Classen Circle

[riflesforwatie]

And then the NewsOK article was updated again at 8:53pm removing the citation.

I noticed this this morning. I'm disappointed in NewsOK and the Oklahoman's lack of standards.

[Pete]

I noticed this this morning. I'm disappointed in NewsOK and the Oklahoman's lack of standards.

The fact they did it then removed it says it all.

[baralheia]

I love Braum's, but there's already one 1-mile away, and 8 within a 5-mile radius.

Braum's has been building a bunch of their "Fresh Market" concept stores near their older stores and then closing the older store when the new one is complete. They did this to the Braums on the edge of my neighborhood. The closest one to this proposed location, at NW 36th and Penn, was built in the early '90s, and then remodeled and expanded around 2007. Even despite the relative newness of that store, it wouldn't surprise me if the one they want to build on Classen is to replace the Penn store.

[Pete]

I doubt they will close the 39th & Penn location.

I live nearby and that place is always packed. And there is plenty of room to expand / remodel if they so desired.

Plus, even though these two locations are relatively close as the crow flies, they really would serve completely different markets.

Or perhaps this is all just hopeful thinking on my part!

[riflesforwatie]

I doubt they will close the 39th & Penn location.

I live nearby and that place is always packed. And there is plenty of room to expand / remodel if they so desired.

Plus, even though these two locations are relatively close as the crow flies, they really would serve completely different markets.

Or perhaps this is all just hopeful thinking on my part!

I just don't understand the business case for the proposed Classen Circle location. 39th and Penn is an okay location for a typical interstate drive-thru fast food place. But Classen Circle doesn't make sense to me. Nothing about it screams easy-in/easy-out. Even locals can barely navigate that intersection as it is now. Who can forget the pedestrian danger stories from 2-3 years back about people crossing the street from Edna's to the Fry and HiLo?

[Pete]

^

I do agree this location is a bit of a head-scratcher for lots of reasons independent of tearing down those buildings.

It's also interesting that Braum's bought that small parcel in 2015, so this has likely been in the works for a while.

[shawnw]

Also, they bought land near the Classen/17th location to presumably someday build a true fresh-market there. If that's the plan, makes no sense to build yet another just down the road. That said, if they built one in the vicinity of Classen Circle (but not on the Donnay site), built one downtown (an urban version obvs), and closed the Classen/17 store (to perhaps sell the site for higher use given what's going in the old Marcos spot), I'd be okay with that.

[Joe Kimball]

Yes; I went there for fries yesterday, and I kept missing the hole, as it were, to get out of the place! Braum's drive thrus are already a mess (or at least they were; the ones by me are quite barren these days).

[Pete]

Also, they bought land near the Classen/17th location to presumably someday build a true fresh-market there. If that's the plan, makes no sense to build yet another just down the road. That said, if they built one in the vicinity of Classen Circle (but not on the Donnay site), built one downtown (an urban version obvs), and closed the Classen/17 store (to perhaps sell the site for higher use given what's going in the old Marcos spot), I'd be okay with that.

The strange this is that Braum's purchased the lots just west of their 17th & Classen location and have done absolutely nothing there.

That store is so bad, even by Braum's standards.

(BTW, I really do like Braum's they just frustrate me.)

[LakeEffect]

The strange this is that Braum's purchased the lots just west of their 17th & Classen location and have done absolutely nothing there.

That store is so bad, even by Braum's standards.

(BTW, I really do like Braum's they just frustrate me.)

Amen.

I wrote some stuff here regarding this: https://urbanlakeeffect.wordpress.co...-strong-towns/

[Ross MacLochness]

Braum's has been building a bunch of their "Fresh Market" concept stores near their older stores and then closing the older store when the new one is complete. They did this to the Braums on the edge of my neighborhood. The closest one to this proposed location, at NW 36th and Penn, was built in the early '90s, and then remodeled and expanded around 2007. Even despite the relative newness of that store, it wouldn't surprise me if the one they want to build on Classen is to replace the Penn store.

The replacability of new fast food buildings is one of two reasons these buildings should not be torn down. Older and unique architecture almost never can be replaced. If braums builds here I can almost certainly garuntee that they won't be there as long as the hi-lo has been there, or as long as any of our preserved buildings have been in their places.

The second reason is that we'd be going from a block capable of having five businesses on the same patch of land where braum's is proposing to build one that will eventually get torn down and replaced by something else. It's a bad deal for the city in the long run.

[Pete]

Just taken of the protest. Lots of honks of support from passing motorists.

[rezman]

I like Braum's milk and always choose it over grocery store milk.

Count me in as one who would hate to see this old corner razed. However, I don't think Braums will be hurt by this publicity. They have hundreds of stores in 5 states, so they aren't going anywhere.

[Teo9969]

Always let your councilperson (for the affected properties) know of your issues. It is your council person that will have to vote on the re-zoning and such.

Obviously this as well as my properties are in Shadid's ward, and he will obviously be in opposition to this.

I know that a zoning request will have to pass city council, but is there a preliminary committee that this will pass through before it hits city council?

