Union Station - Transit Discussions

[ddavidson8]

What are we arguing about here? If it's to keep Union Station and somehow work it into commuter rail, I'm all for it no matter how long it takes. Of course I'd like to see the major park that is to be built near it finished as well.

[edcrunk]

so tom, even tho i'm a huge fan of hebrew history and culture, i'm a tad confused with your references to jacob and esau. are you saying that because people enjoy driving they are profane or because we want a new highway that will destroy the railyard?
i love driving... i don't ever plan on giving that up even if trains are available.
btw, i went to the rail yard and only saw two tracks. i saw where one used to be a long time ago but had been torn up. i know that odot is preserving one of the lines that is being used and is leaving enough space for another to be built if needed.

[BoulderSooner]

Our state is run by thugs.

This is acceptable to you?

Does it mean anything to you?

Do you bear any responsibility to deal with it?

Those of us who have called government and its minions to account in this matter have no financial stake in it -- period (other than what it has cost us over the last 15 years).

What's at stake is the integrity of our government and economic and mobility futures of this state.

Talk is cheap. Work is expensive.

It doesn't cost you much to finger that keyboard, friend.

Done anything else lately?

TOM ELMORE

and you act like a "thug" .. pressing your agenda .. this will do nothing but slow the new I-40 .. and maybe not even that ..

those rail yards are going away .. it is only a matter of time .. and it is good for our city

[Tom Elmore]

Why mention Esau?

Alright -- here's a long post.

As I've written before, I contend that OKC Union Station should be viewed by today's Oklahomans as the gift of our great-grandparents' generation to us -- and to our own grandchildren.

It's a legacy. A birthright. A patrimony -- but not just for us. It's for those who will follow us.

Thinking only of himself and his own momentary hunger, in a fit of blind, petty greed, Esau altered his own life and the futures of his own offspring. For a "mess of pottage," a single meal, he threw away the birthright -- and the blessing of his father. Nor did he later find a place for repentance, "though he sought it with tears..."

Compared to lots of other places, Oklahoma City doesn't have much history. But that sure didn't stop the big shots from razing much of our architectural legacy and identity in the 1970s. Once the Criterion and the Biltmore and others were gone -- they could not be retrieved. And downtown lay hollow for many years -- and continues to lay somewhat hollow -- partly because of this. The immense synergy of modern reuse of those historic buildings had not even been seriously considered. They were preemptively cast away -- and with them, all the power that might have been there.

I'd argue that the lesson of Esau should have informed what was about to be done back then -- before it was done. Unfortunately, like Esau, it was mostly greed -- a few coins -- "the quick buck" -- that drove those bad decisions.

Is there value in such tragedy?

Sure there is -- if we learn from it. But it's plain that OKC leaders have learned absolutely nothing. Nothing, at least, that would keep them from, once again, trading the quick buck for another irreplaceable gift of our forbears.

I see in the foolish, arrogantly dismissive attitude toward the Union Station yard -- the spirit of Esau. Crass profanity. At the moment of his bad decision, Esau apparently couldn't see any tangible value in the blessing and the legacy. Heck -- his father was still alive. His father might outlive him. And he was hungry, "now" --- and so on.

..and, like Esau, if we succeed in casting this treasure away, there will, inevitably be weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth -- when it's too late to do anything about it.

Some years ago I had a conversation with a big time highway contractor who lives in Enid, a "Bellmon man," and former state highway commissioner. He told me, "We all know you're right about intermodal. We know we can't keep on doing what we're doing now forever. But, you know, life is short and my job isn't to reinvent the wheel. My job is to get all I can for my side while I can."

To this, I responded, "That's great -- but what about the mess you're leaving your children and grandchildren?"

"Well, Tom," he said, "the little boogers'll just have to figure it out for themselves."

Welcome to Oklahoma.

That's what this generation has left its grandchildren. "$40 + billion in unfunded highway maintenance need -- in our own state, alone." And on and on. Apparently a generation of locusts -- despoiling, using up, casting away all they touch -- and sending the bill down the line to their unborn offspring using "debt instruments."

Unfortunate examples abound here.

