Airport expansion news?

[y_h]

Add me to the list of those who do not believe that a "build it and they will come" philosophy is best when it comes to airport construction. As a matter of fact, it can have a downright negative effect.

Approximately 20 years ago St. Louis's principal commercial airport, Lambert International, was bustling. At the time it was the international HQ and principal hub for TWA. Lambert had 85 gates in all with about 70 of those being serviced by jet bridges since the overwhelming majority of flights were on mainliners including a fair share of jumbos such as L-1011's, DC-10's and 747's. A few years later, Southwest made a big push into St. Louis, sparking the airport authority to construct a temporary east terminal with 8 additional jet bridges. In 1988 the temporary east terminal was replaced with a brand new, state of the art structure replacing the 8 temporary gates with 16 permanent gates. Meanwhile, the powers that be in southwestern Illinois (representing the eastern quarter of the metro St. Louis population) felt that Lambert had reached maximum capacity and that a "reliever" airport should be built and serve a role not unlike that of Chicago Midway, or the southern California relievers such as Orange County, Burbank and Ontario. As a result, Mid America Airport went into service in 1997.

Well, we all know what happened to TWA - a series of bankruptcies was followed by an asset purchase by American Airlines. Seeing no need to have a hub in between its existing O'Hare and DFW outposts, American drastically reduced its St. Louis presence and has replaced most of its mainliners with RJ's - if I had to guess I'd say AA runs 80% of its STL flights with RJ's.

Today, Lambert is an absolute mess. Concourse C which during the 80's was the international concourse, is a virtual ghost town. It's jet bridges were configured to service jumbo jets and are now only able to service the occasional 757 that flies a regular route. Several of the jet bridges were dismantled about 2 years ago or cannibalized for parts for other still operational bridges in other areas of the airport. Suffice it to say that passengers arriving on the few flights that do still come into C are treated to a less than flattering first impression of STL. There are also vast stretches of Concourse D (TWA's main domestic concourse configured to service DC9's, 727's and the like) that are abandoned. Very few of the abandoned gates that passengers have to pass on their way to baggage claim are lit and most don't appear kept up at all. It's really quite embarassing and airport officials are only just now starting to address these problems. Meanwhile, over in SW Illinois, Mid America Airport sits virtually deserted. Allegiant Air flies occasional charters in and out. Other airlines (Great Plains, Pan Am) have attempted service there prior to fizzling out altogether. No major airline has ever even expressed a passing interest in utilizing the airport, and with the large scale availability of gates at Lambert, it's doubtful Mid America will ever enjoy any type of regular commercial service. Airlines looking to move into the St. Louis market or expand existing service have literally dozens of gates to choose from at Lambert.

The St. Louis example might be a bit of an extreme tale - clearly at the time of expansion and construction there was an articulable if now downright legitimate justification for airport expansion, however all it took was one event (in this case the downfall of TWA) to create a huge problem. Obviously nobody's advocating an expansion of Will Rogers to 85+ gates, however even a doubling of gates beyond the amount presently needed will create an image of a failed airport. So long as the space exists for expansion and there are plans on the books that can be utilized to build needed expansion, airlines will not overlook OKC as an expansion option. I think it's in Will Rogers's and OKC's best interest to focus on completing the ongoing phase of expansion and to concentrate on running a clean and efficient airport that gives the appearance of being busy but not overwhelmed. Obviously if all of the gates are constantly in use and airlines are clamoring for gate space, then there's justification for going ahead with the east concourse, but if not, I think it's best to perfect what you've got and hope that there's interest among the airlines to bring more and larger planes to OKC. A ghost town of an airport does nothing to impress out of town businesses who might be looking at your community - it makes you look like fools or has-beens.

In any event, I haven't flown into WRWA in over 12 years. I'm coming in the first week of November and I'm really looking forward to seeing the improvements. When I lived in OKC I really liked the "old" WRWA - it may have been small, but it was well run and I never felt like I had to get there an hour before my flight or fear missing it.

[mranderson]

That terminal will be filled without a hub in no time. Besides, the best reason for Oklahoma City to be a hub is because of our size and potential. And another excellent reason...

[ChristianConservative]

That terminal will be filled without a hub in no time.