[Teo9969]

I too like Braum's, but I will absolutely have to stop all consumption from there if they end up tearing this down for a dime-a-dozen drive-thru that is going to fail anyway, because it will be a nightmare to get in and out of...this coming from someone who passes on either side of this restaurant every single day of my life, multiple times a day for many years now.

39th and Penn Braums is literally 3 minutes away. I honestly can't believe there are people living in the area who are so welcoming of saving 3 minutes to lose place-making architecture and one of the very things that helped this area take off quicker than a lot of other areas (like West of Classen, non-Putnam Heights).

In the long run, the street-car is going to pass right by this property. It's either going to be a destination spot with a variety of businesses that bring people from downtown up to what is essentially the gateway to NW OKC, or it's going to be another forgettable slice in the fabric of our city as people pass right on by the area for something more interesting north or south of this proposed tragedy.

[SoonerDave]

I like Braum's milk and always choose it over grocery store milk.

That gap isn't as big as it used to be. We've found a couple of store brands as well as Hiland to be very worthy competitors and make it a lot harder yo justify the extra trip to Braum's for their version.

[Joe Kimball]

That gap isn't as big as it used to be. We've found a couple of store brands as well as Hiland to be very worthy competitors and make it a lot harder yo justify the extra trip to Braum's for their version.

Would you say that other producers are catching on, then, by your taste? I know that the Sonic shakes after eight are a more than worthy substitute! Earlier I mentioned the Braum's shake was fine; my test shake (to determine if a whole milk shake was refused upon request) indeed lacked the "oomph" that one I had a week or so before the change occurred had.

[rezman]

I don't know about the gap, but to me, Braum's milk tastes better than others, including Highland. I've also noticed that if we don't use it up very fast, Braum's milk keeps longer in the fridge than other brands. There's also a Braum's not far from our house so a special trip is no big deal.

I have noticed that their malts have changed. The last two times I got one, they weren't thick at all. ... more like milk with just a little bit of ice cream.

[SoonerDave]

Would you say that other producers are catching on, then, by your taste? I know that the Sonic shakes after eight are a more than worthy substitute! Earlier I mentioned the Braum's shake was fine; my test shake (to determine if a whole milk shake was refused upon request) indeed lacked the "oomph" that one I had a week or so before the change occurred had.

I think they are definitely closing the gap - and I agree that Sonic's shakes (and custards) are amazing. Just too bad they're not something I do very often #blastedcalories.

[KL_Moore]

That gap isn't as big as it used to be. We've found a couple of store brands as well as Hiland to be very worthy competitors and make it a lot harder yo justify the extra trip to Braum's for their version.

Since PR has pressured the dairy industry to cut back on using artificial growth hormones that has made Braum's milk a little less special (one of the things they boasted on a few years ago), but they still win IMO on freshness and how they concentrate the non-fat solids rather than leave it diluted when removing the fat (on the milks where that applies).

[rcjunkie]

Historical properties or not, these buildings are in very poor shape to say the least. If the owners/tenants had kept said properties in good condition, this probably wouldn't even be an issue.

[oklip955]

I'm going to jump in on the talk about Braums milk. No its not the best on the market. I buy only Kalona Supernatural. Whole Foods, Natural Grocers and Sprouts carries it. Is organic produced by Amish farmers in Iowa. they use a variety of cows not just factory Holstein cows. Also most organic milk is ultra pasturized which gives the milk a cooked taste. Kalonia doesn't do that. They don't homoginize their milk so you get cream on top. Kalonia is Way better tasting then Braums milk. I eat at Braums at least once a week for breakfast. If they tear this building down then I'll just scratch it off my list and go someplace else.

[Rover]

I don't know about the gap, but to me, Braum's milk tastes better than others, including Highland. I've also noticed that if we don't use it up very fast, Braum's milk keeps longer in the fridge than other brands. There's also a Braum's not far from our house so a special trip is no big deal.

I have noticed that their malts have changed. The last two times I got one, they weren't thick at all. ... more like milk with just a little bit of ice cream.

If you want it thick, just ask them. Every one I go to gladly makes mine super thick.

[Rover]

Even non preservationists (agnostics) seem incensed they are trying to tear down the Classen building. Hopefully this will springboard them into voicing their opinions on other buildings now, too.

[barrettd]

I'm not necessarily opposed to the buildings on that corner coming down, seeing as how they are in really bad shape, but a standard Braum's is just so boring. At least make the new building interesting, even if it is a Braum's. Make it a one-of-a-kind design that at least echoes the feel of the current building. Make it a new concept, maybe even split level design, ice cream shop on top, food and groceries on bottom.

If they're going to demolish that corner, take some time and really make it interesting instead of just popping up the same store that's all over town.

Reminds me, as has been said in this thread, of the Stage Center coming down. That building was frought with issues that were way too cost-prohibitive to fix, and it was realistic to think it had to come down, as unfortunate as it was. But to plan a parking lot or some other boring building in its place is just a shame. Replace interesting and historic with interesting that will become historic.