I would argue that, in the spirit of the legacy of Isaac and Abraham, his father, there's much, much more to OKC Union Station than meets the eye of most people. But that clues to that depth of value are visible only to the reverent, thoughtful eye -- although it should certainly be much more apparent to all today than just a few years ago. It's true value would be realized only through putting it to use, as its builders desired.

There is no excuse -- and no "pretty" explanation -- for what ODOT and OKC leadership have determined to do to this facility. Like turning an antique Tiffany Lamp over to a bunch of gorillas, it's not a question of "what will happen," -- but, "when."

Among other things, Union Station is -- "an IQ test for leaders."

When ODOT gave the Union Station yard a numerical weight of "zero" in its "comparative route study," ODOT wasn't really rating Union Station. Union Station and its designers and builders were rating ODOT.

And who doesn't "love to drive?" But all must qualify, by age and ability, to do so -- and the time will likely come when age or disability disqualify us. Shouldn't there be reasonable alternatives? Why would Americans allow themselves to be dominated and limited by any single technology? Why allow public highways to become a Procrustean bedstead -- a concrete cross -- a vast, hyper-expensive "tar baby" to which we are all irretrievably stuck?

Surely you see that our automobiles are potentially and ideally part of a very efficient, convenient, economical and people-friendly multimodal transport system offering "choice," to all users, every day -- and with it, the blessings of "market competition." See it in Parker, Colorado or Garland, Texas. There are many such suburban communities now served by modern transit. Watch their overjoyed, prime-of-life drivers gladly leaving their Lexus and BMWs in park-and-ride lots to take fast trains on the daily, "necessary trips," saving their cars for more pleasurable outings or times when only a car will do.

If I'd had that choice in 1978, maybe the odometers in my '77 Camaro (special order, pre-Z/28 Type LT, substantially tweaked LM-1 350, 4-speed, F-41 suspension) or my swoopy little '87 Accord LXi would show only 100 K miles today -- instead of three times that.

Isn't "competition" what drives the American market system? Can it work -- really work -- without competition?

If most central Oklahomans once again had a real choice in how they would go where they go on any given day, would the price of automobiles and all that goes with them be more likely to go up -- or down? How about the price of motor fuel? Of "downtown parking?" How about if we just "didn't have to drive so far, every day?"

If all the people who can't, or would rather not, use public highways had efficient, ready alternatives -- would the daily "highway experience" for regular road users improve or decline?

Would the lives of Oklahoma families -- trying to hold on to family farms in rural areas while necessarily holding down jobs in cities and 'burbs to make ends meet -- be easier -- or harder -- with fast passenger trains crisscrossing the state on our historic rail corridors?

What about the elderly in small town and rural Oklahoma -- who, when at their worst and feeling their worst, now have no choice but to get out on the unforgiving roads and joust with the trucks just to get to OKC or Tulsa for medical care?

If more freight -- of all kinds -- could move most of its usual journey by rail instead of by public highway, would highways likely be better -- or worse?

Ain't it "strange" that, to hear the highway-lobby-hypnotized tell it, "We don't have the population density to support transit" -- but we DO "have the population density" to bear pot-holed, truck-choked public roads and tens of billions in "unfunded highway maintenance requirement?" How in the world did Anton Classen's quaint little electric trolleys succeed in building such a place? How much "population density" did the interior of this continent boast -- before railways created it?

OKC Union Station is more than just an old passenger station. It is one of only a very, very few such facilities in the nation that still has virtually all of its key service capability in place. Probably two-thirds of the 55,000 sq ft surface floor space is elegant intermodal Mail and Express Freight handling facility -- carefully designed for fast turns.

Today's United Parcel Service is the direct corporate descendent of Americas once-ubiquitous Railway Express Agency. Not strange, then, that UPS is BNSF Railway Company's best customer (although the nearest piggyback facility for OKC's UPS terminal is 200 miles south -- Ft. Worth Alliance Yard...since May, 2005).

