New Streetcar Routes in Other Cities

[betts]

My point exactly, because the street car will not be operational for another ten years anyway, why not plan ahead instead of waiting until MAPS 5.

Perhaps you've missed a couple of posts here. The streetcar will be operational in five to six years. Phase two will not be completed for ten years. As has been said, you have to weigh economic development with need. If people don't ride the streetcar because it's going to areas that aren't developed at all, economic development won't occur there. There has to be a balance. The streetcar has to go to places of interest, places people work or live and ideally, go through areas that aren't completely developed. If you've got time (but watch out for sunstroke!) walk down Broadway from 13th to about fourth. Look west and see what exists on the cross streets between Broadway and Robinson. Then walk back up Robinson to 13th St. I think you'll see plenty of opportunities for economic development. The couplet system will make the east-west streets between Broadway and Robinson much more frequently accessed by people downtown and I think it won't be long before there's interest in buildings or land on them.

[ljbab728]

That is what I am saying. If there was a final route selected BEFORE the MAPS III vote there would be nothing to debate except when constuction starts.

You have to be kidding. You actually think that would have prevented any criticism or debate on this forum? LOL
Nothing stops it.

[Skyline]

Add Kansas City to the growing list of Cities with future Streetcar.

Streetcars could be running in downtown KC by 2015
By BRAD COOPER
The Kansas City Star

After years of fruitlessly fighting for sprawling light-rail plans, Kansas City is moving swiftly to build a smaller rail line linking Union Station to the River Market area.

The project is gaining momentum as two possible routes — one on Main Street and the other on Grand Boulevard — have emerged as favorites.

City officials would like to pick a route next month with an eye toward possibly starting rail service in 2015

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/08/21...#ixzz1VsLfksJp

Also, why have we not seen a Modern Streetcar available for display somewhere in downtown Okc?

I've seen where other cities that are promoting a future streetcar are able to bring an actual modern streetcar and place it somewhere for the public to view it inside and out. It would seem to me that something like this would really jump start a promotion for educating the Okc citizens about the benefits of the modern streetcar.

[BoulderSooner]

Add Kansas City to the growing list of Cities with future Streetcar.




Also, why have we not seen a Modern Streetcar available for display somewhere in downtown Okc?

I've seen where other cities that are promoting a future streetcar are able to bring an actual modern streetcar and place it somewhere for the public to view it inside and out. It would seem to me that something like this would really jump start a promotion for educating the Okc citizens about the benefits of the modern streetcar.

one of the reasons that cities do that is so they can gain support before the public vote to fund the building of the system ... we don't have that problem

[Just the facts]

Skyline - there is no reason for a demo streetcar in OKC - the funding has already been approved. OKC did it different than most cities. Usually cities put the entire plan together behind closed doors and then present a final vision to voters who either approve or reject the plan. OKC got the funding first and now they are trying to develop the plan. There have been some recent articles in Jax lately trying to build support for a downtown streetcar here. The problem is trying to find enough people who live 20 miles from downtown to help fund it.

[Urban Pioneer]

Add Kansas City to the growing list of Cities with future Streetcar.




Also, why have we not seen a Modern Streetcar available for display somewhere in downtown Okc?

I've seen where other cities that are promoting a future streetcar are able to bring an actual modern streetcar and place it somewhere for the public to view it inside and out. It would seem to me that something like this would really jump start a promotion for educating the Okc citizens about the benefits of the modern streetcar.

We actually were offered that opportunity and turned it down Skyline. It wasn't made public as we made the internal decision in an effort to avoid having such an event misconstrued as favoritism towards one company or another. Since the funding is there, we are about to go into procurement. Therefore, we are particularly sensitive with the process in an effort to get the best possible competitive results.

That doesn't mean that committee members aren't reaching out trying to gather up information about what types of system vehicles/technologies are available, but it does mean that any public events will probably be limited to elements that would avoid any sense of conflict.

[Skyline]

Thanks for answering the question.

I find that article very interesting in many ways.

Such as;

An estimated 16 U.S. cities operate streetcar lines, some that are modern and others of the vintage variety that have an early 20th century appeal.

Sixty others were planning streetcar routes as of 2010, according to the Community Streetcar Coalition, a group of cities and transit agencies that advocate federal funding of streetcars.

Also this;

For about 20 years, Kansas City has spent millions of dollars trying to develop light-rail plans that covered many miles and reached into different areas of the city.

This time, the city is focusing on a 2-mile route centered in downtown. It could eventually connect into a broader rail network — now under study — intended to connect downtown to the Missouri-side suburbs.

