Classen Boulevard

[Rover]

I went riding all around downtown from the river, through Bricktown, Film Row/Arts District, and Midtown a couple of weekends ago. I was the ONLY rider I could see along my entire route the entire time. It baffles me that we need more bike routes when the ones we have are rarely used. Where is the demand? I know it is cool to have bike lanes all over, but we need to use what we have and show that there actually are users out there. If we do the same thing with the streetcars and don’t prove demand, it will be really hard to justify expansion.

[CloudDeckMedia]

Rover, I think the problem is that commuters must first ride on unprotected suburban streets in order to reach the downtown bikes lanes & paths, and many don’t want to take that chance. Two personal observations: 1) I ride all of the areas you mention at least three times every week with groups, going to/from the River Trails, then west all the way to Overholser (we frequently come back on 16th Street). We love the protected bike lanes & paths. And 2) I’m returning now from Washington, and although they have few protected bike lanes, there are a lot of bicycle commuters, plus tourists on the DC Bikeshare bikes, rental scooters and a variety of other mechanized forms of transportation. It’s a chaotic mash-up of users!

[Rover]

Actually, I encounter as many riders when I’m riding my area around 63 & Penn on those dreaded suburban streets. Lol. We should be seeing everyday riders where we have lanes, and more overall. And not just for amusement riding. Until we promote biking for real everyday transportation we are just hoping some show up.

[gopokes88]

I went riding all around downtown from the river, through Bricktown, Film Row/Arts District, and Midtown a couple of weekends ago. I was the ONLY rider I could see along my entire route the entire time. It baffles me that we need more bike routes when the ones we have are rarely used. Where is the demand? I know it is cool to have bike lanes all over, but we need to use what we have and show that there actually are users out there. If we do the same thing with the streetcars and don’t prove demand, it will be really hard to justify expansion.

You need to have enough to hit a critical mass. Similar to sidewalks. If one house in the neighborhood has a sidewalk, it’s barely going to get used, if they all do they’ll get used.

[Rover]

We have way too many excuses as to why people don’t do things. How about we demonstrate demand at the same time we create the opportunities. I bike all over my area without dedicated lanes....it can be done. But I find it odd I see more riders and walkers/runners in Nichols Hillls than I do in other younger more urban areas.

[dankrutka]

I’m not an expert, but hasn’t been shown over and over that bike ridership increases with investment in bike infrastructure? OKC has really poor bike infrastructure so low ridership should be expected, right?

[Rover]

I’m not an expert, but hasn’t been shown over and over that bike ridership increases with investment in bike infrastructure? OKC has really poor bike infrastructure so low ridership should be expected, right?

Of course it will increase it, but we have a woeful commitment to biking and walking in this city regardless of infrastructure. All I am saying is we need to commit ourselves to these forms of transit. Showing more demand goes a long way to showing support for polititions trying to justify the investment.

[Laramie]

If we try and justify whether or not a project will pay for itself, we'll never get anything built. Try to look at this from a holistic quality-of-life approach, you need balance, some projects will get a modest return--others will not. Projects that enhance a city's quality-of-life will change the perception & trajectory of our city.

[HangryHippo]

Of course it will increase it, but we have a woeful commitment to biking and walking in this city regardless of infrastructure. All I am saying is we need to commit ourselves to these forms of transit. Showing more demand goes a long way to showing support for polititions trying to justify the investment.

If showing demand involves taking your life into your own hands by riding where there's no appropriate infrastructure, then I'll hold off on showing more demand.

[soonerguru]

I went riding all around downtown from the river, through Bricktown, Film Row/Arts District, and Midtown a couple of weekends ago. I was the ONLY rider I could see along my entire route the entire time. It baffles me that we need more bike routes when the ones we have are rarely used. Where is the demand? I know it is cool to have bike lanes all over, but we need to use what we have and show that there actually are users out there. If we do the same thing with the streetcars and don’t prove demand, it will be really hard to justify expansion.

I’ve used those bike lanes and I’m not even an avid cyclist. Those bike lanes felt tremendously unsafe.

[ABCOKC]

Actually, I encounter as many riders when I’m riding my area around 63 & Penn on those dreaded suburban streets. Lol. We should be seeing everyday riders where we have lanes, and more overall. And not just for amusement riding. Until we promote biking for real everyday transportation we are just hoping some show up.

Lol.

[hoya]

I think Classen might work better if we turned the median into a dedicated streetcar lane. On one side we could have a protected bicycle path. I don't think that would require eliminating a lane north of 23rd. South of 23rd the traffic isn't really that bad.

[Rover]

If showing demand involves taking your life into your own hands by riding where there's no appropriate infrastructure, then I'll hold off on showing more demand.

Lol. I ride all over the north of the city and don’t feel like I’m taking my life in my hands. Do I wish for more protected and dedicated lanes, of course. If I can do it at 65, where are all these 20-30 something’s out biking? They sure don’t seem to be in OKC. I’m certainly for more and better biking conditions, but not just to be cool. It would be great to know are actually going to use them.

[mugofbeer]

If we try and justify whether or not a project will pay for itself, we'll never get anything built. Try to look at this from a holistic quality-of-life approach, you need balance, some projects will get a modest return--others will not. Projects that enhance a city's quality-of-life will change the perception & trajectory of our city.

So, again, designate some lesser or little-used side streets as "bike and alternative wheeled only except for local traffic" (busses, too, maybe) and not mess with major traffic arteries? Re: Classen, if you're going to sacrifice a lane of traffic in each way, I'd rather see it done for a light rail line.