Oklahoma is plainly a nearly perfect, natural surface transport center. Why not use this historic station facility not just for passenger services -- but to restart fast, efficient, intermodal Mail and Express Freight handling to meet the needs of today's internet economy, forging a place of leadership for ourselves at the head of an advanced surface transport revolution? And not just "the service," as a distribution center -- but a manufacturing base for advanced surface transport technologies? Research and development? Advanced propulsion and energy transmission? Digital traffic and business management?

Imagine what this state could be, freed from absolute dependence on its traditional "boom-bust" economy. Everybody needs efficient transport every day. Why parlay our unique assets into world leadership in that field? And imagine what new found leadership in these businesses could mean to Oklahoma's oil and ag industries.

If you think of your grandparents as I think of mine, it's not hard to believe that they would reach down through time to help you in special ways if they could. In many ways, they already did that, as did their parents. OKC Union Station, I would argue -- is our great-grandparents -- reaching down through history, giving us exactly what we need -- right now -- at the time we need it most.

And we can have it.

It's ours -- right here in our hands.

Unless, like Esau, we are so profane, arrogant and blind as to throw it away -- or "turn it over to the gorillas."

TOM ELMORE

[okiebadger]

'Thinking only of himself and his own momentary hunger, in a fit of blind, petty greed, Esau altered his own life and the futures of his own offspring. For a "mess of pottage," a single meal, he threw away the birthright -- and the blessing of his father. Nor did he later find a place for repentance, "though he sought it with tears..." '

You miss the point of this story Tom. This story is being told to the descendants of JACOB, who becomes its hero. The central point is how Jacob WON a birthright through careful planning and quick action. Let's not throw away our opportunity for a modern highway and a Central park that will be the envy of cities twice our size, all while keeping Union Station and two lines of track for future use. You would keep us from doing anything while the rest of the country moves forward. Let's not waste another twenty years throwing up obstructions to progress.

[betts]

I'm with Okiebadger. If anything, the people who want to see the Core to Shore plans realized want to preserve and enhance Union Station. I'd like to see it's architecture cherished, and having it sited in the middle of an iconic city park, being admired and used by people as a place to dine and celebrate isn't throwing our older architecture away. No one that I know of wants to tear the building down. The way it stands now, no one sees it, because it's in the middle of blight. When I take people down there and drive them through the core to shore area, they're always amazed, not only at the vision, but what ugliness we can do away with. Oklahoma City is poised on the cusp of losing it's blah, dustbowl at best persona, and laughingstock at worst persona. A beautiful central park will make us a true city that appreciates it's urbanness. A train station for light rail that is designed for modern times and much more practical can be built in a location that is actually logical and will be used, when we determine the best location for it....a location that will encourage the use of rail, not discourage it by being out of the way. Because, if we don't develop the area around the station, no one will want to be dropped off there. I wouldn't consider taking a train that dropped me off in the middle of all that mess, and neither would any little grandmothers from Clinton or wherever.

And again, if the railroad that owns the line doesn't want it, and the city doesn't want it, who does? What private business wants it? That's my second question.

My third question is, why is it reasonable to expand an elevated highway at higher cost, when we know elevated highways require more maintenance? We all know that I-40 is inadequate already. To keep it as it is requires more than simple repair....it requires expansion. It doesn't matter if we hope that highway travel will go down eventually. Without sure knowledge of that, we need a bigger highway, not just a patched one. Why should we spend money expanding an elevated highway in a location where we don't want one? As I've said, I would have been fine with I-40 going south of the river. But, I don't know how difficult obtaining right of way would have been or would be now. But I, and almost everyone I know, is more interested in getting rid of I-40 where it stands now than preserving a railroad line. I'd like to know the cost of rerouting the rail line if we end up with a company that wants to use it. How does it compare with rerouting I-40 south of the river or anywhere else?

[okiebadger]

You said it well Betts. Let's restore Union Station and make it centerpiece for civic activity and an anchor for a beautiful park.

[dalelakin]

I am curious how useable are the existing lines shown in the NATI map you provided Tom? Can they currently support heavy rail traffic and if not how much would it take to get them back to snuff? How long would it take to do so? If my understanding is correct it is more about the right of ways then it is the current actual tracks in place today is that correct?

Also I am curious Tom do you see no value in the Core to Shore project and what legacy it could leave for our grandchildren?

