The Citizen

[sroberts24]

I just checked and they are still going back and forth with the city so they can get their building permit approved.

It's a normal process that takes a bit of time with bigger projects.

I know they are anxious to start and they recently received approval for their TIF grant.

I've got a buddy that does some development work, he said OKC is a nightmare to deal with when it comes to permits and approvals compared to Tulsa.

[BG918]

I've got a buddy that does some development work, he said OKC is a nightmare to deal with when it comes to permits and approvals compared to Tulsa.

And Tulsa is pretty difficult even though Bynum has streamlined some parts of the process. Meanwhile it’s a breeze in the suburban communities.

[Pete]

In OKC, the biggest issue is the large number of permits always being filed.

They all have to be thoroughly checked, and many times the applicant has to provide updates, etc.

It's a process you can't rush due to engineering requirements, building codes, etc. The codes and rules exist to make sure things are done right.

In my experience if there is a delay, it is due to an incomplete or inaccurate application.

[Mississippi Blues]

That checks out. In my personal experiences on the west coast, the most difficult cities to build in also align with the activity in each, those being (1)San Francisco (2)Seattle (3)Portland. The more projects on the agenda, the more difficult it is to get to the construction phase.

That also ignores the additional hassles due to the politics that are born out of skyrocketing costs, limited land, and environmental concerns.

Having spent ~5 years going between those cities, I dang near feel like I should be throwing a party to celebrate any sort of progress even though I’m not on those projects.

[Rover]

I've got a buddy that does some development work, he said OKC is a nightmare to deal with when it comes to permits and approvals compared to Tulsa.

Curious as to what your buddy thinks the nightmare parts of OKCs permitting process is and what Tulsa does so much better. I honestly don’t think we want to be cutting corners in commercial construction.

[onthestrip]

Curious as to what your buddy thinks the nightmare parts of OKCs permitting process is and what Tulsa does so much better. I honestly don’t think we want to be cutting corners in commercial construction.

Its not about cutting corners, just a smooth and responsive permitting process. Just getting someone of the phone to discuss something can take a long time, and since covid its difficult to talk to someone face to face.

[Rover]

Its not about cutting corners, just a smooth and responsive permitting process. Just getting someone of the phone to discuss something can take a long time, and since covid its difficult to talk to someone face to face.

I’ve been through the process in other places, but not OKC.. it can be tedious everywhere that is thorough. Is OKCs issue the lack of enough support people, the professionalism of staff, the flow and scheduling, the lack of ability to file documents online, other?

[sroberts24]

Curious as to what your buddy thinks the nightmare parts of OKCs permitting process is and what Tulsa does so much better. I honestly don’t think we want to be cutting corners in commercial construction.

The group he is invested with has a lot of developments in Tulsa they have done and are now doing some in Paseo here. Mentioned that just getting people to do their inspections and going through the permit process is a nightmare in OKC compared to what they have done in Tulsa. Has taken twice as long and just not as easy to work with, believe from the communication and follow through side of things. Nothing to do with cutting corners. I'll try to get more details.

[Rover]

The group he is invested with has a lot of developments in Tulsa they have done and are now doing some in Paseo here. Mentioned that just getting people to do their inspections and going through the permit process is a nightmare in OKC compared to what they have done in Tulsa. Has taken twice as long and just not as easy to work with, believe from the communication and follow through side of things. Nothing to do with cutting corners. I'll try to get more details.

I find that most systems work pretty well if before you get started in the process you learn all that is required and in what forms, and then give complete information. I believe everything can be submitted electronically in the OKC system as it is done in most places. Familiarity always seems to make things go easier. It always seemed the second and third projects went smoother than the first, no matter where we were.

[soonerguru]

The group he is invested with has a lot of developments in Tulsa they have done and are now doing some in Paseo here. Mentioned that just getting people to do their inspections and going through the permit process is a nightmare in OKC compared to what they have done in Tulsa. Has taken twice as long and just not as easy to work with, believe from the communication and follow through side of things. Nothing to do with cutting corners. I'll try to get more details.

