally, will hate to see Jewel Box gone, as it's been my theatre home for almost 30 years. The church has been in decline for the last decade or so, and the writing has been on the wall as to the fate of this property.

It sucks, yes. But all this talk and wailing about preserving and stopping the sale should have started many years ago.

I don’t think it is been for sale for several years. About a year IIRC. Lemme ask why the need to sell? This is not a commercial property with owners who have invested personal money or stand to gain from a sale?

[barrettd]

I don’t think it is been for sale for several years. About a year IIRC. Lemme ask why the need to sell? This is not a commercial property with owners who have invested personal money or stand to gain from a sale?

Why don't the owners of the property have the right to sell? The first post in this thread is from 2016 announcing it as for sale, but there have been investors looking at this property for years, all scared off by the amount of money they'd have to pour in to keep the structure and make it sound.

[Pete]

Why don't the owners of the property have the right to sell? The first post in this thread is from 2016 announcing it as for sale, but there have been investors looking at this property for years, all scared off by the amount of money they'd have to pour in to keep the structure and make it sound.

And the sales price.

[Urban Pioneer]

I'm actually still a registered member at this church. My wife and I actually went onto the property last week to a Trinity School event. The Trinity lease on the property exists until 2020. It will be a shame to see the school move as it brings a great deal of energy to the property in the way originally intended.

Other than the sales price, the reason the threat of demolition hasn't been an imminent threat is that the church membership has regularly expressed their desire that it not be torn down. I haven't seen the church finances in some time, but there was a fairly healthy endowment that kept the property up while I was attending there. Even though membership was dwindling, it's the endowment that staved of the sale. My guess is that those finances must be threatened, thus the sale.

Regarding some of the other comments on the previous page, the first Don Alexander was apparently incredibly charismatic and raised the funds for "The church of Tomorrow" in the early fifties. Alexander was also a politician. I believe a senator. The congregation actually had built the church at 10th and Robinson (now Frontline) and started this project under his leadership. It was an architectural marvel and featured in Life magazine. Shortly after the church was completed, Alexander was killed in a plane crash.

From the plane crash onward the membership dwindled. So almost immediately after the facility was built. It was essentially built around the charisma of one man. After the second pastor, Alexander's son, Don Jr. came back to the church and essentially stabilized the church. He was there for several decades. I had the pleasure of knowing him. The church had at least two schisms under him though. They pretty much divisions over the style of leadership. Younger people wanted the more non-denominational modern worship style over traditional worship. That may be over generalizing it. There may have been other issues too. Regardless, he made it through those two schisims and the old stayed and the young left. Don retired and moved into the mountains in Colorado.

I might try to go to this board meeting just to see what's up with the place. After I moved here from Texas twenty years ago, the membership and the facility have a special place in my heart. The congregation is incredibly sweet and the architecture of that place is pretty amazing. Despite what is being asserted, it is an incredibly sound structure. I installed the carillon system in the bell tower. That structure is now dual purpose and actually has AT&T antennas in it. There is also a large outdoor amphitheater that often escapes view. A larger than life statue of Don Alexander stands in front of Trinity School. The whole saga, period of time, and spirit of that era is extremely Kennedyesque.

[Pete]

^

Can you shed some light on where the sales proceeds will go?

Will they go to the national organization?

[Urban Pioneer]

My understanding is that the congregation wants to stay together. I heard that they actually want to move into the Trinity School building. That may have changed but that would presume that the old youth center wouldn't be sold or that they would retain some sort of lease on that property. They also previously entertained moving or buying something somewhere else and moving entirely.

Regarding the national Disciple of Christ organization, I am not sure about that. The building just east of the dome facing 36th street is actually the state offices for the denomination. There are nearly a couple hundred Disciples churches in Oklahoma. Having the state offices there gives you some sort of idea as to how important and influential the complex used to be. If the church is dissolved, it may go to the state organization. I will ask our pastor about that.

[barrettd]

I'm actually still a registered member at this church. My wife and I actually went onto the property last week to a Trinity School event. The Trinity lease on the property exists until 2020. It will be a shame to see the school move as it brings a great deal of energy to the property in the way originally intended.

Other than the sales price, the reason the threat of demolition hasn't been an imminent threat is that the church membership has regularly expressed their desire that it not be torn down. I haven't seen the church finances in some time, but there was a fairly healthy endowment that kept the property up while I was attending there. Even though membership was dwindling, it's the endowment that staved of the sale. My guess is that those finances must be threatened, thus the sale.