With what traffic? Airlines are cutting flights, not expanding them.

Besides, the best reason for Oklahoma City to be a hub is because of our size and potential. And another excellent reason...

Nothing against you personally, but there's not a lot of intelligence in that statement. A more intelligent statement would be as follows: "the best reason for Oklahoma City to be a hub is if an airline signs on and has an interest in expanding the Oklahoma City market." Building a 50+ gate terminal or larger, as you have suggested, at a time when airlines are cutting flights and reducing hubs, is completely absurd. The last thing we want is a Crossroads Mall -esque airport.

[ChristianConservative]

Add me to the list of those who do not believe that a "build it and they will come" philosophy is best when it comes to airport construction. As a matter of fact, it can have a downright negative effect.

Approximately 20 years ago St. Louis's principal commercial airport, Lambert International, was bustling. At the time it was the international HQ and principal hub for TWA. Lambert had 85 gates in all with about 70 of those being serviced by jet bridges since the overwhelming majority of flights were on mainliners including a fair share of jumbos such as L-1011's, DC-10's and 747's. A few years later, Southwest made a big push into St. Louis, sparking the airport authority to construct a temporary east terminal with 8 additional jet bridges. In 1988 the temporary east terminal was replaced with a brand new, state of the art structure replacing the 8 temporary gates with 16 permanent gates. Meanwhile, the powers that be in southwestern Illinois (representing the eastern quarter of the metro St. Louis population) felt that Lambert had reached maximum capacity and that a "reliever" airport should be built and serve a role not unlike that of Chicago Midway, or the southern California relievers such as Orange County, Burbank and Ontario. As a result, Mid America Airport went into service in 1997.

Well, we all know what happened to TWA - a series of bankruptcies was followed by an asset purchase by American Airlines. Seeing no need to have a hub in between its existing O'Hare and DFW outposts, American drastically reduced its St. Louis presence and has replaced most of its mainliners with RJ's - if I had to guess I'd say AA runs 80% of its STL flights with RJ's.

Today, Lambert is an absolute mess. Concourse C which during the 80's was the international concourse, is a virtual ghost town. It's jet bridges were configured to service jumbo jets and are now only able to service the occasional 757 that flies a regular route. Several of the jet bridges were dismantled about 2 years ago or cannibalized for parts for other still operational bridges in other areas of the airport. Suffice it to say that passengers arriving on the few flights that do still come into C are treated to a less than flattering first impression of STL. There are also vast stretches of Concourse D (TWA's main domestic concourse configured to service DC9's, 727's and the like) that are abandoned. Very few of the abandoned gates that passengers have to pass on their way to baggage claim are lit and most don't appear kept up at all. It's really quite embarassing and airport officials are only just now starting to address these problems. Meanwhile, over in SW Illinois, Mid America Airport sits virtually deserted. Allegiant Air flies occasional charters in and out. Other airlines (Great Plains, Pan Am) have attempted service there prior to fizzling out altogether. No major airline has ever even expressed a passing interest in utilizing the airport, and with the large scale availability of gates at Lambert, it's doubtful Mid America will ever enjoy any type of regular commercial service. Airlines looking to move into the St. Louis market or expand existing service have literally dozens of gates to choose from at Lambert.

The St. Louis example might be a bit of an extreme tale - clearly at the time of expansion and construction there was an articulable if now downright legitimate justification for airport expansion, however all it took was one event (in this case the downfall of TWA) to create a huge problem. Obviously nobody's advocating an expansion of Will Rogers to 85+ gates, however even a doubling of gates beyond the amount presently needed will create an image of a failed airport. So long as the space exists for expansion and there are plans on the books that can be utilized to build needed expansion, airlines will not overlook OKC as an expansion option. I think it's in Will Rogers's and OKC's best interest to focus on completing the ongoing phase of expansion and to concentrate on running a clean and efficient airport that gives the appearance of being busy but not overwhelmed. Obviously if all of the gates are constantly in use and airlines are clamoring for gate space, then there's justification for going ahead with the east concourse, but if not, I think it's best to perfect what you've got and hope that there's interest among the airlines to bring more and larger planes to OKC. A ghost town of an airport does nothing to impress out of town businesses who might be looking at your community - it makes you look like fools or has-beens.

