When it comes to pedestrian connections, the boulevard is a dead end.

[bdhumphreys]

By the way, I am 0/1 and batting 0.00% on positive comments. If anyone else wants to offer a comment at the OKGazette, it would be much appreciated.

[bdhumphreys]

BAW -

Quick question, what is the height of the building as modeled?

Appreciate you doing this. Interesting to think through and a useful analysis.

I wonder what the real implications are for the Crystal Bridge botanical gardens. I don't have the answer, but I do think it is an issue that is worth further consideration.

Thanks!

[Larry OKC]

Are we sure about those 6 lanes of traffic? I thought the mayor had said it is not the plan to have a road with more than 4 lanes.

Seems to be conflicting info. Recall a Council meeting a while back where it was mentioned during a presentation that either due to ODOT or feds, that 6 lanes were a requirement. Was a throw away comment that didn't get a reaction at all. Since then, they seem to have backed off on it but not sure where things stand currently.

[ljbab728]

BAW, the plants in the gardens will be just fine even with some shade for a small part of the year. It's just not a major concern even if it would be nice to have a continous park going south.

[betts]

Seems to be conflicting info. Recall a Council meeting a while back where it was mentioned during a presentation that either due to ODOT or feds, that 6 lanes were a requirement. Was a throw away comment that didn't get a reaction at all. Since then, they seem to have backed off on it but not sure where things stand currently.

Maybe that's a requirement to get the federal money to fund it. Personally, I'd rather the city just build a simple four land street with city money. We probably could have used Project 180 money to do so.

[CaseyCornett]

This was what I envisioned when I thought of the 270' of space for the Boulevard. This is Calle del Prado in Madrid. Yes, photo shows 4 lanes in one direction (but it's OBVIOUS we don't need/want four lanes in one direction so imagine it with as many lanes as you want) and on the far side of the photo (hard to see) is the opposite direction of traffic.
I have traveled to many places and this is the best example I can think of in having a park/median and still have a Boulevard and keep it pedestrian friendly. That park space is used all the time...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30796964@N02/5373107940/

[betts]

Casey, how do you cross the street to get to the median?

[rcjunkie]

Casey, how do you cross the street to get to the median?

Push the little button, wait for the walk sign to light up, cross. DUH

[betts]

Do you see a stop light with a button to push? Perhaps I'm not paying enough attention to detail, but I see none. I would be happier with a wider boulevard if it had a stop light on every corner with a button to push so that people could actually get across the boulevard anywhere they chose. If we have to walk six blocks to find a crosswalk, that may force people to walk, but it's more likely that people will simply not choose to go there. I haven't seen too many people strolling down Northwest Highway recently. Pedestrian friendly should be the watchword here, not an afterthought.

[betts]

I will throw in a lighter story here about crossing streets as a pedestrian. I was in Europe as a college student with my sister. We decided to go to the Coliseum in Rome. When we got there, we discovered that to get to it we had to cross an extremely wide road with traffic driving at breakneck speeds, but there was a stoplight with a button to push. We pushed the button and waited expectantly, only to discover that the cars absolutely ignored the red light and continued driving through it at amazing speeds for in-city driving. We were completely at a loss when we saw an elderly Italian woman walk up. She was dressed all in black, was hunched over and quite elderly. She was carrying a closed umbrella. She walked into the street, raised her umbrella and started yelling and waving the umbrella around in the air. Amazingly, cars began to come to a halt and she gave a few that stopped too close to her a sharp tap with her umbrella. My sister and I looked at each other in amazement, popped right in behind her and crossed the road unscathed.

Not exactly pedestrian friendly.

[rondvu]

Here is an interesting article about the design of the roads in Brasilia. Hope we don't wind up with something like it. http://discoveringurbanism.blogspot....-brasilia.html

Also think about the fountain for the boulevard that has been mentioned. The one at Memorial Park On Classen is always under the treat of being shut down due to lack of funds.
I am all in favor of the putting the pedestrian first and the car second. What do I know, I am no city planner this is my opinions and we all have them. Just my thoughts for the day.

[Spartan]

By the way, I am 0/1 and batting 0.00% on positive comments. If anyone else wants to offer a comment at the OKGazette, it would be much appreciated.

Blair-Just a suggestion, but use stronger critical language to describe how you really feel about the proposed boulevard, and focus more on how simple your solution is. Realistically the only ones it would alienate is ODOT who's not that popular anyway, and isn't hiring too many MIT urban planners these days. This column came across as almost "too polite" which just might not stir people to leave a comment, which first requires registering. There are serious issues and these decision makers need to be roused by strong, persuasive criticism that almost blisters.

[Spartan]

This was what I envisioned when I thought of the 270' of space for the Boulevard. This is Calle del Prado in Madrid. Yes, photo shows 4 lanes in one direction (but it's OBVIOUS we don't need/want four lanes in one direction so imagine it with as many lanes as you want) and on the far side of the photo (hard to see) is the opposite direction of traffic.
I have traveled to many places and this is the best example I can think of in having a park/median and still have a Boulevard and keep it pedestrian friendly. That park space is used all the time...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30796964@N02/5373107940/

I would call this accurate of what I think Betts and I were suggesting on the last page. Just, no more than 2 lanes, and not 16' lanes, and divide at mid-block with ped-xings, and make sure that the outside edges are reinforced heavily by uniform buildings.

