Alley North (Old Dolese Headquarters)

[HangryHippo]

This should have been the original core streetcar route, IMO. Double-track Scissortail Park to EK Gaylord and all the way north on Broadway to 23rd, then W to Classen. There is still time to correct this [especially with 23rd streetplan], however the businesses along Broadway are probably not on board with any additional streetcar construction.

The city should have just center lane double tracked this route and paid businesses while construction disrupted their operations. Shoulda woulda coulda.

Very well said.

[chssooner]

This should have been the original core streetcar route, IMO. Double-track Scissortail Park to EK Gaylord and all the way north on Broadway to 23rd, then W to Classen. There is still time to correct this [especially with 23rd streetplan], however the businesses along Broadway are probably not on board with any additional streetcar construction.

The city should have just center lane double tracked this route and paid businesses while construction disrupted their operations. Shoulda woulda coulda.

I mean, that would have been hella expensive. I don't know if the city could afford that. ODOT, we know, hates the streetcar, so they wouldn't help, either.

Would have been nice, though.

[BoulderSooner]

This should have been the original core streetcar route, IMO. Double-track Scissortail Park to EK Gaylord and all the way north on Broadway to 23rd, then W to Classen. There is still time to correct this [especially with 23rd streetplan], however the businesses along Broadway are probably not on board with any additional streetcar construction.

The city should have just center lane double tracked this route and paid businesses while construction disrupted their operations. Shoulda woulda coulda.

that is 7 miles of track ...

[Anonymous.]

I mean, that would have been hella expensive. I don't know if the city could afford that. ODOT, we know, hates the streetcar, so they wouldn't help, either.

Would have been nice, though.

It's actually just over 3.5 miles in distance. So double track would be around 7 miles of total track.

The current OKC streetcar is 5.6 miles of track.

I argue the streetcar would have been dramatically cheaper to just do this route double-tracked as opposed to weaving around all over random streets. Read costs as utilities relocation, power additions, building more stops, construction materials, road closures. Plus it would have disrupted many less businesses for shorter duration - so you would pay less businesses for less time. A bonus is that 23rd, Broadway, and EK Gaylord are all gigantically wide streets that could easily accommodate this route.

I argue now that the streetcar is salvageable even in current configuration. You can still double-track this main thoroughfare mentioned above, and use the the current route as the auxiliary routes that come off the main double-line.

[LakeEffect]

It's actually just over 3.5 miles in distance. So double track would be around 7 miles of total track.

The current OKC streetcar is currently 5.6 miles of track.

I argue the streetcar would have been dramatically cheaper to just do this route double-tracked as opposed to weaving around all over random streets. Read costs as utilities relocation, power additions, buildings more stops, construction materials, road closures. Plus it would have disrupted many less businesses for shorter duration - so you would pay less businesses for less time. A bonus is that 23rd, Broadway, and EK Gaylord are all gigantically wide streets that could easily accommodate this route.

I argue now that the streetcar is salvageable even in current configuration. You can still double-track this main thoroughfare mentioned above, and use the the current route as the auxiliary routes that come off the main double-line.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

[BoulderSooner]

I argue the streetcar would have been dramatically cheaper to just do this route double-tracked as opposed to weaving around all over random streets. Read costs as utilities relocation, power additions

double tracking a street can lots of times cause utility relocation to be much more expensive .. because they can't just be pushed to the opposite side of the street ..

[Jake]

Why have an efficient, well-designed streetcar route when we can have a bad one and constantly use it as evidence of public transit not working and being a poor investment?

[Jeepnokc]

Why have an efficient, well-designed streetcar route when we can have a bad one and constantly use it as evidence of public transit not working and being a poor investment?

I love the streetcar and wish we had more but this design made the streetcar useless for everyday use, It is a great novelty though. Should of been a double track system.

I am curious what other cities use a loop system? All the subways/street cars I have been on have been double track systems.

Also, back on topic, seems more sense to run line through dolese area east/west to medical complex and that area other than n/s on broadway

[BoulderSooner]

Also, back on topic, seems more sense to run line through dolese area east/west to medical complex and that area other than n/s on broadway

this issue with 13th is that a street car can't cross railroad tracks at grade

[chssooner]

How tall are we thinking this development will be? Or wanting it to be?

[BoulderSooner]

How tall are we thinking this development will be? Or wanting it to be?

i would guess 5 stories min .. with the east side 7-10

[Pete]

Their PUD filing requests no height restrictions.

[Southsider2]

If it is Milhaus, most of their portfolio is between 4-6 stories.

[LocoAko]

Their PUD filing requests no height restrictions.

Yep. And the only other height "restriction" from the Planning Commission is a minimum building height of 30 feet for the buildings fronting Broadway, which I assume would be the case even without the requirement.

[catch22]

this issue with 13th is that a street car can't cross railroad tracks at grade

And even if they were FRA freight crash certified operating a diamond there with a busy double mainline track would be very complicated. A lot of very long waits for clearance across.

[Pete]

Just saw that this development (on the main plot of land associated with the sale discussed earlier, stretching from NW 13th to NW 16th between Broadway and the railroad tracks) is set to go before the Planning Commission on Thursday. There are still no detailed renderings, but the plans at least call for "hotel, retail, office, and residential uses".

This is the only conceptual diagram included at this stage (so take it with a grain of salt). But wow, what an opportunity to do something special on this property....

The rezoning was passed by Planning Commission today.

Before anything is built, the developers (whoever they are) would have to submit detailed plans to the PC and design review.

[Pete]

BTW, I've heard that the Pivot Project is behind the large multi-use development north of NW 13th.

They likely have other partners as well.

[Pete]

Permits have been filed for the renovation of the Dolese building on the south side of 13th and closest to Broadway (20 NW 13th).

Omega is a local real estate development firm.

[USSOklahoma]

The renderings look like it is the middle of the 3 buildings. The old streetcar building. Do you know if they are keeping the bridge between this building and the one on the corner and developing both? Or is that one on the corner still waiting to be developed?

[rte66man]

The renderings look like it is the middle of the 3 buildings. The old streetcar building. Do you know if they are keeping the bridge between this building and the one on the corner and developing both? Or is that one on the corner still waiting to be developed?

The skyway was one of the first things to be torn down.

[Pete]

The renderings look like it is the middle of the 3 buildings. The old streetcar building. Do you know if they are keeping the bridge between this building and the one on the corner and developing both? Or is that one on the corner still waiting to be developed?

Yes, thanks for the correction.

[Pete]

Work is well underway on the eastern building; looking to lease to multiple tenants.

[rte66man]

Work is well underway on the eastern building; looking to lease to multiple tenants.

Pete, If they lease out all of the east building, where is everyone going to park? I see a max of 15 spots in this lot (and that's pushing it). Did they also buy parking on the north side of 13th?

[Pete]

Pete, If they lease out all of the east building, where is everyone going to park? I see a max of 15 spots in this lot (and that's pushing it). Did they also buy parking on the north side of 13th?

Here is the site plan for the renovation:

[Pete]