[Tom Elmore]

What you think you know is what ODOT and its propagandists have told you. As I've noted -- you are "taking the word," however plainly irrational and manifestly deceptive that word may be -- of "the pothole kings," the "fathers of the current Crosstown," the "creators of $40 billion in unfunded highway maintenance requirement" -- and "declaring it the truth."

Is "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice -- shame on me" completely lost on you?

Ask the federal Surface Transportation Board if it's not good advice.

The truth, however, is right before you. It's just that you apparently haven't seen it. ...or perhaps refuse to see it for reasons best known to yourself (speaking generally, rhetorically and logically.)

And "the rest of the country moving forward?" It was no less a leader of one of the best-known Western cities making most notable progress -- former Mayor Rocky Anderson of Salt Lake City -- whose voice may be still heard today on KGOU's website declaring the "New Crosstown Plan" -- "insane."

The Utahans say they "have their fourth congressional seat nailed for 2010." Could it be that we "lost that seat" in 2000?

And, Badg -- as to the story of Esau -- As I noted when I brought this up, my reference is not Genesis 25. My reference is the commentary of the Rabbi, Saul of Taursus, known among the gentiles as the Apostle Paul -- Hebrews 12:16-17.

Tell him he "misses the point."

I'd argue that he's trying to tell you something.

TOM

[betts]

Do we promote a rail line at the cost of every other improvement the city would like to make? Does the blight surrounding I-40 not matter? Does the fact that I-40 needs to be replaced, not repaired, matter? How does the cost of losing the existing rail line and having to replace it in another location someday perhaps compare with having to obtain right of way for a new I-40 in a different location or with expanding and repairing our elevated highway? How practical is Union Station for a multi-modal transportation location? Would it be easily accessible for buses or trollies? Could light rail AND heavy rail be run on those same tracks? Would any rail line that owned them object to light rail on those tracks, as I know that is an issue that other cities have had to deal with. Is that really an ideal location for an east-west line, and is an east-west line going to have a significant number of travelers? Where do most of the people who work downtown and go downtown live? Has this been studied? These are all questions I have, the answers to which interest me far more than the explanation of Biblical references to Esau and Saul.

[Midtowner]

I-40 can follow a different route.

Yeah, some developers who bought land when they knew ahead of time which route would be left out in the cold, but I can live with that.

[Kerry]

Holy crap all ready. It doesn't matter if the rails to Union Station were made out solid gold and mag-lev trains went over them at 1000 mph. THE STATION IS IN THE WRONG PLACE TO BE USEFUL!!!!!!!!!

If you think someone is going to ride in from the burbs to Union Station and then wait around for another train to go the last 8 blocks to Bricktown/downtown then you are stupid. Any modern mass transit hub will dwarf anything that is feasable at Union Station.

[edcrunk]

tom, i don't think anyone discounts the need for rail in our future. the map on your website does nothing for me... i wish i could see a detailed map of union staion. i don't understand why a staion by the ford center couldn't link up with the same lines that union does.

simple layman's terms please.

[Tom Elmore]

Here's what's needed and what can be immediately developed at Union Station:

(1) Two dedicated platform tracks (one east, one west-bound) tracks for fast, intercity passenger trains. Union Station yard interfaces with north-south BNSF Red Rock subdivision line via renewed interchange ramps near Santa Fe Avenue.

(2) Two dedicated sidings for rapid, intermodal mail and express equipment marshalling and switching supporting intercity and commuter train services.

(3) Two dedicated platform tracks for fast, frequent, regional commuter trains.

(4) Two dedicated platorm tracks with overhead electric catenary for developing, local light rail services.

(5) Two dedicated through-tracks for mainline freight train bypass (one for UP, one for BNSF)

(6) Two dedicated through-tracks for special train handling - tourist, private, military, etc.

(7) Trolleys from north-south streets circulate through Union Station, initially via 7th Street, ultimately via new dedicated yard platforms.

(8) Generous interface with corresponding, connecting bus services, auto parking and pedestrian facilities.

(9) Direct, coordinated ties via existing rail lines to Will Rogers Airport and Tulsa International Airport and state military facilities.

