New Arena (formerly Prairie Surf)

[drinner-okc]

When the Arena opened the city signed a contract with SMG that tied all 3 venues capable of hosting Ice Hockey. The Arena, Myriad and State Fair Arena. It was SMG's decision that NO MORE sports events would be held in the Myriad. The deal sounded sweet to OKC. they were promised SMG would bring in all the big concerts, Conventions...stuff like that.
When the Blazers were forced to the Arena, costs went up tenfold. The first few games The whole 3rd level was open, all the concesions, restrooms, ushers. Arena staff outnumbered fans. The Blazers (Bob Funk) was at SMG's mercy. It was agreed to close the top level & curb costs.
The State Fair Arena was built especially to accomodate Ice Hockey (NHL sized rink) The seating & sight lines were great. The Myriad was
very friendly for Hockey, the height level between rows & offset seats made visibliity good.
The arena was built to get the maximum number of seats on a minimum footprint. The seats are much smaller than the Myriad, so moving after you're seated is tough, most rows it's near impossible for somone to cross infront of you while you're seated. I had great seats for Blazers games, but was unable to view the whole ice.
After the way Blazers fans were abandoned, no Hockey at all for a year and serious price increases, I attend 1-2 Hockey games a year.
I would not attend at all if they were forced to move across the street.

[jn1780]

Yeah, the Cox Convention is used for hockey because its easy, convenient, and makes more economic sense to the Barons and SMG. It has little to do with the Thunder. I'm sure they don't care if the Barons play at Chesapeake as long as they don't use their locker room facilities and don't get in the way of NBA scheduling. The AHL is used to being second to the NBA or the NHL. Obviously, money and being able to fill arenas will get you more leverage.

[PhiAlpha]

When the Arena opened the city signed a contract with SMG that tied all 3 venues capable of hosting Ice Hockey. The Arena, Myriad and State Fair Arena. It was SMG's decision that NO MORE sports events would be held in the Myriad. The deal sounded sweet to OKC. they were promised SMG would bring in all the big concerts, Conventions...stuff like that.
When the Blazers were forced to the Arena, costs went up tenfold. The first few games The whole 3rd level was open, all the concesions, restrooms, ushers. Arena staff outnumbered fans. The Blazers (Bob Funk) was at SMG's mercy. It was agreed to close the top level & curb costs.
The State Fair Arena was built especially to accomodate Ice Hockey (NHL sized rink) The seating & sight lines were great. The Myriad was
very friendly for Hockey, the height level between rows & offset seats made visibliity good.
The arena was built to get the maximum number of seats on a minimum footprint. The seats are much smaller than the Myriad, so moving after you're seated is tough, most rows it's near impossible for somone to cross infront of you while you're seated. I had great seats for Blazers games, but was unable to view the whole ice.
After the way Blazers fans were abandoned, no Hockey at all for a year and serious price increases, I attend 1-2 Hockey games a year.
I would not attend at all if they were forced to move across the street.

Pretty sure the seats are larger at the Peake

[GoOKC1991]

After the way Blazers fans were abandoned, no Hockey at all for a year and serious price increases, I attend 1-2 Hockey games a year.
I would not attend at all if they were forced to move across the street.

Are you serious? Moving on from the Blazers was the right move, the CHL is terrible hockey and the AHL is the best level of hockey aside from of course the NHL, price increases? It's a higher level, what do you expect?

I cannot believe you (and others I know personally) are holding a grudge over the move to the AHL and losing the Blazers.

As far as IF they ever move to the Peake, I am a Barons fan and will watch this team wherever they play in this city.

Get over your grudge. The Blazers have been gone since 2009, they are not coming back.

[Fantastic]

Pretty sure the seats are larger at the Peake

They aren't.

Are you serious? Moving on from the Blazers was the right move, the CHL is terrible hockey and the AHL is the best level of hockey aside from of course the NHL, prices increases? It's a higher level, what do you expect?

I cannot believe you (and others I know personally) are holding a grudge over the move to the AHL and losing the Blazers.

