Penn Square Mall Update

[mranderson]

That's exactly why. OKC is as large land wise, but only 1/10 the people. That what creates one of the lowest population densities in the US.

Keep in mind, I said "population not withstanding." I am quite aware of the difference in population as LA-Orange County is one of my playgrounds. The rest of the theory is what makes no sense. It should be obvious the second or third largest area in the nation by population will get top billing.

[okcpulse]

I sill don't buy population density as a means of measurement for locating a restaurant in a certain market.

Tulsa may be smaller in land area, but it being 'one big area' has nothing to do with location scouting. The fact is, all of Tulsa's affluent areas are in one area, whereas Oklahoma City's affluent areas are in northwest OKC, far south OKC, Edmond and the Quail Springs region.

Even though Oklahoma City is 608 square miles, look at a wall map of the city sometime. The area that has been urbanized covers only a third of that, right in the middle. The rest is rural space with a few streets here and there. Which means a good 95 percent lives within that urbanized area... not to mention the swallowed suburbs of Nichols Hills, The Village, Warr Acres and Bethany. I call it the core of Oklahoma City. If it were LITERALLY spread out over all 608 square miles, we'd all have 30 acre backyards.

So no, I don't buy into population density. That distorts the true population density of areas that have been urbanized.

[mranderson]

"Even though Oklahoma City is 608 square miles..."

Oklahoma City is 620 square miles.

[Decious]

I sill don't buy population density as a means of measurement for locating a restaurant in a certain market.

Tulsa may be smaller in land area, but it being 'one big area' has nothing to do with location scouting. The fact is, all of Tulsa's affluent areas are in one area, whereas Oklahoma City's affluent areas are in northwest OKC, far south OKC, Edmond and the Quail Springs region.

Even though Oklahoma City is 608 square miles, look at a wall map of the city sometime. The area that has been urbanized covers only a third of that, right in the middle. The rest is rural space with a few streets here and there. Which means a good 95 percent lives within that urbanized area... not to mention the swallowed suburbs of Nichols Hills, The Village, Warr Acres and Bethany. I call it the core of Oklahoma City. If it were LITERALLY spread out over all 608 square miles, we'd all have 30 acre backyards.

So no, I don't buy into population density. That distorts the true population density of areas that have been urbanized.

So true. And as I said I believe this thinking is very convoluted and erroneous. Nonetheless, that's a large part of the reasoning behind waiting to locate here. It's amazing! Once the franchises or the like finally build here, they rush in and build multiple locations. It's amazing that skewed numbers on some spreadsheet cause so many businesses to miss out on the oppotunities that exist here.

[BDP]

So no, I don't buy into population density. That distorts the true population density of areas that have been urbanized.

They actually don't look at it by the whole city. They look at a location and then they look at a 5 mile radius, then 10 and then 15, and then beyond. There is a market share equation that estimates their pull within those boundaries. Even by this method, our density is low in many areas comparatively. But this is why memorial is taking off and usually lands the new chains. The area bordered by memorial, 122nd, May and Penn, is one of the densest areas in the city. Beyond that, Edmond offers good income density. This is also one of the fastest growing residential areas of the city.

Some may not want it to be a factor and numbers can easily skew a market, but the fact is that it is a factor and no one is going to risk 100s of thousands on an investment if it doesn't fit their formulas. It’s just the way people do business, especially when they are far removed from that community. It's only after they have saturated other areas using their formulas that they reevaluate an area like Oklahoma City. Our city's low population density may not ultimately affect the success of an establishment placed in the right locale, but it certainly delays the initial interest of the decision makers.

So, it is, in fact, a reason Tulsa attracts some nationals before OKC does.

But this is one reason why bricktown and downtown can be very beneficial to OKC. We can create virtual density by drawing from the entire city. They will look at traffic as an indicator.

Personally, though, I don't think chains are a reason anyone travels to other cities and are not necessarily a measure of a city's health or quality of life. IMO, successful local eateries and outlets add much more to the character of a community and do more for its sustained success. When people talk about NYC, SF, Chicago, New Orleans, and LA as great places to eat, they are not talking about Cheesecak Factory or Red Robins.

[windowphobe]

Knock out 16 square miles of inland water (Hefner, Stanley Draper, Overholser), and you're looking at somewhere around 604.

At one point, the number was up to 640, but some really distant areas - for instance, in McClain County, now the north end of Newcastle - were deannexed.