Cannabis

[Plutonic Panda]

What details need to be worked out?

Also, I'm not an expert on this but it was my understanding that pot was made illegal because of the hemp. I haven't really looked into it, so I'm not sure how true that is.

I do know I have smoked pot before and I am also for personal freedom. Pot does nothing to endanger people, so I don't see what the problem is.

I am about as liberal as it gets on this issue. I don't do harder drugs, but what you put into your own body is your business.

[Jim Kyle]

what you put into your own body is your business.

Yes, up to the point that it injures others. Alcohol is up to the individual, but driving a vehicle while impaired by it is not.

The late John W. Campbell had an interesting idea, more than 40 years ago: Do away with ALL "morality" laws, but at the same time do away with the cultural rule that people should be saved from the consequences of their (bad) choices. That is, don't bother to treat overdosing at public expense. Let the consequence make its point.

From a purely logical point of view, it would be efficient -- and probably improve the gene pool at the same time. Of course, it'll never happen...

[Plutonic Panda]

Yes, up to the point that it injures others. Alcohol is up to the individual, but driving a vehicle while impaired by it is not.

The late John W. Campbell had an interesting idea, more than 40 years ago: Do away with ALL "morality" laws, but at the same time do away with the cultural rule that people should be saved from the consequences of their (bad) choices. That is, don't bother to treat overdosing at public expense. Let the consequence make its point.

From a purely logical point of view, it would be efficient -- and probably improve the gene pool at the same time. Of course, it'll never happen...

I understand that. There are certain drugs like cocaine and LSD I think should be legalized, taxed, and regulated. I'm probably in a severe minority who believes that.

There are other drugs like PCP, Heroin, bath salts, etc. that I think should be decriminalized and instead of throwing people in prison, they should be sent to mandatory rehab centers.

This might be an extreme point of view, but I think there should be certain cities or designated areas in the U.S. built where almost any drug is legalized. There are quite a few people out there that no matter what you do, they will never leave drugs. Instead of punishing them, I think we should work with them, and if found that after time and time again, they go back to drugs, have a city or town for them and provide them with the tools necessary to become self efficient. There are obviously flaws with that idea that need to be worked out like how they would buy the drugs, how it would be regulated, how they would make money to buy it and so on. But I'm willing to bet it would be less expensive to have some officials regulating it and selling it with taxes then just locking up all these repeat offenders.

[Bunty]

Alcohol is a drug. A far more dangerous drug than cannabis.

Amazing how the media and OBN seem so highly worried about the very strong varieties of marijuana, like hash, but nobody is concerned how 190 proof Everclear is readily available in Oklahoma liquor stores, even though if one is foolish enough too drink too much of it, it can kill, or make one very ill.

[Bunty]

Yesterday, while gathering signatures in downtown Stillwater, I came across a long time activist couple who signed. It wasn't good to hear them say that back while helping with the petition to ban cockfighting in Oklahoma that two out of state organizations had to come in to make sure there would be enough signatures. I guess it was easy to prioritize and target Oklahoma to ban cockfighting, since it used to the only one of a few states that didn't ban it. Still, what a pity if legalizing medical marijuana in Oklahoma isn't able to rise to the same level of importance as getting cockfighting banned.

Signatures for the petition to vote on legalizing medical marijuana in Oklahoma still aren't coming in at a high enough rate to get the required 124,000 by year's end.

[jerrywall]

Cannabis has been shown to be non-addicting in a physiological sense.

Ehh, not so fast. I support legalization, but I've seen too many studies to the contrary on that point. It's a smaller percentage compared to other drugs, but marijuana stimulates the endocannabinoid and can cause changes in the brain which can result in addition. The last numbers I saw were like 9%. Higher if folks start smoking in their teens. And this percentage will likely increase as more potent marijuana is developed and people increase the amount of THC they intake.

This is important to note not to argue against marijuana, but because folks who've crossed the line and are abusing it at a serious and dangerous level are less likely to seek help since they see "it's not addictive" often repeated.

[FighttheGoodFight]

Ehh, not so fast. I support legalization, but I've seen too many studies to the contrary on that point. It's a smaller percentage compared to other drugs, but marijuana stimulates the endocannabinoid sand can cause changes in the brain which can result in addition. The last numbers I saw were like 9%. High if folks start smoking in their teens. And this percentage will likely increase as more potent marijuana is developed and people increase the amount of THC they intake.

This is important to note not to argue against marijuana, but because folks who've crossed the line and are abusing it at a serious and dangerous level are less likely to seek help since they see "it's not addictive" often repeated.