Regarding some of the other comments on the previous page, the first Don Alexander was apparently incredibly charismatic and raised the funds for "The church of Tomorrow" in the early fifties. Alexander was also a politician. I believe a senator. The congregation actually had built the church at 10th and Robinson (now Frontline) and started this project under his leadership. It was an architectural marvel and featured in Life magazine. Shortly after the church was completed, Alexander was killed in a plane crash.

From the plane crash onward the membership dwindled. So almost immediately after the facility was built. It was essentially built around the charisma of one man. After the second pastor, Alexander's son, Don Jr. came back to the church and essentially stabilized the church. He was there for several decades. I had the pleasure of knowing him. The church had at least two schisms under him though. They pretty much divisions over the style of leadership. Younger people wanted the more non-denominational modern worship style over traditional worship. That may be over generalizing it. There may have been other issues too. Regardless, he made it through those two schisims and the old stayed and the young left. Don retired and moved into the mountains in Colorado.

I might try to go to this board meeting just to see what's up with the place. After I moved here from Texas twenty years ago, the membership and the facility have a special place in my heart. The congregation is incredibly sweet and the architecture of that place is pretty amazing. Despite what is being asserted, it is an incredibly sound structure. I installed the carillon system in the bell tower. That structure is now dual purpose and actually has AT&T antennas in it. There is also a large outdoor amphitheater that often escapes view. A larger than life statue of Don Alexander stands in front of Trinity School. The whole saga, period of time, and spirit of that era is extremely Kennedyesque.

Don't get me wrong, I would absolutely love for there to be someone who would invest the money to keep the buildings intact, and even improved upon. It's a shame it's even come to this, but the congregation has apparently agreed to sell to someone who wants to level everything, and I think that's their right, no matter how much I hate to see it all go. In the right hands, that property could be an amazing facility for the arts in Oklahoma City. That amphitheatre is very unique in addition to the Jewel Box and the sanctuary.

If the church had been able to let it go at a lower price, if the right investors had come along, if the city had a better process for protecting its historic buildings, if, if, if...

It's a bad deal for everyone except the only people who really have a say in the process, the church and the people buying the property.

[Bill Robertson]

Leaks were mentioned a few posts ago. The roof was redone and all the round skylights were replaced last year. We go by there daily taking my wife to work and there were lifts and crews for most of a year.

[Urban Pioneer]

Barrettd, I think that is a fair assessment as the situation currently stands today. I guess the questions is how could it stand. Here are some statements sent to me by Ed Shadid by way of the OKC Planning Department as it relates to historic buildings.

Here are some Q&As

Historic Buildings Q&A

How can I help preserve a building?

Talk to your City Council representative and the Mayor’s office. You can also sign up to speak at City Council, Planning Commission and Historic Preservation Commission meetings.

What’s the difference between Historic Landmark zoning and the National Register of Historic Places?

Historic Landmark zoning is controlled by the City Council. The Council can change the zoning overlay to designate a property as a Historic Landmark.

The National Register of Historic Places is authorized by the U.S. National Park Service. It’s a symbolic recognition that a place is worthy of preservation.

What happens when you want to demolish a building without Historic Landmark zoning?

The only review is what’s required to get a demolition permit. Exceptions apply in design review districts like Downtown and Bricktown, where demolitions are subject to approval by review committees.

Who can zone a property as a Historic Landmark?

The City Council. The process is the same as any other zoning application:

• The property owner can request a zoning change through the Planning Commission, Historic Preservation Commission or the City Council. The commissions or the Council can also independently start the zoning change process.

• The commissions review the requested change and make a recommendation to the City Council.

• The City Council makes a final decision.

Does the owner have to agree with the Historic Landmark designation?

No. But if the property owner formally opposes the zoning overlay, the City Council can only designate it as a Historic Landmark with a supermajority of seven votes.

What does it mean when a property is designated as a Historic Landmark?

Exterior work, including demolition, is subject to approval by the Historic Preservation Commission.

What are Oklahoma City’s Historic Landmarks?

Wells Fargo Building (Whiskey Chicks), 115 E Reno Ave.
Calvary Baptist Church (Law Offices of Dan Davis), 300 N Walnut Ave.
St. Paul’s Episcopal Cathedral, 127 NW 7th Street
Sieber Grocery Building (The Sieber), 1309 N Hudson Ave.
Hotel Marion (The Marion), 110 NW 10th Street
Milk Bottle Grocery (LAUD Studio), 2426 N Classen Blvd.
Union Soldiers Cemetery (Oklahoma Veterans Cemetery), 2101 NE 36th Street
Freedom Center, 2609 N Martin Luther King Ave.

