Dowell Center

[Spartan]

To be fair, Nick has spent alot of time in Calgary and I would guess spending alot of time there would make most of us wish we had better developments!Calgary has about the same metro population as OKC but is GIANT in architecture and urbanism,I think Nick just want's way more for OKC and gets bummed out alot from what is developed here!

Having met Nick, he's very passionate about OKC and is constantly advocating for its' betterment.

Thanks, Steve. This is correct, sometimes I do get a little bummed out. It's hard for me to sometimes avoid posts that come off as a little sarcastic or annoyed. Not to be condescending, but I do regard OKC as a place that is 10 years behind the times, and I regard Calgary as a place that is 10 years ahead of the times--so do the math, that's 20 years. That's a huge difference. Maybe I need a closet full of astronaut suits in Calgary, and a closet full of parachute pants in OKC.

[Spartan]

Spartan, what's your opinion of the following Dowell properties?
- The old Bob Moore Cadillac Building
- The old Fred Jones Body Shop building
- The old Fred Jones Lincoln dealership
- His new two-story building next to Legacy
- The old shopping center strip also known as the old OG&E storage building
- The little gas station
- The motel turned offices
- Dowell Center (which I think I know)

I think his stuff is fantastic. I like almost everything he has done along Walker. I like the building he doing right now and may someday complete on the edge of SoSA. I don't think much of his project in Norman, I've had some friends who have considered him a slum landlord for his apartment complex there.

I don't really like the motel though. I do actually like the 50s-style beige building across the street, though, whichever that is.

[Steve]

I'm not very familiar with Dowell's Norman properties. Here's how I would grade his downtown OKC work:
- The old Bob Moore Cadillac Building - B (would rank higher if he engaged the wide sidewalk, which he may someday still do)
- The old Fred Jones Body Shop building - B+
- The old Fred Jones Lincoln dealership - C-
- His new two-story building next to Legacy - B-
- The old shopping center strip also known as the old OG&E storage building - A
- The little gas station - A+
- The motel turned offices - B+ (give him credit for taking an old flop motel and adapting it into outlet offices for law firms, etc.)
- Dowell Center (which I think I know) - too soon to say yet

[Bailey80]

But, if we're voting on the ugliest downtown buildings, my 1st place vote would have to go to the Southwestern Bell building built in 1957, now Oklahoma DEQ ...

There are far uglier buildings downtown in my opinion. What about Santa Fe Plaza, or the Veolia Energy cogeneration plant across the street? One of the city's ugliest corners in my opinion.
One thing to keep in mind about Rick Dowell, he once told me that just about every development project he's done is self-financed, which is pretty amazing I think.

[Steve]

Yep, that's right.

[Spartan]

I'm not very familiar with Dowell's Norman properties. Here's how I would grade his downtown OKC work:
- The old Bob Moore Cadillac Building - B (would rank higher if he engaged the wide sidewalk, which he may someday still do)
- The old Fred Jones Body Shop building - B+
- The old Fred Jones Lincoln dealership - C-
- His new two-story building next to Legacy - B-
- The old shopping center strip also known as the old OG&E storage building - A
- The little gas station - A+
- The motel turned offices - B+ (give him credit for taking an old flop motel and adapting it into outlet offices for law firms, etc.)
- Dowell Center (which I think I know) - too soon to say yet

You know, that sidewalk in front of the Cadillac Bldg is almost a wind-swept plaza. It seems like often the problem is not enough sidewalk, but I see this sidewalk as a real opportunity going forward. However I know that Dowell isn't going to attract the kind of tenants that would utilize that. Maybe that will change, but it would be a great building for retail, restaurant, ideally maybe a bookstore/cafe type thing (Walker NEEDS a streetcar branch for crying out loud). But he's not too wild on the whole "arts district" idear.

I'll go ahead and go through some of these like you did. One of the things about Dowell is I'm just not that familiar with the BEFORE of his work in most cases, for instance I don't really know which Fred Jones bldg is which. I know he has done a LOT of historic alteration as well, often recladding entire buildings that didn't need to be reclad. A rule of thumb is that his projects don't make any sense but often turn out pretty decent.