[Rover]

Rover, I think the problem is that commuters must first ride on unprotected suburban streets in order to reach the downtown bikes lanes & paths, and many don’t want to take that chance. Two personal observations: 1) I ride all of the areas you mention at least three times every week with groups, going to/from the River Trails, then west all the way to Overholser (we frequently come back on 16th Street). We love the protected bike lanes & paths. And 2) I’m returning now from Washington, and although they have few protected bike lanes, there are a lot of bicycle commuters, plus tourists on the DC Bikeshare bikes, rental scooters and a variety of other mechanized forms of transportation. It’s a chaotic mash-up of users!

You just made my point...DC has lots of commuters on bikes, as do many other cities, even though it is “a chaotic mash-up of users”. Weekend riders on scenic trails is great...use them myself... but everyday use/demand would be useful to get more infrastructure. And, someone indicated earlier that it shouldn’t be about profit and loss, which I totally agree with. However it IS about VALUE. We need to demonstrate value and the pressure it creates from a more active and influential constituency. I’ve been in other cities where communities of bikers are actually political activists using all kinds of meathods to influence. Activism can be cool too.

[Urbanized]

I’ll share some links later today if I get some time, but there is well-documented and compelling evidence that the only way to increase bicycle participation - including commuting but also among women, families and the non-spandex crowd - is to invest in infrastructure. It’s been proven in cities as disparate as Copenhagen and Minneapolis.

Go search for an image of Copenhagen in the sixties and you’ll see the same types of traffic snarls, dangerous roadways, plazas given over to surface parking and the like that we see in the U.S. today. Read up on Minneapolis and you’ll find that people there bicycle commute even in winter, and in snow, with plowed and even heated bike paths. In both cases the culture changes and adoption of cycling were caused by thoughtful planning and infrastructure changes, not the other way around.

There is also excellent evidence that thoughtful bicycle and sidewalk infrastructure investment actually improves the experience and safety of not only the protected modes of transit but for drivers of automobiles, as the presence of cyclists and pedestrians in an intuitive environment improves sight lines and has a traffic calming effect (fewer speeders, gambles and aggressive moves in traffic). At the same time there is ALSO evidence that it can increase efficiency and even make commutes faster for automobiles. An example is that overall commute times for automobiles actually DECREASED in Manhattan with the addition of bike lanes and the pedestrianization of Broadway, which totally flew in the face of accepted logic.

[benjico]

I went riding all around downtown from the river, through Bricktown, Film Row/Arts District, and Midtown a couple of weekends ago. I was the ONLY rider I could see along my entire route the entire time. It baffles me that we need more bike routes when the ones we have are rarely used. Where is the demand? I know it is cool to have bike lanes all over, but we need to use what we have and show that there actually are users out there. If we do the same thing with the streetcars and don’t prove demand, it will be really hard to justify expansion.

Go at 7 a.m. on Saturdays before the heat sets in an you'll see a different picture. I saw over 50 cyclists on the river trails this past weekend in an hour of biking.

[CCOKC]

I have walked almost the entire trail system at one point and can attest that the trails are very well used on Saturday mornings before the heat of the day. I usually count hundreds of bikers. (I literally am counting something in my head at most times btw)

[GoldFire]

I was in Amsterdam and Copenhagen a few weeks back and can confirm both are biking paradise. I don't remember seeing a street anywhere in either city that didn't have dedicated bike lanes, and so we never felt unsafe biking all over both cities (and Copenhagen had a fair amount of car traffic as well).

[Thomas Vu]

+1 for Amsterdam biking

[shawnw]

Very quick video of the new sidewalk/retaining walls on the east side of Classen just south of 16th.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/dER2UKEAEMec292c9

[Teo9969]

I'm all for improving biking infrastructure in the long run, but it seems an exercise in poor prioritization until we show a serious commitment to increased density outside of downtown.

From May/63rd down to Capitol Hill up to the Health Science Center to the Capitol and back over to Belle Isle --- there need to be laws put into place that demand new construction in these areas increase the density of residents, and then we need to actually see that increase before we start talking about adding bike-lanes to thoroughfares.

[jedicurt]

I'm all for improving biking infrastructure in the long run, but it seems an exercise in poor prioritization until we show a serious commitment to increased density outside of downtown.

From May/63rd down to Capitol Hill up to the Health Science Center to the Capitol and back over to Belle Isle --- there need to be laws put into place that demand new construction in these areas increase the density of residents, and then we need to actually see that increase before we start talking about adding bike-lanes to thoroughfares.

i think completely opposite of you... i think once the infrastructure is in place... then it's time to start increasing density... to increase density now, without great public transit (or even good public transit) and being completely pedestrian unfriendly, is a terrible idea. forcing the demand to then hopefully get to the infrastructure to support that demand down the line, leads to bad design in infrastructure. whereas building the infrastructure now with great design and an overall plan would do a lot to encourage an increase in density, all on it's own without the need for laws requiring it.

[DallasOkie086]

I tend to agree with the "build it and they will come" methodology. Once you set the infrastructure areas that are typically considered less attractive become more plausible for developers. This also provides some continuity throughout the neighborhoods. Sidewalks, bus stops, proper lighting goes a long way in improving a desolate area. Obviously this is something that should be strategically done and with future development in mind.

[HangryHippo]

i think completely opposite of you... i think once the infrastructure is in place... then it's time to start increasing density... to increase density now, without great public transit (or even good public transit) and being completely pedestrian unfriendly, is a terrible idea. forcing the demand to then hopefully get to the infrastructure to support that demand down the line, leads to bad design in infrastructure. whereas building the infrastructure now with great design and an overall plan would do a lot to encourage an increase in density, all on it's own without the need for laws requiring it.

I'm with you on this one.