[BDP]

What's interesting is that it's sandwiched in-between two HP neighborhoods. While a new owner may be able to do whatever they want with it, I can't imagine that those two neighborhoods will just quietly let anything be built there. While they ultimately have no power to stop something, I can see them trying as hard as they can to make it a pain in the butt. It's my understanding that it was largely the resistance of those neighborhoods that resulted in a previous developer pulling out.

Is there any indication of what the buyer ultimately wants to do with the property?

[HangryHippo]

Didn't the Humphreys have a grand(-ish) mixed-use proposal for this land at one time?

[Pete]

^

Yes, but the church and Jewel Box Theater were to be preserved.

[barrettd]

What's interesting is that it's sandwiched in-between two HP neighborhoods. While a new owner may be able to do whatever they want with it, I can't imagine that those two neighborhoods will just quietly let anything be built there. While they ultimately have no power to stop something, I can see them trying as hard as they can to make it a pain in the butt. It's my understanding that it was largely the resistance of those neighborhoods that resulted in a previous developer pulling out.

Is there any indication of what the buyer ultimately wants to do with the property?

I can't remember if we even know who the buyer is at this point.

[Pete]

Even beyond demolition, a significant portion of that property would have to be rezoned.

Only the very corner of Walker and 36th is zoned C-3. The huge percentage is R-1, which only allows for single-family homes. There is a CUP-26 overlay but I believe that just allows for the operation of the school, and very limited use of the amphitheater.

So, demolition is only part of this. In order to build anything but a traditional housing tract (and even that would require platting through the planning commission), this property would have to go through rezoning which means formal notice to surrounding neighbors, public hearings, then ultimately approval by city council.

And good luck with that in general but particularly if you demolish or plan to demolish the church.

[sooner88]

https://newsok.com/article/5623926/d...ristian-church

The title of Steve's article looks familiar...

[jedicurt]

https://newsok.com/article/5623926/d...ristian-church

The title of Steve's article looks familiar...

[Sarcasm]what? completely different... the words are in a different order, and hey calls it a landmark, not iconic... [/Sarcasm]

[BDP]

So, demolition is only part of this. In order to build anything but a traditional housing tract (and even that would require platting through the planning commission), this property would have to go through rezoning which means formal notice to surrounding neighbors, public hearings, then ultimately approval by city council.

Certainly doesn't sound easy.

Unfortunately, it sounds like a recipe for another historic tear down that only results in empty space for an indeterminate amount of time.

[jedicurt]

Certainly doesn't sound easy.

Unfortunately, it sounds like a recipe for another historic tear down that only results in empty space for an indeterminate amount of time.

agreed... sadly a while ago i would have been okay with this... and i was okay with tearing down stage center to get the project that was shown to us... but after seeing that turn into nothing, and then the loss of the Gold Dome... i'm all for saving this now.

[BDP]

Only the very corner of Walker and 36th is zoned C-3. The huge percentage is R-1, which only allows for single-family homes. There is a CUP-26 overlay but I believe that just allows for the operation of the school, and very limited use of the amphitheater.

It kind of looks like the path of least resistance would to maybe do one of those gated housing developments, like those in Nichols Hills by the Golf Course.

And in that context, maybe they could preserve some of the current assets for community use and fund maintenance through the HOA...

Just thinking out loud...

[Pete]

Remember, the proposal by the Humphreys 10 years ago showed the church would remain and even that was withdrawn due to backlash by the neighbors.

I have a very hard time seeing how a large development would ever get past all the various public hoops, and I would deem the chances almost impossible if that plan also involved razing the church.


There is a reason why this awesome piece of property has remained undeveloped all these years.

[BDP]

Remember, the proposal by the Humphreys 10 years ago showed the church would remain and even that was withdrawn due to backlash by the neighbors.

I have a very hard time seeing how a large development would ever get past all the various public hoops, and I would deem the chances almost impossible if that plan also involved razing the church.


There is a reason why this awesome piece of property has remained undeveloped all these years.

True,

I lived in the area at the time and I seem to remember the biggest concern the neighborhood(s) had was traffic and traffic flow (big increase on Walker), largely due to the commercial aspects.

.... or, at least, that was their best strategy against a development they simply didn't want to see built.