In any event, I haven't flown into WRWA in over 12 years. I'm coming in the first week of November and I'm really looking forward to seeing the improvements. When I lived in OKC I really liked the "old" WRWA - it may have been small, but it was well run and I never felt like I had to get there an hour before my flight or fear missing it.

Now this is what I call an in depth, intelligent discussion on the issue.

[mranderson]

With what traffic? Airlines are cutting flights, not expanding them.



Nothing against you personally, but there's not a lot of intelligence in that statement. A more intelligent statement would be as follows: "the best reason for Oklahoma City to be a hub is if an airline signs on and has an interest in expanding the Oklahoma City market." Building a 50+ gate terminal or larger, as you have suggested, at a time when airlines are cutting flights and reducing hubs, is completely absurd. The last thing we want is a Crossroads Mall -esque airport.

I grant. In time we will need 60 gates. However, the next smallest major airport of any city our size has 25 gates. We have 17. We need 30 now. Plus. "Crossraods Mallesque?" Funny. I have yet to see any armed gangbangers in the terminal at Will Rogers.

[ChristianConservative]

I grant. In time we will need 60 gates. However, the next smallest major airport of any city our size has 25 gates. We have 17. We need 30 now. Plus. "Crossraods Mallesque?" Funny. I have yet to see any armed gangbangers in the terminal at Will Rogers.

mranderson, we aren't even using all of the gates we have. Karen Karney has said that when the 3 new gates for Delta open, we'll have 2-3 gates that will be vacant. I think we need to be smart and fill those gates first before we consider any more construction at the airport.

We need 60 gates like we need a hole in our heads.

By Crossroads Mallesque I meant, a large structure with a lot of empty space. That's what a 30 gate airport would be at the present time.

If we built 30 gates now, we'd have 16 vacant gates and 14 filled gates. Pretty sad having more vacant gates than filled gates. What kind of message is that sending? That sounds like a failed plan to me.

Again, size of the city doesn't matter. Demand should dictate expansion, not city size.

[OUman]

^^We'll actually have 18 gates right now. One gate alone can handle upto 10 flights a day if need be, so dont even tell me "ok, one more gate, big difference." After DL/DL Conn move to the three new gates in the main terminal's airside, there will be three empty gates in the west concourse. The airport could easily handle 20-25 more flights with those gates, besides, I can't even count how many times venture and I have said airlines can and do often share gates.

The terminal is perfectly sized right now, 18 gates is more than enough. If it just so happens, the airport could add two-three more gates by building part of the east concourse (which is how the Greater Niagara Falls International terminal was built-they added a few gates at a time in the final stretch of the terminal expansion). The 60 gates you mentioned won't need to come until 15+ years from now, not at the rate traffic is growing.

The 25 gates at the next smallest airport you mention is Austin Bergstrom International, which also has a similar metro area population. It's obvious you haven't looked at its pax traffic or the kind of businesses the city has, or you wouldn't be even saying "we need 30 gates because the next smallest airport has 25." The airport has already handled 4.8 million passengers this year through July alone. That's a jump of 8% YTD over the same period last year. In effect, it has handled more passengers in the first 7 months of this year than OKC handled in all of 2005!

Compare that to OKC, where the YTD pax traffic from January through July ths year was a little over 2.1 million, an increase of only 2.06%. And with August's totals, it's 2.42 million. And you think we need a 30-gate terminal when AUS is handling more than double with 25. May I remind you that just adding gates won't do anything to get more passengers or bring more air service?

[mranderson]

mranderson, we aren't even using all of the gates we have. Karen Karney has said that when the 3 new gates for Delta open, we'll have 2-3 gates that will be vacant. I think we need to be smart and fill those gates first before we consider any more construction at the airport.

We need 60 gates like we need a hole in our heads.

By Crossroads Mallesque I meant, a large structure with a lot of empty space. That's what a 30 gate airport would be at the present time.

If we built 30 gates now, we'd have 16 vacant gates and 14 filled gates. Pretty sad having more vacant gates than filled gates. What kind of message is that sending? That sounds like a failed plan to me.

Again, size of the city doesn't matter. Demand should dictate expansion, not city size.

The perfect reason to have more gates. It is called being prepared.