[rcjunkie]

Do you see a stop light with a button to push? Perhaps I'm not paying enough attention to detail, but I see none. I would be happier with a wider boulevard if it had a stop light on every corner with a button to push so that people could actually get across the boulevard anywhere they chose. If we have to walk six blocks to find a crosswalk, that may force people to walk, but it's more likely that people will simply not choose to go there. I haven't seen too many people strolling down Northwest Highway recently. Pedestrian friendly should be the watchword here, not an afterthought.

In a very early rendering/sketch, you won't have or see all the details.

[bdhumphreys]

Blair-Just a suggestion, but use stronger critical language to describe how you really feel about the proposed boulevard, and focus more on how simple your solution is. Realistically the only ones it would alienate is ODOT who's not that popular anyway, and isn't hiring too many MIT urban planners these days. This column came across as almost "too polite" which just might not stir people to leave a comment, which first requires registering. There are serious issues and these decision makers need to be roused by strong, persuasive criticism that almost blisters.

You might be right. I try to speak softly, but I may still need to find a big stick.

[okclee]

Has it already been determined that the existing elevated sections of I-40 will be completely demolished?

I am asking because, I have seen examples of old highways being turned into green space with grass and park like area in place of the highway. Could Okc somehow salvage a partial section of the existing elevated I-40 and use it as a green space park trail?

What if the existing elevated I-40 was transformed into a green space and one could actually go over the new boulevard?

[Rover]

Here is an interesting site on this very topic...highways to boulevards
http://www.cnu.org/highways

[Kerry]

This was what I envisioned when I thought of the 270' of space for the Boulevard. This is Calle del Prado in Madrid. Yes, photo shows 4 lanes in one direction (but it's OBVIOUS we don't need/want four lanes in one direction so imagine it with as many lanes as you want) and on the far side of the photo (hard to see) is the opposite direction of traffic.
I have traveled to many places and this is the best example I can think of in having a park/median and still have a Boulevard and keep it pedestrian friendly. That park space is used all the time...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30796964@N02/5373107940/

It took me a few minutes but I found the exact spot of that photo on Google Earth. The center median actaully has a fence on the other side that prevents people from entering the media except at certain parts. In 2,000 feet there are just two crosswalks (there are lights to stop traffic). To the right is a large park which is also surrounded by a fence with entry only allowed at certain points. The picture was taken right in front of the Museo del Prado if anyone wants to take a look at the area. It remind me of Park Lane (the widest street in London) as it passes by Hyde Park. This is what I picture Robinson or Walker looking like since they have a longer street frontage (not a road that only has 1 block of park frontage).

[CaseyCornett]

Ours will have one block of park frontage...but this type of boulevard would put a park all the way down the center of the boulevard.

[Rover]

This, from San Francisco.

[betts]

This, from San Francisco.

This is only two lanes wide, right? It is visually appealing and doesn't look dangerous to cross. I would be fine with something like it. I think it will be very important to make sure pedestrians have right of way as well.

[Kerry]

That is a picture of Octavia Blvd in San Franciso. Most of it is a total of 6 lanes of traffic (four for thru traffic and 2 service roads serive residential buildings). I don't see it being anything different than what Project 180 is going to deliver along other major streets. The photo is of a small park that is only 290 feet long and is in a heavy residential area (there is no retail on Ocatavia). I still think the major iconic streets need to run N/S where there is 4,800 feet of park frontage on each side of the park. That is nearly 10,000 linear feet to work with. If you go from Stars and Stripes Park south of the Oklahoma River to Devon it over 16,000 linear feet of park frontage. That is some serious moulding clay.

[Spartan]

This is only two lanes wide, right? It is visually appealing and doesn't look dangerous to cross. I would be fine with something like it. I think it will be very important to make sure pedestrians have right of way as well.

This is a really interesting example. I am intrigued by this because it appears to have a specific function in mind, to carry large volumes of traffic through a very dense area, and it utilizes the very concept that was originally in the Core2Shore dream boulevard with separated parking bays and have a sort of small-scale street level highway feel to it. Here are some more pictures of it:












It also seems to have come about from the removal of a real freeway, so it's close to OKC's situation with this boulevard. I just question if what we're looking for is something that moves large amounts of traffic in a very dense area. I don't think there will be that much traffic, and I also don't see what makes this boulevard more likely to get people to drive down it than Reno, Sheridan, or Main..all 3 are big 4-lane roads.

Some criticism of it:
http://sfcitizen.com/blog/2009/08/21...via-boulevard/

Support argument of it:
http://streetswiki.wikispaces.com/Em...reeway+Removal

[Rover]

Octavia seems to change depending on the needs of the specific areas it is going through. This seems like a very pragmatic solution. The entire length doesn't have to have the same purpose. Move the traffic that comes off I-40 and then distribute it elsewhere and have a more park-like boulevard as it gets closer to the park and through areas more likely to be residential. The closer to downtown the more stops and pedestrian crossings. Trees and large shrubs in the landscaped median breaks up the concrete strip and could create a really appealing entry into the heart of the city.

[kevinpate]

Is it just me, or is that passageway nearly as wide as the new I-40 will be when you include the parking areas to the sides?