Strawberry Fields

[ChrisHayes]

I'm looking into getting into real estate investing, and if I had the money I would be involved in it as well. This is a chance to really build out Downtown OKC and make a hell of an impact on the appearance of Dowtown as part of the overall core to shore plan.

[OKC2017]

are you implying there could be something fishy here, like say...coff coff, money laundering, coff coff...?

1. Who are the Salames? What did they do for a living before starting these acquisitions? (All I know is Pat Salame used to work at the Waco equipment rental place on Classen and that they own a few small apartment buildings and they are both in their 60's)
2. Where did they get the $15 million to buy, scrape and sit on properties indefinitely?
3. Was Pat Salame even asked about her scores of investors (common knowledge) and who they might be?
4. Are they working with any of the 10+ other large property owners in the area between Scissortail Park and Western? (several own as much property, their 'master plan' shows grand vision for property of which only about 25% is owned by them)
5. How many demolitions have they performed rather than the one example of a structure they bought and left standing? (dozens, if you follow the permitting process)
6. Do they have plans to develop any of the property themselves? (I know for a fact they have spoken to other developers about spinning some land off for housing and were refused, at least for the time being)
7. Are they just speculators who plan to sit on most this property until others come in and offer them and their many investors a nice profit?

If you look at the map below, you'll see their ownership in pink. What you notice is that it is largely fragments that sit among other large property owners. (Green is city-owned).

There are at least a dozen owners / investors that own big chunks all around them.

[Pete]

are you implying there could be something fishy here, like say...coff coff, money laundering, coff coff...?

Absolutely not, just pointing out how it's another PR / promotional / softball piece by the Oklahoman on behalf of a big investor / developer, will many relevant unasked questions.

If I have a concern it's that this group will do nothing but drive up prices and make it harder for real developers to make something happen in that area.

Expect every project to 'need' plenty of TIF dollars, even though the city is investing hundreds of millions in the immediate area.

[Canoe]

Absolutely not, just pointing out how it's another PR / promotional / softball piece by the Oklahoman on behalf of a big investor / developer, will many relevant unasked questions.

If I have a concern it's that this group will do nothing but drive up prices and make it harder for real developers to make something happen in that area.

Expect every project to 'need' plenty of TIF dollars, even though the city is investing hundreds of millions in the immediate area.

Finally someone is asking the real questions. I have always wondered how a property could be listed for sale at 3 million and only be taxed at the assessment value of 100k. If the property is worth 3 million then shouldn't it be taxed at 3 million to the current owners? Why is it only cool to tax the developer of the land at a 3 million dollar value.

Tldr; it seems our property tax system encourages this behavior.

[Pete]

^

It also explains how Rick Dowell can sit on a property for 22 years in the heart of downtown and do nothing, because it's not costing him anything to do so.

And for this area of downtown, there are lots of speculators and no development. When it is time to develop, I'm afraid only the speculators will make money and the real developers will then come to the city with their hand out for TIF dollars because "they can't make the numbers work at these prices".

[onthestrip]

Absolutely not, just pointing out how it's another PR / promotional / softball piece by the Oklahoman on behalf of a big investor / developer, will many relevant unasked questions.

If I have a concern it's that this group will do nothing but drive up prices and make it harder for real developers to make something happen in that area.

Expect every project to 'need' plenty of TIF dollars, even though the city is investing hundreds of millions in the immediate area.

Ugh, I hope not. Scissortail Park and all the other MAPS things in the area should be the "TIF." The city shouldnt be doing big projects that help bring new development and then still subsidize private developments.

Finally someone is asking the real questions. I have always wondered how a property could be listed for sale at 3 million and only be taxed at the assessment value of 100k. If the property is worth 3 million then shouldn't it be taxed at 3 million to the current owners? Why is it only cool to tax the developer of the land at a 3 million dollar value.

Tldr; it seems our property tax system encourages this behavior.

Thats going to happen when land/property prices rapidly increase. The annual maximum 5% bump in taxable value cant ever catch up. So basically its great for the city and state when old, undervalued land gets sold and a new taxable value is established. New property transactions correct that ad valorem imbalance.

Im sure no one in Oklahoma wants to see Texas like property tax rates but I do believe it spurs more people to do something with their property (rent, redevelop, etc) because it can be much more expensive there to let it sit empty and do nothing with it.

[Pete]

^

They just established a huge new TIF for this area in addition to everything else the taxpayers are already paying for: Park, boulevard, brand new Hudson Ave., streetcar, etc.

[KayneMo]

Here's one example of the type of houses I would love to see built in the area and elsewhere in Core to Shore, and anywhere else in the core for that matter.

Rowhouses in Cincinnati built in 1992.

[5alive]

^^^^^^

[jccouger]

Here's one example of the type of houses I would love to see built in the area and elsewhere in Core to Shore, and anywhere else in the core for that matter.

Rowhouses in Cincinnati built in 1992.

I don't see how that is much different than Deep Duece.

What's I'd really love to see is an entire district of 3-6 story buildings that had street retail in every building and residential on floors 2-6. With very very little parking.

[KayneMo]

I don't see how that is much different than Deep Duece.

What's I'd really love to see is an entire district of 3-6 story buildings that had street retail in every building and residential on floors 2-6. With very very little parking.

Interesting, they look quite different to me than what is currently in Deep Deuce. I agree with your second sentence, though.

[KingOfTheNorth]

I'd love more of an appearance similar to the Back Bay in Boston. I always thought that was one of the most beautiful neighborhoods, although expensive as crap.

[Pete]

If they want to get something going down there, they should do a limited amount of halfway affordable for sale units, something not currently available in the core.

Plus, almost everything they own is in the middle of that area, so not well suited for anything commercial.

[Pete]

[cinnamonjock]

All of those beautiful, mature trees...

[Eddie1]

^ they will no doubt be mowed down the nanosecond development starts taking place.

[Jeepnokc]

This is also in the primary zone for John Rex. Will give you first priority in getting in.

[UnFrSaKn]

^ they will no doubt be mowed down the nanosecond development starts taking place.

Whatever needs to be done to make the City look less than 50 years old.

Edit: Let's be a little more generous and say no older than WW2. So 70 years.

[UnFrSaKn]

http://newsok.com/core-to-shore-come...rticle/5555149

[Ross MacLochness]

If they want to get something going down there, they should do a limited amount of halfway affordable for sale units, something not currently available in the core.

Plus, almost everything they own is in the middle of that area, so not well suited for anything commercial.

If enough people live there why wouldn't commercial work? Because of the masterplan? I would think if there is sufficient density, food places, laundromats, convenience stores, etc would work well as ground floor retail. This style of development may not be what they are going for, and certainly would be unprecedented in OK, but it could be done.

[Pete]

If enough people live there why wouldn't commercial work? Because of the masterplan? I would think if there is sufficient density, food places, laundromats, convenience stores, etc would work well as ground floor retail. This style of development may not be what they are going for, and certainly would be unprecedented in OK, but it could be done.

Just meant the people must come first.

[UnFrSaKn]

Woah... at first this looked new. No date. Posted just now on Facebook.

http://www.gsb-inc.com/strawberry-fields/

[Pete]

^ Right, just saw these.

Here are the newish images:

[UnFrSaKn]

Jinx

[UnFrSaKn]

The first thing I thought of Pete were the drone photos you shot compared to this. So much more density!