When this city grows, we will need the gates. Plus, "build it and they will come." We have proven that many times. It never hurts planning ahead.

Those 16 "empty" gates would be filled with the planes serving the cities we are not yet serving plus the other new airlines we need. No failed plan. It is visionary. Many cities build for the future. The additional gates would prompt the airport distrust to get off their tuchases and aggressively seek the much needed air service with REAL jets, not puddle jumpers.

Size DOES matter. It is an embarassment to have a large city and such a small major airport by gate size. It puts a very bad scar on the city. We have too many of those now as it is. Plus. Have you ever heard the expression "creating demand?"

[OUman]

^^First, building an airport concourse or terminal doesn't come cheap, it costs money, you can't build an entire terminal/concourse and "keep it ready" for airlines to come whenever they please. Doesn't work that way.

Second, only you seem to think it's an embarassment to have such a large city and not have a comparable airport by gate size. Repeating, number of gates is determined by passenger traffic, not by how large/small a city is. If you can't understand that, you won't understand why we have an 18 gate terminal instead of a 30 gate one. So far, judging from forums and people who have been in the new terminal, there have only been positive reviews and all passengers comment on how great the new terminal is. And you think it's a scar just because it has too few gates in your opinion.

You know, "creating demand" is easier said than done. The airport has a good marketing program that not only pitches the airport to airlines but also the city. It's definitely better when airlines take notice of the improvements in the city in recent years. But as the article posted here mentioned, it is difficult for airlines to add service when costs are so high. But in your world, that really doesn't matter does it?

[ChristianConservative]

mranderson, read OUman's comment above yours. It makes more sense than your comment.

[ChristianConservative]

Everyone that I know that comes to OKC says, "oh that's a mighty fine ballpark you have. One of the nicest we've ever seen." They don't say, "oh, you just have a minor league team. You suck."

Apply the above to Will Rogers World Airport.

That's not to say that we shouldn't try to grow. But at the same time, we need to be smart in the way we spend money as a city. Building "bridges that lead to nowhere" is absolutely ignorant.

[y_h]

The perfect reason to have more gates. It is called being prepared.

OKC is prepared. It will not take much time to build the second concourse if needed. The planning and drafting has already been done, and there's always the chance that whomever the tenants of the new concourse would be may want some specific changes made to the existing construction plans. It's much cheaper to build fresh than retrofit in most cases

When this city grows, we will need the gates.

It never hurts planning ahead.

Again, having the drawings in hand and being ready to break ground is planning ahead. It's practically a turnkey operation to expand the airport if and when the need presents itself. In the mean time, it appears that the airport is already more than well equipped to handle an increased load on its existing infrastructure. I'm sure that there is also a plan in place to construct an adequate temporary facility to service new flights during construction in the event the present infrastructure is not capable of handling the heavier loads.

Size DOES matter. It is an embarassment to have a large city and such a small major airport by gate size. It puts a very bad scar on the city.

Trust me - it's an even bigger embarassment to have passengers on inbound flights have their first impression of your city be a half-empty ghost town of an airport. Ask anyone who's flown into St. Louis or Pittsburgh lately what they think of those airports. Building another concourse when there doesn't exist a present or even reasonably forseeable need for one makes your community look like Miss Haversham.

[metro]

keep in mind that mranderson says he's going to run for our city council in the future

[ChristianConservative]

keep in mind that mranderson says he's going to run for our city council in the future

[OUman]

keep in mind that mranderson says he's going to run for our city council in the future

Hmm. I'm gonna resist commenting on that for now.

[ChristianConservative]

Hmm. I'm gonna resist commenting on that for now.

Smart man!

[Pete]

Just to be clear, my frustration is not that we won't be adding the east concourse at this point but with the constant delays in completing the rest of the main terminal, 2nd security point, extra bagage claim, etc.

This part has been delayed countless times, always with a new promise that in turn goes unmet.

The present staff has done a terrible job communicating all this with the public -- only providing updates when we or the press harrasses them.

And things have not improved with the new director; in fact, in his only interview in his first year on the job, he said he was concentrating on getting the current construction done by September, which has now come and gone.

I agree that we are in a good postion to add new gates as needed but I continue to have grave concerns about the airport leadership.