Correct. It can be addictive. Paper on it: Probability and predictors of transition from first use to dependence on nicotine, alcohol, cannabis, and cocaine: Results of the National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions (NESARC)

I think it is 17% in teens and 9% in adults. That is not low. People got to realize everything can be addictive and MJ is not some cure all drug.

I think legalization is fine. I don't really care if people use drugs.

[gopokes88]

Yesterday, while gathering signatures in downtown Stillwater, I came across a long time activist couple who signed. It wasn't good to hear them say that back while helping with the petition to ban cockfighting in Oklahoma that two out of state organizations had to come in to make sure there would be enough signatures. I guess it was easy to prioritize and target Oklahoma to ban cockfighting, since it used to the only one of a few states that didn't ban it. Still, what a pity if legalizing medical marijuana in Oklahoma isn't able to rise to the same level of importance as getting cockfighting banned.

Signatures for the petition to vote on legalizing medical marijuana in Oklahoma still aren't coming in at a high enough rate to get the required 124,000 by year's end.

I don't really care if weed is legal or not, and I'm not going to take time out of my day to go one way or the other on it.

That right there is why they are struggling.

[Bunty]

I don't really care if weed is legal or not, and I'm not going to take time out of my day to go one way or the other on it.

That right there is why they are struggling.

So, no doubt this attitude quite strongly suggests how many people and their family members have been in splendidly good health and so can't possibly relate to the need for medical marijuana. Ever had a migraine headache? You can't imagine what they're like, until you had one. Some people have noticed their migraine headaches cease after smoking marijuana for a while.

[Tundra]

So, no doubt this attitude quite strongly suggests how many people and their family members have been in splendidly good health and so can't possibly relate to the need for medical marijuana. Ever had a migraine headache? You can't imagine what they're like, until you had one. Some people have noticed their migraine headaches cease after smoking marijuana for a while.

I think if people were to just approach it in the real manner , which is the majority of people that are for it aren't sick, they just want to smoke pot and get high.....plain and simple , nobody is sick in Colorado.. Just tell the truth people...

[gopokes88]

So, no doubt this attitude quite strongly suggests how many people and their family members have been in splendidly good health and so can't possibly relate to the need for medical marijuana. Ever had a migraine headache? You can't imagine what they're like, until you had one. Some people have noticed their migraine headaches cease after smoking marijuana for a while.

I get that, but Oklahoma is going to pretty apathetic toward medical MJ

[soonerguru]

I'm not surprised this is struggling. Not because there aren't enough potential voters / signers, but because of the people organizing the effort. This is not a professional campaign organization. This could easily meet the threshold for the ballot with the right leadership.

[soonerguru]

I get that, but Oklahoma is going to pretty apathetic toward medical MJ

I agree. They should just promote legalization and / or decriminalization.

[soonerguru]

I don't really care if weed is legal or not, and I'm not going to take time out of my day to go one way or the other on it.

That right there is why they are struggling.

Oh, so you are the keystone of the vox populi? I get it. What you believe is what the voters believe. We should just consult you for your opinion on future issues / candidates, because what you believe represents reality.

[jerrywall]

Oh, so you are the keystone of the vox populi? I get it. What you believe is what the voters believe. We should just consult you for your opinion on future issues / candidates, because what you believe represents reality.

Based on the success of the petitions so far... yeah.

[Bunty]

I'm not surprised this is struggling. Not because there aren't enough potential voters / signers, but because of the people organizing the effort. This is not a professional campaign organization. This could easily meet the threshold for the ballot with the right leadership.

In other words, a pro organization would be able to attract money to pay signature takers? Maybe a non-pro organization could get $250,000 but wouldn't know how to find enough signature takers to employ as well.

The current group with the petition probably should have not split off from and agreed with Oklahomans For Health decision to delay relaunching their petition around March. OFH had not yet felt prepared.

If the petition can get up to 100,000 signatures by mid December, maybe that will inspire more volunteers, hoping they can make the difference. In other words, the snowball effect. As of Nov. 10 signature count is 32,117.

[onthestrip]

I'm not surprised this is struggling. Not because there aren't enough potential voters / signers, but because of the people organizing the effort. This is not a professional campaign organization. This could easily meet the threshold for the ballot with the right leadership.

