OKC has already exceeded homicide total from 2011

[Teo9969]

Not a point that is probably worth arguing about but I have to disagree. We are not a violent society. I've been to a few of those. By what measurement do you mean?

We are not a violent society. We are society that loves violence.

[LakeEffect]

We just recorded homicide #72, this is getting out of hand. To put it in perspective, 75 homicides in 2009 were the most from 2000-2010. At this rate, we might tip 100 homicides for 2012, that's not good. But for whatever reason, homicide rates slow down in the winter months. The City definitely needs to get a grasp on this.

That doesn't take into account the other suspicious death this morning that happened after a fight. It might take a while to determine if the fight caused the death... if it does, we're at 73.

[Teo9969]

Right, but you are equivocating. Otherwise why mention it?

I wasn't affirming or denying JTF's claim, simply clarifying the point to reality. While we may not be a violent society on the whole, we do have an affinity for violence.

If I were to argue a point, it would be that the affinity for violence that we have subverts our ability to experience any sort of incumbent horror when violence takes place. The buzz word would be "desensitized". We hear about a shooting, we move about our day...For the people who actually commit the acts, there has developed this sense that violence taking place in the world is normative, such that it doesn't take a complete psychopath to commit such an egregious act. The sad thing is that we can actually figure out a reason for the death of Mr. Yousif other than the perpetrator was just utterly insane. If there had been no cars, there would have likely been no death.

[Dubya61]

If there had been no cars, there would have likely been no death.

Although I despise how some would take a single statement and derail a discussion, here I go: Are you saying that we need car control? This is the same as gun control right? Mr. Yousif can't be held responsible for his own acts because we have a society that is desensitized to violence and we drive cars. I don't buy it. We must be just as civil to our fellow human beings in cars (and on the internet, etc.) as on the sidewalk in face-to-face interaction. The car CANNOT be the fulcrum of blame, here.

[Teo9969]

Although I despise how some would take a single statement and derail a discussion, here I go: Are you saying that we need car control? This is the same as gun control right? Mr. Yousif can't be held responsible for his own acts because we have a society that is desensitized to violence and we drive cars. I don't buy it. We must be just as civil to our fellow human beings in cars (and on the internet, etc.) as on the sidewalk in face-to-face interaction. The car CANNOT be the fulcrum of blame, here.

Simply put, that's not at all what I said.

*a* reason...not *the* reason

[Just the facts]

You guys can argue semantics all you want - I stand by the violent society comment. That doesn't mean every person in it is violent. I'm not violent but I still lock my doors every night. When I lived in Healdton in the early '80s our house didn't even have locks. Whoever built the house in the 50's didn't even think they were necessary. Not only do houses have locks today, we have deadbolts and security alarm system.

[CaptDave]

We are not a violent society. We are society that loves violence.

This is truth - look at what we do for "entertainment".

80,000+ people screaming loudest when a 20 year old kid nearly gets his head taken off trying to carry a ball across a line on the ground.... gets the blood pumping when they can hear the contact in the upper deck.

It starts when the kids are much younger - people love to see their kid knock the crap out of another.

I am not a gamer, but I would bet the most popular video games are the most violent.

What leads the local news? "If it bleeds it leads"

How many people cheer when they watch that Ersland clown pump rounds into a kid (who was wrong) he had already shot in the head?

Far too many are quick to support committing troops because they honestly think war looks like it does on the game console or movie screen. Give them a taste of the smell, the chaos, and actual noise - then put their kids in that situation, and maybe we would think before we act.

As a society we have become desensitized to violence because it pervades many aspects of our lives and we often don't notice. I may be a little more sensitive (overly sensitive even?) to it than many, but I have my reasons.

[Just the facts]

No doubt that the media plays a big part in the fear factor, not just in reporting it, but actually promoting it. You know as well as me that when a camera is around troublemakers come out of the woodwork. America has been going down the wrong path for a long time and it has a lot of momentum behind it. Turning something this big around will be hard so I just try to be the best citizen I can be and try to be a good example to others. Part of that is giving up on violent movies. I refuse to watch them. Am I wasting my time? Maybe, but I feel better.

Quick side story - A friend of mine asked me to go to the movies with him. He wanted to go see Batman. I told him I don't like movies where people are killed. I think it devalues Human life and is hurting our society. He agreed. 2 days later he saw it with someone else. Addiction? Maybe.

[ShiroiHikari]

I really don't think violent movies or video games have anything to do with people being violent. People were violent long before movies and video games came along.

[Just the facts]

I really don't think violent movies or video games have anything to do with people being violent. People were violent long before movies and video games came along.

Not in this country they weren't.

[Edmond_Outsider]

Culture is always the easiest thing to blame but if it were truely able to "desensitize" people, why are our military people continuing to react to violence the same ways they have since battle trauma was called "nostalgia," shell shock, battle fatigue, etc?

Ozzy and Judas Preist caused suicides and violent behavior 30 years ago, remember? Probably not. In 1975, a silly one bit video game called Death Race 2000 was banned all over the county including in Tulsa where I played it. Comic books were the presumed culprit in the 1950s and thier content was censored as a result.