[OUman]

^Yeah, I agree with you that updating the airport website needs to be done on a regular basis and needs to be consistent. Not keeping an up-to-date airport website isn't good especially for people out of state.

On the other hand, about the main terminal's east side: I recall that there were some issues that needed to be addressed after the attacks due to security concerns and so the interior of the new main terminal needed some changes in the plans, and that's maybe why this final stage in Phase II is taking much longer than expected. But there should be updates on this, I'll agree.

[Pete]

*nm*

[Pete]

This is a quote from Kranenburg this past July:

By 2005, the airport construction was pretty much under control. We only had a few issues that we were working out with the engineer and contractor to try to resolve. We are scheduled to be completed by September of this year. We want to make sure we come in on time.

This September date was after they updated the website to say August (which it still says, no matter that is two months passed) after pushing back the date 2-3 times, each time using excuses about security changes.


There seems to be absolutely zero accountability here and does not exactly inspire confidence in the rest of their dealings.

[ChristianConservative]

Just to be clear, my frustration is not that we won't be adding the east concourse at this point but with the constant delays in completing the rest of the main terminal, 2nd security point, extra bagage claim, etc.

This part has been delayed countless times, always with a new promise that in turn goes unmet.

The present staff has done a terrible job communicating all this with the public -- only providing updates when we or the press harrasses them.

And things have not improved with the new director; in fact, in his only interview in his first year on the job, he said he was concentrating on getting the current construction done by September, which has now come and gone.

I agree that we are in a good postion to add new gates as needed but I continue to have grave concerns about the airport leadership.

Partly, you'd have to fault the contractor. Contractors are notorious for delays, and at this point, the completion of the project is really out of the hands of the trust. The best solution to the problem is to choose a contractor next time that can stick by his word.

[Pete]

Just heard that the new gates and 2nd security check point (and I assume the rest of the remaining expansion space) will be open tomorrow.

As I mentioned on another thread, I was through there on Sunday and everything looked close but there was still a wall separating the new part of the gate area and the new baggage claim and ticket counters were roped off.

My guess is that they'll be some on-going finish work for a little while longer.

[Patrick]

So, as an out-of-towner, what are your thoughts about the airport in general?

[Pete]

I absolutely love the new design.

I know some initially thought the bold design of native slate, stainless steel and bright green signage was a bit too much, but I think it really works. And I also like the city is showing some self-confidence by going with something that is a little risky and unique.

Plus, the very high ceiling heights and lots of natural light make a big difference. Makes the place look much bigger than it is and really improves first impressions.


*************************


Will Rogers World Airport renovations complete
By The Associated Press

City officials celebrated the completion of a five-year, $110 million expansion and renovation to the Will Rogers World Airport, where a new terminal is scheduled to open on Tuesday.

With new additions like a second security checkpoint and new baggage-handling system, travelers are expected to see a more efficient system at the airport.

Larry Donelson, 58, an Ohio businessman who passes through Oklahoma City at least once a month, said he noticed the changes.

"It seems really nice ... it's beautiful and efficient," Donelson said. "It's a lot different."

Lance Benham, president and CEO of the Benham Companies, architects and engineers on the project, said it will "give everyone who travels by air a firsthand look at how Oklahoma City has progressed and prospered."

"The terminal will be a gateway, and it will show our progress and our determination to become a world class airport and destination city."

Mayor Mick Cornett said the air terminal, with stone-accented walls designed to provide a rustic feel, reflects the spirit of Oklahoma and will help benefit commerce in the area.

The project, funded by revenue bonds, began in 2001 and increased the overall size of the airport by about 283,000 square feet.

"For the past couple of years passengers have seen spectacular improvements as a result of the terminal renovation project," said airport director Mark Kranenburg. "The completion of this phase of the project just adds more to what is already an outstanding facility."

Other added features are larger departure lounges; new flight information displays, including two jumbo screens available to passengers immediately after passing through security checkpoints; wireless Internet access; new escalators and elevators; expanded ticketing lobby and landscaping and interior designs.

[Theo Walcott]

build the casinos, and the air traffic will arrive in droves. no reason not to get this approved in a zoned area along the canal for the impending movement of I-40. we desparately need to get this done ASAP.