This is disappointing to hear. I know it's a subject that has been discussed by city political leadership in the past.

I have had a couple of situations involving permitting, both myself and a small business owner I know, and I have reached out to city hall to get help on them. In both cases, the situations were resolved favorably once I lodged a complaint.

I wonder if it's like a game of whack a mole in which there really aren't enough inspectors, and the squeakiest wheels get the grease. Some people are reluctant to complain.

[king183]

When I was working with a well-known, reputable company to do a large project on my house, they told me the City's staff can be difficult to work with when it comes to scheduling and communication. Otherwise, the City seemed to meet deadlines for review and issuance of permits pretty much on the schedule we were told would happen.

[Pete]

Work is starting:

[HFAA Alum]

Well well well, they sure aren't beating around the bush with this one.

[Laramie]

Need help . . . Am I reading this correctly--The Citizen will top out at 276 feet which is one foot taller than the United Founder's Tower @ 275 feet.

List Tallest Buildings in Oklahoma City: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._Oklahoma_City

[KayneMo]

Need help . . . Am I reading this correctly--The Citizen will top out at 276 feet which is one foot taller than the United Founder's Tower @ 275 feet.

List Tallest Buildings in Oklahoma City: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._Oklahoma_City

276'-10" minus 98'-6" so it will be just over 178' tall.

[Laramie]

276'-10" minus 98'-6" so it will be just over 178' tall.

Thanks KayneMo

[PaddyShack]

Work is starting:

Did they really need to block off the street for this type of construction? I know this is not part of the active route for the streetcar, but can't they build buildings with out overflowing into the street like this?

[HFAA Alum]

Probably not because of the need for a staging area, plus places for latrines, survey, and security. Not only that but I believe it gives a lane for concrete trucks and the like to be able to flow in and out of the staging area. Can't do all of that in the very area you're going to build because the designated space is already small to begin with. And unlike places like New York City, the sidewalks aren't as wide where you can stage out and not disrupt street traffic. It's a pretty give-and-take situation that's unfortunately predicated on the easement allotted to an exclusive walking space which OKC doesn't have enough of.

[kevin lee]

Did they really need to block off the street for this type of construction? I know this is not part of the active route for the streetcar, but can't they build buildings with out overflowing into the street like this?

In October I parked in the garage and my EV ran out of juice. I walked down and sat next to the wall for three hours waiting for my tow. In the three hours a grand total of 2 people walked pass me.

[HFAA Alum]

Yikes, didn't expect that area to be so lifeless. Maybe this development would change that for the better.

[corntortillas]

Yikes, didn't expect that area to be so lifeless. Maybe this development would change that for the better.

It's not lifeless over there. The memorial is actively used. Robinson is a relatively busy street. There's just not a lot of vehicular traffic traveling west on 5th since it is not a thru-way and terminates at the memorial.

Seems smart that they are utilizing the west bound traffic lane on 5th (very little vehicle traffic) and have not eliminated any traffic lanes on Robinson (more vehicle traffic)

[HFAA Alum]

Okay, fair enough.

[Pete]

Interestingly, there is a streetcar track on the north side of NW 5th that is blocked by the barriers.

I believe this is just a shortcut in case there is a blockage to the north but I'm surprised the city is allowing the track to be barricaded.

[BoulderSooner]

Interestingly, there is a streetcar track on the north side of NW 5th that is blocked by the barriers.

I believe this is just a shortcut in case there is a blockage to the north but I'm surprised the city is allowing the track to be barricaded.

that is a street car turnaround for emergency operations and if you look they left gates where a street car could use that track if needed ..

that type of operation would take lots of personal with or with out their fencing so moving the gate would not be a huge deal

[josefromtulsa]

Interestingly, there is a streetcar track on the north side of NW 5th that is blocked by the barriers.

I believe this is just a shortcut in case there is a blockage to the north but I'm surprised the city is allowing the track to be barricaded.

Im also wondering if constant construction traffic driving over the tracks at the point where it bends will cause some damage to the concrete or rails...