Interim startup services could be started immediately via existing lines. Fast-track development could bring all other basic services on line, at the outside, within a few months to three years.

Check the existing layout yourself, via maps.live.com "Birdseye" function, starting scan at 300 SW 7th St, Oklahoma City, OK 73109-5320.

TOM ELMORE

[betts]

And again, do you seriously think anyone will be interested in all of this rail line if the area remains blighted, which is what will continue if I-40 is not moved? And everything you're talking about is east-west. There's no way to run it north-south, as it would have to run directly through the CBD. Is east-west REALLY what we need? Do you care at all about a park, making our downtown a viable place for people to live, or do you only care about freight yards and a theoretical rail system for transportation, which we don't even know is assuredly financially feasible? Do the UP and BNSF want these lines?

[dalelakin]

You didn't answer my question on how much would it take to get them ready for heavy rail traffic? I see the time line for heavy usage but no mention of costs??

[Tom Elmore]

Union Station speaks for itself. Take a look. Don't let the weeds blind you to what's actually there. I'm sometimes available to lead tours of the facility. The number is 405 794 7163.

First phase DART Rail tracks, built on long standing existing railway corridors, are 115 lb (per yard) welded rail on concrete crossties. Lightest mainline track in the Union Station yard is 115 lb welded rail on generally good quality wooden ties and extremely high quality road bed. Mainline bridges are in good condition.

First phase of Dallas system -- Electric light rail lines and mixed-traffic commuter line using 13 updated Budd Rail Diesel Cars -- was built with proceeds from a penny sales tax. DART officials say the development was created at roughly one-fifth the cost of building the same amount of new capacity with highways.

Compare the likely one billion dollar+ cost of the "New Crosstown" to total $1.1 billion cost of entire Dallas rail system first phase -- a development which immediately drew tremendous surrounding commercial development exceeding its own cost and had 40,000 daily riders within two years. System is now well along to tripling first phase size, moving over 70,000 daily riders.

Union Station lines have always interchanged with north-south, former Santa Fe lines in a number of ways. Significantly improved fast access is now more in reach than ever for several different reasons.

Via the 2.86 cent per gallon Federal Transit Trust fund contribution from each gallon of motor fuel purchased, Oklahomans reportedly send something over $70 million per year to support Federal Transit Programs.

Money and assets have never been the real problem in Oklahoma. The problem has been that our highway-and-auto-lobby influence sodden leadership has consistently undercut what should have been done.

A Regional Transit Authority (Central Oklahoma Metropolitan Transit - COMET) including Oklahoma County and all immediately surrounding counties could be rapidly established, bringing the political clout of all together for common funding.

Existing facilities in most corridors would support rapid startup services nearly immediately to key locations in each county. Use of commercial lines would be negotiated as standard business arrangement with the rail companies by the Authority. Ultimately, Authority operations might be competitively bid to commercial operators which would function somewhat like utilities under public franchises.

All predictable factors being typical / nominal, rail services may be expected to significantly outperform highways in construction cost, life-cycle maintenance cost and actual service life. Nothing else comes close to the mix of speed, carrying capacity, energy efficiency and flexibility, environmental cleanliness, affordability and safety of rail.

TOM ELMORE

[betts]

Use of commercial lines by mass transit has been problematic in other cities. And again, we have to build a new Crosstown. We can argue about where, but it is going to have to be built. We're not talking about a local highway. We're talking about one of the only three major east-west interstate highways in the United States. The current road is inadequate in size, and it's crumbling. So, the billion dollars you estimate cannot be taken away from the highway for city use for mass transit. It would have to come from other moneys during or after expansion of I-40.

Is DART used for commuter traffic? How many people in Dallas are actually using DART for transportation to work or even to get to downtown events from outlying neighborhoods? DART is cute, but is it more than a tourist mover?

How many people in Oklahoma City actually work downtown or in areas immediately accessible to rail lines? How many of those people would be willing to use mass transit? What would the price of gas have to be to make use of commuter rail cost effective for the general population? What number of people would have to use mass transit every day and for what distance to make the expenditure of a billion dollars, not to mention the cost of maintenance, justifiable?