[Urban Pioneer]

San Antonio moves ahead with funding-


City Council approves rail plan

Posted: 10/21/2011

The City Council has approved a streetcar plan that will introduce a new mode of travel in downtown San Antonio.

In a 9 to 1 vote, Council members agreed to contribute $40 million to VIA Metropolitan Transit’s streetcar plans with an additional $15 million in funding coming from private entities through the development of a special assessment district along the alignment. This contribution is in addition to the $55 million already pledged by Bexar County and the $70 million that will be provided by VIA.

The streetcar system is part of the initial projects to be carried out in the first five years of the Long Range Comprehensive Transportation Plan. The alignment approved by City Council will serve the Pearl Brewery and will travel down Broadway to turn east at Hemisfair Park, ending up at the Robert Thompson Transit Station at the Alamodome.

Also, an article about the county chipping in this November-

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/loc...es-2262363.php

[MDot]

Good. San Antonio is a wonderful city and a streetcar will make it that more wonderful.

[Just the facts]

Interesting that they had two route proposal from two different groups and neither went with a couplet system. It should provide for good comparisons later.

[rcjunkie]

Good. San Antonio is a wonderful city and a streetcar will make it that more wonderful.

I agree, and maybe in the future we'll need a like system, but right now we don't have the population to support it.

[Urban Pioneer]

I agree, and maybe in the future we'll need a like system, but right now we don't have the population to support it.

Are you saying we should wait? I mean it will be at least 5 years before the public will be able to ride anything. I would hope that downtown's continued densification would mesh with the streetcar timing of becoming operational. Certainly, the professional projections are around 1,200 riders per day in the first opening months.

I'm not saying that I don't have concerns. But that is exactly why so many of use have pressed for it to traverse the most densest part of downtown rather than chasing "empty lots" as many have proposed.

[soonerguru]

Don't worry UP, rcjunkie is just a public transit hater.

[Just the facts]

I agree, and maybe in the future we'll need a like system, but right now we don't have the population to support it.

That is the beauty of transportation systems; growth occurs around them. The only question becomes, what kind of growth do you want? Automobile based growth requires vast amounts of land and infrastrucutre while rail based growth is compact and requires limited infrastructure. Seeing as how most taxpayers are close to being tapped out I say we switch to compact and limited.

[rcjunkie]

Don't worry UP, rcjunkie is just a public transit hater.

Soonerguru, you couldn't be more inaccurate on this one, I'm not a hater, but when we are nowhere near the required population to support said system, just not practical to build one.

FYI, a long time close friend (35 years), works for COTPA in management, he told me the other day the the average ridership on City Routes in the current system is 13 people. If that's what you call financially responsible, then my 3rd grade math teacher was wrong.

[Just the facts]

Does your friend give a reason for the low ridership?

[lasomeday]

I agree, and maybe in the future we'll need a like system, but right now we don't have the population to support it.

IF you build it they will come!

[LakeEffect]

Soonerguru, you couldn't be more inaccurate on this one, I'm not a hater, but when we are nowhere near the required population to support said system, just not practical to build one.

FYI, a long time close friend (35 years), works for COTPA in management, he told me the other day the the average ridership on City Routes in the current system is 13 people. If that's what you call financially responsible, then my 3rd grade math teacher was wrong.

Does that imply that transit in and of itself is wrong? No. It might mean that the current route system, route timing, etc. is not working and needs adjusting.

[Skyline]

Does your friend give a reason for the low ridership?

Could be that , American's love cars.

[Just the facts]

Maybe they do love cars. Then again, it might be because many people don't have a viable alternative so they are stuck with a car whether they love it or not.

[MDot]

Maybe they do love cars. Then again, it might be because many people don't have a viable alternative so they are stuck with a car whether they love it or not.

Did you just pretty much answer your own question? LOL

[Just the facts]

Did you just pretty much answer your own question? LOL

I knew the answer before I asked the question. I was wondering if COTPA knew the answer, and if they did, did they share it with rcjunkie.

[Skyline]

Maybe they do love cars. Then again, it might be because many people don't have a viable alternative so they are stuck with a car whether they love it or not.

I love mine! I just wish that I could find a decent place to park it along the canal while visiting Bricktown. LOL

[Just the facts]

Have you ever lived anywhere that you didn't need a car?

[Skyline]

Have you ever lived anywhere that you didn't need a car?

No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn. haha

Why would I live somewhere without a car?

I like cars, and I like to drive and park wherever I please.

Streetcars are fun, just like mopeds are fun too. The tourists will enjoy the experience.