I just don't see how this Dowell Center project can turn out well though. That facade is hideous and always will be hideous. I hate the window rows, I hate the sheet paneling that the windows are shrouded in, I hate the brick strips (I didn't even realize it was brick until Pete pointed that out), and so on. I read your latest blog post though, and I would have expected the walls to be covered in that ugly dark brown wainscoting crap that the 60s wants back, and NOT travertine marble. I think the building could be turned into a great Park Harvey-style apartment project if all these things were changed and the supposed strengths of this building were brought to the forefront.

But here's the thing: Dowell claims his "midtown" downtown properties are mixed-use, but they're not. He hasn't attempted any "real" mixed-use downtown. Where's the retail? Where's the restaurants? Where's the residential? No R's, just different types of office. Law office. Medical office. Business office. His office. And so on. I know I'm making a blanket categorization which is never 100% true, but still. Office is just his strength, he works a lot with his tenants, and maybe some of his projects could be considered flex space? I think that comes from his economist background, and finding out what the need is with small businesses.


I think the Cadillac Building is A-. I really liked how the top floor addition was cascaded, yet matched the original design. Almost a relief to see a Dowell addition to a historic building not look strange. This project is bigger than I realized too, apparently 70,000 sf with 150 on-site parking spaces? This photo is weird because I can tell it's scrunched, making the sidewalk look even wider than it is (and the skyscrapers behind it look really blunt/squatty more so than usual).


This one is weird to me, but I like it. Ideally the building layout would be inverted to hug the street corner, and it's a nice building. I like the beige brick that reminds me of the CU campus. I think he should have put the parking in the back of the building. B-


I'll give him props for keeping this building that most people wouldn't see value in it. We're really going to appreciate this mid-century architecture a lot more here in a few years. BUT I think that Chip Fudge took a nearly identical building, the Hart Bldg, and did a much classier renovation. This is bland. This is classic Dowell. It needs more ornamentation, but not a big clock tower. This is also a more attractive building from 6th than from Walker. B-


Pretty simple renovation here. I actually like the clock. The parking around it is odd though, because it's almost like he intended for this to be the "town square" of his little "midtown plaza." A-, just because of the parking around the clock tower. It's not bad parking though, at least it's well-landscaped.


Gas station gets an A+. This had to be a fun little renovation.


The old Lincoln dealership is a beaut. I think this is the crown piece of this intersection, afterall, this is where he put his offices. I'm not sure why your grade was a lot lower, but I understand he did some significant alterations? I think it would look a lot better with the white cornice and columns against red brick (I imagine that was the original color?) but it's nice as it is. A


Not a fan, but it's not hideous. I imagine it was a huge improvement, but still not a fan. C


I kinda like what he's doing here. The new facade on this building (this is the one on the edge of SoSA that he's been working on forever) is alright, but I like the red brick better. To each their own, and this is one of those instances where you DO absolutely defer taste-wise to the guy with the money, obviously. This looks just as ridiculous as the next building though because of how obvious the new edifice is. Eh, B-/B.


This building's front facade looks ridiculous. I never really notice it because 4th E/W just isn't an important corridor, but it's going to get a lot more noticeable if the streetcar goes through there. The rounded off windows look stupid, and I hate those. You can really tell how much better the old facade. Still, the building is standing, it is well-renovated, sturdy, still looks historic, blends well with his other properties, and is just as well-landscaped. For those things alone I will give him a B-.


Again, no doubt he's done good work in the past. Balking at one project of his isn't an indictment of everything he's done or even personally-intended. I really liked this pic from Google. If there was a historic building that had to come into the possession of Rick Dowell, Nick Preftakes (right now), or Chris Johnson--I would hope for it to belong to Dowell, because at least it will be predictable. With Preftakes, we won't know and he'll hold his cards too close to his chest. Johnson or many others would be would be a disaster.

[mcca7596]

Where exactly is that building by SoSA (cross streets)?

[Steve]

501 N Walker before it was renovated by Dowell. Something I've long wanted to do is to show a photo of a similar style and vintage Lincoln or Ford dealership I once saw in Fort Worth (Googie architecture on both?) that was restored instead of being stripped down and re-imagined as Dowell did on this property. Unfortunately, after driving by the property several years back, I've not been able to figure out what it is I saw. Architects, Fort Worth folks, can you help out on this?

[jbrown84]

Wow! Had no idea it used to look like that. I assumed the European look was original.

[Spartan]

Oh wow. Surprise!

[Urbanized]

It was a great mid-century building that was (in my opinion) completely ruined by the remodel. It's nice that he wanted a high finish and all, but that was a clear-cut case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," which should have not passed design review.