Those are questions that need to be answered. Again, we all agree that light rail is a great thing.....if it is actually used by enough people to justify the massive costs. But we can't simply say, "Light rail is great!" and spend the money without careful thought. Again, I think Union Station is a lousy location. Precisely how and where would those Union Station lines interface with north-south? The inconvenience of having to wait for a bus or trolley after taking the train is going to decrease usage, unless the CBD comes to Union Station. And that's not going to happen as long as the Crosstown is in place.

Again, it's not that anyone is anti-rail. I'm simply anti "let's have rail because it will decrease our dependence on the automobile and truck but we don't really know how practical our current locations are or if anyone would even ride it or how much it would cost to build and maintain" enthusiasm. This needs to be thought out carefully, or we could be throwing a billion dollars, and then some, into a white elephant.

[edcrunk]

betts, during my 6 years in dallas i totaled two cars a year apart from each other (amazingly in the same lane, at the same intersection, hit on the same side both times by uninsured, illegal immigrants... which is another story for another time) and i had to take the dart during those times. one would see a lot of business people downtown, but they would start thinning out around city place and mockingbird station... which makes me think they did it to avoid parking downtown and everything involved with that fiasco. that's when the make up of travelers would end up mostly as lower income folks that can't afford a car and what not (similar to the types of people that would ride the bus).
the only thing i disliked was the large amount of young thugs and gangsters. which there was a large amount of... even all the way up to plano.

[blangtang]

I ride the 'Sooner Express' bus from Norman's OU campus to downtown OKC from time to time. its 2.25 for the 20 or so mile trip, each way. my car gets less than 45 miles p/gal so it makes sense to ride it now.

problem being, the damn transport system doesnt run that line on saturday or sunday. so much fun to ride up on friday and wait till monday morning to return...

when I ride it back from the downtown transit center in OKC it picks up a ton of suit wearing folks from the federal building area and drops them at the park and ride on robinson/I35 in Norman.

I think the bus system in OKC is awful, god awful to say the least. If you've ever been to portland, oregon/denver/dallas,etc, you okies might realize that we are way behind the times when it comes to people moving.

I think the union station is kind of like the gold dome, something that needs to be preserved and utilized once the time is right.

but on the other hand i think the mass transit bus system needs to be revamped and expanded. isn't that the next MAPS project?

cheers!

[Tom Elmore]

The tone the talk about transit always takes among OKC leaders and Chamber-types has always just amazed me. "Can't be done -- won't work here" -- although trolleys, interurbans and other rail services literally built Oklahoma City.

It's so shrill, so frenzied, so carefully rehearsed as to go "robot monotone," and so completely, transparently absurd that any rational observer immediately understands that these people are simply, blindly protecting the status quo from which they, themselves profit. "Better to rule in hell than serve in heaven," and all that -- the real motto of typical Oklahoma "leadership."

Tiny Gainesville, Texas, a city of less than 15,000 in extreme north Texas (where blue collar Ardmore dwellers have driven daily for years to work at good paying jobs...) made absolute monkeys of every city government in Oklahoma when the Heartland Flyer was dropped in its lap. No thought was ever given there to "leaving customers out in the weather," without restrooms or out under some "open-air gazebo.

Texas proud, Texas savvy Gainesville leaders -- whose historic Santa Fe depot building was not quite ready for service by June 14, 1999, moved a portable school classroom into the parking lot north of the depot building -- where Heartland Flyer riders were met from the git-go with an air conditioned, clean, people-friendly, temporary facility sporting comfortable seating, sparkling restrooms and a well-stocked marketing desk showing you where to go to spend your money in the area.

More than this, however, they already had something substantially in place that no Oklahoma community has to this day -- a real, people-friendly, multimodal transportation hub.

Heartland Flyer passengers would have no trouble reaching Gainesville's Frank Buck Zoo, the historic downtown square, North Central Texas College venues or Factory Shops outlet mall. They had only to walk across the historic Santa Fe depot platform to find that the city's transit vans had already been based there -- and passage was, and is, one dollar.