The first amendement has been continually and easily tread upon as a result of the hysteria surrounding the false relationship between culture and violence.

However, if one looks at reality as reflected in uniform crime statistics, we are not getting more violent. Violent crime has gone down over the past 50 years.

While cultural changes can not be tied to crime, economics can. The worse our ecomomic situation, the more crime, more drug addiction, more divorce, more everything undesireable.

It is far simpler and easier to quantify than the more easily whipped whippng boy of culture.

I will say that one aspect of culture does influence folks in the US and is quantifiable--our collective love of firearms and the power of those who make and sell them. Today, weapons of mass violence are cheaper and easier to obtain than ever before and that availablity continues to increase.
This, by itself, does not cause violence, it most certainly enables those with unstable mental conditions to kill more faster and easier than ever.

This was not possible 30 years ago. This is a change which does directly affect the sort of violence we have today.

It is interesting that the second ammendment will trump the first almost every time. We, as a society, love our guns far more than we love our freedom of speech and expression.

That is strange in my eyes.

[Just the facts]

nm

[ljbab728]

And then there is this.

Violent crimes in Oklahoma fell last year to the lowest level in a decade, according to statistics released Friday by the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation.



Read more: Violent crime in Oklahoma is at 10-year low, 2011 statistics show | NewsOK.com

[BG918]

Homicide near the Plaza District when a girl and her boyfriend tried to stop someone breaking into their car:
Woman fatally shot Friday night in northwest Oklahoma City | NewsOK.com

[Just the facts]

Let me ask a question about the crime report because I have no idea how it works. Let's say a woman reports a rape, there is a trial, and the person plea deals a charge of aggravated sexual assault (or whatever it might be). Does that go in this report as a rape or does it go down as aggravated sexual assault? What about someone charged with aggravated sexual assault that plead down to something else. Does that just fall off the radar completely? What if it is a gang rape by 20 people? Is that counted as one rape, or 20 rapes? The Ersland case was 3 murder convictions for one death. How is that reported?

[kevinpate]

Never sat down with the report. I suspect Ms. Brown with OSBI would know.
Best guess using your examples -

Ersland case = 1 murder recorded. If report tracks charges/convictions, then 3 M convictions, plus convictions re the related charges that existed.

Gang rape = 20 rapes, though perhaps more than 20 (i.e. one or more actors commit multiple distinct acts sufficiently separated to qualify as separate acts.)

[Hawk405359]

I think aggravated sexual assaults and rape all go under the banner of sex crimes when being reported.

As for how cases with multiple defendants work... I really don't know about that, that's a great question. I'd assume by the number of victims, but I can't say that for sure.

[Bunty]

We just recorded homicide #72, this is getting out of hand. To put it in perspective, 75 homicides in 2009 were the most from 2000-2010. At this rate, we might tip 100 homicides for 2012, that's not good. But for whatever reason, homicide rates slow down in the winter months. The City definitely needs to get a grasp on this.

So aren't murders getting out of crime in most other big cities in the country?

[disinfected]

#77 last night.

[Roadhawg]

#77 last night.

I saw that... still 10 weeks to go

[LakeEffect]

The Oklahoman ran a series of articles/blog posts over the weekend as our homicide count grew larger.

Oklahoma City's 2012 homicide rate on track to be one of the highest in 20 years | NewsOK.com

Oklahoma City homicides: By the numbers | NewsOK.com

And now, this morning, the 87th homicide of 2012 was recorded: UPDATE: One dead and one wounded in northwest Oklahoma City shootings Monday | NewsOK.com

[Spartan]

I agree every loss of life is a problem. I meant, there's not a new growing "problem". Nothing is "out of control" if the percentage is the same. There is always room for improvement though.

Huh?? Our homicide rate is skyrocketing and has been all year long. Denying this is really quite head in the sand..

[soonerguru]

Huh?? Our homicide rate is skyrocketing and has been all year long. Denying this is really quite head in the sand..

What do you attribute this to?

Our local economy is about as good as it's ever been.

Have a lot of gang members recently been paroled? Is there a "new" gang problem that is yet to be addressed? Is our failure to add more police officers catching up to us?

Perversely, could our good economy be attracting more crime to our city?

The Oklahoman series didn't provide a lot of answers.

[LakeEffect]

What do you attribute this to?

Our local economy is about as good as it's ever been.

Have a lot of gang members recently been paroled? Is there a "new" gang problem that is yet to be addressed? Is our failure to add more police officers catching up to us?

Perversely, could our good economy be attracting more crime to our city?

The Oklahoman series didn't provide a lot of answers.

Well, telling the whole story would probably require The Oklahoman to write a 400 page book.

Some of the early homicides were murder-suicides, which is not a gang-related issue. I like your questions...

[soonerguru]

Well, telling the whole story would probably require The Oklahoman to write a 400 page book.

Some of the early homicides were murder-suicides, which is not a gang-related issue. I like your questions...

Good point. I don't really have an educated opinion on this matter, but I'm curious what others think is causing this. By the way, it may have been mentioned upthread, but has our ratio of homicides related to population increased as well, or just the overall total?