Very true. I encountered petitioners outside of CHK arena last week and they were not professional acting or looking. I dont see them getting it done. Better luck to the other group that will give it a go next year. With the extremely low turnout for the last general election (meaning that they need fewer signatures), getting it done before next years presidential election is critical

[Jim Kyle]

Correct. It can be addictive. Paper on it: Probability and predictors of transition from first use to dependence on nicotine, alcohol, cannabis, and cocaine: Results of the National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions (NESARC)

I think it is 17% in teens and 9% in adults. That is not low. People got to realize everything can be addictive and MJ is not some cure all drug.

I think legalization is fine. I don't really care if people use drugs.

This cannot be repeated often enough!!! Not enough folk understand that addiction exists in two related but independent varieties. One is psychological in nature and the other is physical.

If one has a tendency toward the psychological variety, anything at all can be addictive. I was quite fortunate that my own addiction to nicotine was of this sort rather than the other -- despite 40 years of smoking, I was finally able to quit, cold turkey, with none of the physical withdrawal symptoms. My wife, on the other hand, had become physically addicted to it and was unable to quit for another 15 years, then suffered physically for quite some time afterward.

It's important to understand -- and accept -- this distinction when dealing with those substances generally thought to be addictive by their nature. Insofar as legalization goes, if one is going to outlaw everything that can be addictive, one must outlaw such things as food! Perhaps those items that are most likely to induce physical addiction could be regulated, but then the question arises of "to what degree" and will always interfere with the individual exercise of free choice. The only points in this debate of which I'm certain are that there's no "one size fits all" answer, and that the current cultural rules fit the canonical definition of insanity: repeatedly following a path that consistently fails to achieve the desired result!

[White Peacock]

The natural cannabis growing on the river is not the same as the one you grow today either.

Right; the engineered breeds available nowadays are far more effective with much less exposure. A designer strain can produce effects in half a bowl that would have taken a whole joint in a less effective strain. If you ask me, less inhaled smoke producing the same level of high is a good thing.

[Bunty]

Very true. I encountered petitioners outside of CHK arena last week and they were not professional acting or looking. I dont see them getting it done. Better luck to the other group that will give it a go next year. With the extremely low turnout for the last general election (meaning that they need fewer signatures), getting it done before next years presidential election is critical

I know they have had a lot of frustration in getting volunteers in Stillwater and OSU. With enough volunteers, pre-game for the tailgating at OSU might be good for a 1000 signatures with a bunch more on the strip after the game. But hardly anyone is out there getting them then. At least, the group seems more extensively organized than the failed petition drive to get storm shelters in schools.

[OKCRT]

For a week or so I seen some folks at NW Expressway and Meridian taking signatures but they vanished and have not been seen in a while. I know of several people that were going to stop sign the petition (me included) and POOF-they were gone.

If they expect to gain enough sigs they need to be there on a regular basis. People will drive by and think about it for a few days then go to sign and find no one there. I assume they are prob. doing this at other stops also. They have to be there for people to sign or they won't have a chance.

[TheTravellers]

It needs to be professionally run. One of the states that legalized it had an organization that had enough money behind it to be consistent with their locations, hire professional signature-takers, etc. And they won. I doubt any petition here will be successful until something like that happens, sadly.

[Bunty]

For a week or so I seen some folks at NW Expressway and Meridian taking signatures but they vanished and have not been seen in a while. I know of several people that were going to stop sign the petition (me included) and POOF-they were gone.

If they expect to gain enough sigs they need to be there on a regular basis. People will drive by and think about it for a few days then go to sign and find no one there. I assume they are prob. doing this at other stops also. They have to be there for people to sign or they won't have a chance.

There's more than a few business locations in OKC that have the petition: Green The Vote Oklahoma in Tulsa, Ok

[TU 'cane]

This does need better organization.
Around where I'm at, the people sitting on the street corners are waving big black flags with a marijuana leaf and a red caduceus that's kind of hard to see. I have yet to see signs that say anything about it being for medical marijuana purposes, so people just waving a flag around with a big marijuana leaf around probably isn't very enticing.

They'll need over 100,000 signatures minimum to be just barely over the required threshold by the end of December.
I'm not sure why this can't get at least half of the student populations at OU, OSU, TU, and the other universities in the state. Is there a rule against petitioning for this on college campuses? Those should be hot beds. And I can't imagine there are that many out of state residents taking up residence at our universities.

[Bunty]

Isaac Caviness, head of the Oklahoma medical marijuana petition drive, to get humanitarian award at state capitol on Dec. 10th. Shown pictured while registering voters in June: Oklahoma medical marijuana advocate to receive humanitarian award | www.krmg.com. The publicity will be good for signatures, but enough of them? As with Caviness, too often the situation has to hit close to home and the heart before anybody wants to do something about it.