As far as IF they ever move to the Peake, I am a Barons fan and will watch this team wherever they play in this city.

Get over your grudge. The Blazers have been gone since 2009, they are not coming back.

^^^THIS!!!

I was at 7-Eleven a while back wearing a Barons shirt, and the cashier struck up a conversation with me about how he had grown up with the Blazers and just couldn't get behind the Barons... he was VERY uninformed. He said things like how he disliked the fact that the Barons "pushed out" the Blazers... they weren't busy, and I had a good 20 minute conversation with him, I explained to him the series of which lead to the Blazers-Barons switch, and I explained the higher level of hockey. By the end of the conversation, he said that I had convinced him to get tickets to the next game. Obviously I have no idea if he did so or not, but the point is, most people here know little about hockey, and in their minds "this new team took away our old team."

I will say this: While we are known as a football, basketball and baseball state (and we are becoming known as a soccer state due to OKCFC and Tulsa Athletics attendance and TV ratings for major matches from abroad), we DO have a reputation as a hockey friendly state... yes, the fanbase is smaller, but VERY loyal. The Barons are last in attendance but in the top five in season ticket renewal. And that small but rabid fanbase buys merchandise... I see t-shirts and car flags all over town (obviously not in as high a number as Thunder merch, but much... MUCH higher than RedHawks merch)... one of the first things I ever bought my son was a Derrick T. Mountainlion (Barons mascot) doll. He also has a Rumble doll that he likes, but he LOVES Derrick. Side note: You should have seen the way he freaked out the first time he saw Derrick and Bit (the other Barons mascot) for real at the State Fair

[Fantastic]

Ok, back to talking about the building itself... I have always had the opinion that the arena should remain, but the exibit halls can go. Tear them down, and build the new convention center hotel on that corner. I do not understand all this "RETURN THE STREET GRID, RETURN THE STREET GRID" crap... Californa Avenue will still terminate at EK Gaylord on the east and Robinson Avenue on the west, and Broadway would still terminate at Reno on the south! Unless you are proposing removal of the Chesapeake Arena, Bricktown Canal, Chickisaw Bricktown Ballpark and Myriad Gardens, the "restore the street grid" argument holds no water. We would only be restoring TWO blocks north and south and TWO blocks east and west.

Keep the arena. Yeah, it's old, but VERY useful. In 10, 15, or 20 years when we are looking for a replacement for the Chesapeake, then we can talk about demolishing the old Myriad and building a new arena on that site... and 20-30 years after that, when we are ready to replace the new arena, we can talk about demolishing the old Chesapeake and building a new new arena on that site... and 20 to 30 years after that when we are ready to replace the new new areana... well, you get the picture. We could conceivably ALWAYS have two arenas right across the street from one another, one brand new and state of the art and the other still world class and useful.

OH... (had to edit to add this)... AND those two arenas would ALWAYS be near the CBD, the MAPS3 park, Bricktown, C2S... ALWAYS in the center of activity... ALWAYS within walking distance of where people want to be.

Just my opinion... pretty sure it will be scoffed at

[NWOKCGuy]

Did you create two screennames so you could back yourself up?? lol

I had the same thought. There are posts back to back on several threads. lol

[Just the facts]

Ok, back to talking about the building itself... I have always had the opinion that the arena should remain, but the exibit halls can go. Tear them down, and build the new convention center hotel on that corner. I do not understand all this "RETURN THE STREET GRID, RETURN THE STREET GRID" crap... Californa Avenue will still terminate at EK Gaylord on the east and Robinson Avenue on the west, and Broadway would still terminate at Reno on the south! Unless you are proposing removal of the Chesapeake Arena, Bricktown Canal, Chickisaw Bricktown Ballpark and Myriad Gardens, the "restore the street grid" argument holds no water. We would only be restoring TWO blocks north and south and TWO blocks east and west.

Those two blocks will open up 6,000 feet of street frontage for retail and other uses. That is more retail frontage than Penn Sq. Mall. Plus it will make a pedestrian connection between the transit hub and MBG.