I also take issue with the removal of the great casement windows in the old Cadillac dealership. If you want to see how much better the retention of authentic casements makes a similar building look, check out the Midtown Renaissance projects like 1101 N. Broadway building done by the Midtown Renaissance people. The photo on that flyer shows the old windows, before restoration. If you drive by now you can see the carefully re-glazed casements, which are fantastic and create a historic, urban feel that can't be matched by large tinted panes clear of mullions. There are other examples of restored casements downtown, and those rehabs are dramatically superior to those where the windows were "modernized."

Rick has also done some other, more tasteful remodels of historic buildings, but those buildings - especially the old F-J Lincoln Mercury dealership - pain me when I drive by.

Incidentally, until that Lincoln-Merc point was moved to the (now defunct) Ford dealership property south of the MBG, it was the oldest continuously-operating Lincoln dealership in the U.S., in that location. Those Fred Jones dealerships had some incredible history attached.

[jbrown84]

Totally agree about the windows!

[Spartan]

You know, this has turned into a really fascinating thread for me, personally. I consider myself to have a pretty good memory of downtown projects in the post-MAPS era, but this was totally new to me. We all need to be reminded how much we don't know on a regular basis. There was a lot of development 1980-2000 that we just don't realize because we've had this "There was no development during this period!" version of things pounded into our heads.

Another building with some incredible authentic casements is the old F-J plant on Classen. I hope that building some day gets renovated and finds a higher use, the right way.

I am more and more shocked that he didn't put a new facade on his office building at 6th and Walker, the big beige building on the NE corner. OR that he's not putting a new facade on the Dowell Center.

[Urban Pioneer]

Where exactly is that building by SoSA (cross streets)?

5th and Dewey (NE corner). It was an old apt building at one time. Destined to be more office space per Dowell unless he builds a apt building next door. In that case, it would be part of that complex if that happens as residential. Also, he is planning on adding a pitched tile roof like some of the other buildings.

[mcca7596]

Thanks UP, it would be great if he would develop just one housing project and/or retail space.

[BoulderSooner]

big over reach by city staff a change from brick to EIFS with out discussion

6. DTCA-11-00092, at 250 N Robinson Ave (DBD), by Pierre Derenoncourt for Midland Center LP for revision to original Certificate of Approval to install EIFS in place of originally approved brick veneer on upper levels of the east elevation; and modify the proposed work to reflect only floors 13 to 18 at east elevation.
7. DTCA-11-00092, at 250 N Robinson Ave (DBD), by Pierre Derenoncourt for Midland Center LP, for second revision to original Certificate of Approval to delete previously approved window systems in upper levels of east elevation; install metal panel systems in lieu of windows in same configuration and location at rear elevation.

this is an overreach by city staff IMHO

this is from the latest downtown design review agenda for feb 16th .. section 8 Administrative Approval Report

[Just the facts]

ROFLMAO - "install metal panel systems in lieu of windows "

[bombermwc]

It's so nice to see people that have nothing to do with these projects putting their "grades" on them. Especially since those same people aren't putting a dime into doing any projects to restore anything downtown. I was worried that someone might do something without getting the all important stamp of approval.

NOT

[metro]

Can someone translate the changes in layman's terms?

[catch22]

Can someone translate the changes in layman's terms?

Yes please...

[Urban Pioneer]

It sounds to me as though perhaps putting windows in on the east side of that building might have been more complicated than they thought. Did the east side ever have functional windows historically?

While Rick would never do it, it would be a great opportunity to do a cool mural or modern facade/cladding. I'll bet if Rogers Marvel knew about it, they would probably have an opinion.

[metro]

Someone that knows all this lingo should shoot RM an email. Jeff you up for it?

[BoulderSooner]

the windows change doesn't bother me .. however the change from brick to EIFS is a huge one .. and IMHO should not just be rubber stamped by city staff

[Urban Pioneer]

Someone that knows all this lingo should shoot RM an email. Jeff you up for it?

I can't get involved in that. Rick is a client and a friend. Just expressing my candid opinion on the aesthetics of it. Just pointing it out publicly in the event that Sandridge reads these threads and can help him "make it better".

[metro]

Point well taken. I still then a well executed letter would bode well to our Sandridge PR contact and to Rogers Marvel. Craft the letter and I'll sign off on it. You understand the lingo of the biz better than I.