While Oklahoma leaders were whining and stalling and leaving customers without even restrooms because "everything wasn't perfect" -- the folks in a city nearly too far north to be in Texas -- created a start for modern, multimodal transportation mostly out of their own pride and will.

What if they'd had a facility like OKC Union Station -- which could have and should have been used for THE HEARTLAND FLYER from day one?

THE FLYER should have been supporting itself with a revenues from a healthy mail and express service on the route from Kansas City to Ft. Worth via OKC from the outset -- but Neal McCaleb and ODOT deliberately prevented this, even as Amtrak's Ed Ellis, whose wife's family is from Duncan, worked frantically and persistently to convince McCaleb to tap the opportunity he had carefully tailored for the train. The mail contract was already being trucked up and down I-35, awaiting the train.

But it was a train that never came. McCaleb was not about to do the right thing -- nor were OKC leaders going to insist. They apparently didn't want the train to succeed on its own terms, either -- or Union Station might well already be the Southwestern Hub for the Amtrak intermodal mail and express network that should have been.

So -- the $23 million startup fund that accompanied the train, righteous money by any standard, was burned up covering overhead costs in about four years -- instead of proliferating service to Tulsa, etc. The train now subsists on state subsidy.

THE FLYER was to have been the showpiece of Ed Ellis' "new Amtrak." A man of understanding with the courage to risk his career and reputation trying to bring common sense to Amtrak, Ed had gone "back to the future," with an advanced, intermodal version of the revenue sources that had supported commercial railroads' successful passenger trains from the beginning -- business the railroad industry literally created -- general, economical First Class Mail routing and fast, reliable and inexpensive Express Freight capable of handling literally anything.

But Neal McCaleb and Frank Keating simply would not have it. And it wasn't "enough" just to frustrate THE FLYER's sterling, innovative business plan. They were clearly hell bent to destroy Union Station's usefulness forever -- by putting a highway through the rail yard of the terminal building that had been purchased a decade before with federal transit grant funds for the stated purpose -- documented in reams of accompanying data and analysis -- of becoming our regional transit center -- all done with the written approval and under the signature of Neal McCaleb, Henry Bellmon's Transportation Secretary, in 1989.

That's right. The study of Union Station's suitability for use as our transit center was done pre-1989. COTPA's got it. You'll have to pay 'em to copy it -- and bring a hand-dolly to carry it out.

TOM ELMORE

[SouthsideSooner]

I remain wholly unconvinced and the very thought that this is going to slow down construction of the new crosstown even further is very frustrating.

Tom sounds like an automated recording that just keeps regurgitating the same tired message.

I've read everything he's written and studied the maps and aerial photos and all I see is a hub in the wrong place and tracks going where no one wants to go.

[Toadrax]

The city should have been designed with transportation in mind, and our current layout will be a costly mistake when gas hits $10/gal. (To call that crazy now is no different than calling $4/gal crazy a few years ago).

Our way of life will change, one way or another. I'm considering moving to within walking distance of downtown, I would also consider moving to a place that was on a rail hub going downtown.

It all seems expensive, but not as expensive as where this is going.

[Midtowner]

I remain wholly unconvinced and the very thought that this is going to slow down construction of the new crosstown even further is very frustrating.

Tom sounds like an automated recording that just keeps regurgitating the same tired message.

I've read everything he's written and studied the maps and aerial photos and all I see is a hub in the wrong place and tracks going where no one wants to go.

Union Station services places where there is current development as well as places where there used to be development.

In the case of the later, you would think the city fathers could use this as an opportunity to develop new communities serviced by rail. It is and has always been true that development follows closely behind the addition of rail access.

I wouldn't be opposed to a 2-hub system -- one primarily serving lines running west to east, another serving north to south lines.

As we move on, demand for west-east transit is going to do nothing but increase. In fact, at first at least, our best public transportation customers are coming from NE OKC.

[CuatrodeMayo]

I remain wholly unconvinced and the very thought that this is going to slow down construction of the new crosstown even further is very frustrating.

Tom sounds like an automated recording that just keeps regurgitating the same tired message.

I've read everything he's written and studied the maps and aerial photos and all I see is a hub in the wrong place and tracks going where no one wants to go.

I would agree with most of that.