[BrettM2]

Ok, back to talking about the building itself... I have always had the opinion that the arena should remain, but the exibit halls can go. Tear them down, and build the new convention center hotel on that corner. I do not understand all this "RETURN THE STREET GRID, RETURN THE STREET GRID" crap... Californa Avenue will still terminate at EK Gaylord on the east and Robinson Avenue on the west, and Broadway would still terminate at Reno on the south! Unless you are proposing removal of the Chesapeake Arena, Bricktown Canal, Chickisaw Bricktown Ballpark and Myriad Gardens, the "restore the street grid" argument holds no water. We would only be restoring TWO blocks north and south and TWO blocks east and west.

For driving/traffic purposes, you're right: restoring the grid wouldn't make a bit of difference. For development/street-frontage, however, it opens up a ton more space. Rather than have one mega-development that only fronts the street on four sides, most likely isn't the most walkable area either, you would get a plot of land that faces the street on 16 sides and is naturally walkable because it is broken into four pieces rather than one.

I can't count the number of times I've been in the Myriad arena. While I have many fond memories, I wouldn't be the least bit sad to see it go. The prospect for mixed-use/residential/more businesses on that area of land would be much more valuable than keeping a 40 year old (now) arena that could easily be replaced on the fair grounds (or not at all). Also my opinion, no scoffing involved.

[Anonymous.]

Ok, back to talking about the building itself... I have always had the opinion that the arena should remain, but the exibit halls can go. Tear them down, and build the new convention center hotel on that corner. I do not understand all this "RETURN THE STREET GRID, RETURN THE STREET GRID" crap... Californa Avenue will still terminate at EK Gaylord on the east and Robinson Avenue on the west, and Broadway would still terminate at Reno on the south! Unless you are proposing removal of the Chesapeake Arena, Bricktown Canal, Chickisaw Bricktown Ballpark and Myriad Gardens, the "restore the street grid" argument holds no water. We would only be restoring TWO blocks north and south and TWO blocks east and west.

Keep the arena. Yeah, it's old, but VERY useful. In 10, 15, or 20 years when we are looking for a replacement for the Chesapeake, then we can talk about demolishing the old Myriad and building a new arena on that site... and 20-30 years after that, when we are ready to replace the new arena, we can talk about demolishing the old Chesapeake and building a new new arena on that site... and 20 to 30 years after that when we are ready to replace the new new areana... well, you get the picture. We could conceivably ALWAYS have two arenas right across the street from one another, one brand new and state of the art and the other still world class and useful.

OH... (had to edit to add this)... AND those two arenas would ALWAYS be near the CBD, the MAPS3 park, Bricktown, C2S... ALWAYS in the center of activity... ALWAYS within walking distance of where people want to be.

Just my opinion... pretty sure it will be scoffed at

I think you overestimate how often we will need a "new arena".

[Teo9969]

So we don't actually need to restore the grid...we just need to not develop the whole plot as one big building...

In fact...If I didn't know any better, you could call the N/S "Street" "Thunder Alley".

And actually...I think you could even get away with putting an arena there, as long as the opportunity to put other development on the lot is not only possible, but can be made walkable as well. I'd prefer a visual line of sight from the SF Hub to the MBG though, so that would make an arena a tall to impossible order in order to accommodate that preference.

[Just the facts]

It doesn't necessarily have to be an street for cars but with no alley there would have to be room for delivery trucks which would have some kind of delivery time restrictions.

[kwhey]

I think you overestimate how often we will need a "new arena".

I think you underestimate how often a new arena will be needed.

[kwhey]

I had the same thought. There are posts back to back on several threads. lol

We are indeed different people. But I know who the other poster is.

[Bellaboo]

We are indeed different people. But I know who the other poster is.

It's a relative isn't it ? lol

[PhiAlpha]

Just pulling a number out of the air based on other arenas, but likely need to be replaced or heavily renovated every 25 to 30 years. Renovating the Peake would be an option but it will likely be too small at that point. I imagine the next arena we build will be on a much larger footprint and will be able to be renovated a few times before it becomes obsolete. They've been able to make Madison Square Garden work for quite awhile in NYC, no reason we can't do the same here, just maybe not with the Peake without a Key arena, strip to the core kind of makeover (which wasn't a forward thinking enough renovation, but you get the point).

[BoulderSooner]

Just pulling a number out of the air based on other arenas, but likely need to be replaced or heavily renovated every 25 to 30 years. Renovating the Peake would be an option but it will likely be too small at that point. I imagine the next arena we build will be on a much larger footprint and will be able to be renovated a few times before it becomes obsolete. They've been able to make Madison Square Garden work for quite awhile in NYC, no reason we can't do the same here, just maybe not with the Peake without a Key arena, strip to the core kind of makeover (which wasn't a forward thinking enough renovation, but you get the point).

yep .. we will likely build a new arena .. in 2030ish time frame or the lead item for MAPS 5

[warreng88]

The arena is the the middle of the entire complex. The largest exhibit halls are on the west side of the building. The smaller ballrooms and meeting rooms are on the north side of the property. If the entire area except for the arena (and underground parking of course) were to be torn down, we would still have a huge arena in at the intersection of California and Broadway. If you want to go to googlemaps.com and look at it, picture everthing but the tallest part in the middle being gone. I think we would be better off clearing the whole four square blocks and starting from scratch. Maybe build a new smaller arena (7-10,000) on one of the blocks, but it would have to be done right since the CCC is so pedestrian unfriendly.

[OKCisOK4me]

It doesn't necessarily have to be an street for cars but with no alley there would have to be room for delivery trucks which would have some kind of delivery time restrictions.

I did say a while back in one of these threads, they could be pedestrian/cycling corridors. Doesn't Vegas have a street like that? It used to be open and now it has that domed video graphics board ceiling. I don't think we'd need to do that, just keep a nice and open line of site between the intermodal hub and the MBG and a line of site down Broadway to the arena. Build some grand hotel on one plot to be associated with the arena. It would be like, but not twin to, Dallas' American Airlines Center setup.

[warreng88]

I did say a while back in one of these threads, they could be pedestrian/cycling corridors. Doesn't Vegas have a street like that? It used to be open and now it has that domed video graphics board ceiling.

Freemont street

[Just the facts]

I am thinking of something like this. It isn't a street open to traffic but it has the look and feel of a street which includes a simulated curb and sidewalk (although I would prefer a real curb and sidewalk). Delivery trucks can use the 'street' before 8AM to make deliveries to stores but after that it is pedestrian only.

Sorry for the picture size - I didn't know it was that big

[Teo9969]

Simulated curb? That's drainage...

And why on earth would you want "real curbs" in a pedestrian walk-way?

[Just the facts]

I doubt it is drainage but I guess it could be. As for real curbs and sidewalks vs. simulated curbs and sidewalks, I like real stuff where possible. Plus, with real features it could function as a real street if need be.

Either way - this would be better than the Cox Center.

[OKCisOK4me]

All the people in that photo above, make up the same amount of people in downtown OKC streets on any given day. Build the residential first in core to shore areas and what not and then build this commercial area up. I think it would be great for downtown!

I doubt it is drainage but I guess it could be. As for real curbs and sidewalks vs. simulated curbs and sidewalks, I like real stuff where possible. Plus, with real features it could function as a real street if need be.

Either way - this would be better than the Cox Center.

You're an agent aren't you? If there aren't real objects then we'll find out that we really are in the matrix, right??

[Just the facts]

Build the residential first in core to shore areas and what not and then build this commercial area up. I think it would be great for downtown!

There is no reason the Cox site itself can't be mixed-use. The retail only takes up the first floor. Everything above that would be office, housing, or even a hotel. The Cox site represent the single best location to establish serious downtown retail because of the adjacent transit hub. In the not to distant future people all over the metro will be able to get there without having to worry about a parking space, plus all of the people that can either live on-site or within easy walking distance.