Streetcar

[BoulderSooner]

@BoulderSooner,

I worry OKC residents seeing it not be for them will stall any movement for expansion. Even if it is Phase 1 and there's a bigger vision - most people I talk to view the Streetcar as a giant waste of MAPS money. It's more often than not, driving around empty from Mon-Thurs. I don't know how there would be enough public support for expansion.

IMO - the more likely and needed rail project that would actually benefit locals would be a rail system that connects Edmond, Downtown, Tinker, Norman, and WRWA.

i don't disagree ..

i will also say the streetcar system should be free ... but the powers that be at Embark don't want it to be free .. ( even if it had sponsorship to cover the full cost which would be a very real possibility . ) .. except for a few weeks a year ..

[TheTravellers]

What Steve is referencing is each stop should have the option to take a streetcar in either direction. Instead, if you jump on the streetcar in Auto Alley, you have to ride the streetcar through Midtown and Downtown just to get to Bricktown which might take 30-45 minutes. So what might be a 5 minutes ride to get somewhere is a 40 minute ride to get back. A very impractical model. It's faster and more efficient to walk....

Or you could walk 2 blocks over and catch the streetcar going the way you need it to go and have it be a 5 minute ride.

https://okcstreetcar.com/ride-guide/route-map/

[BoulderSooner]

Or you could walk 2 blocks over and catch the streetcar going the way you need it to go and have it be a 5 minute ride.

https://okcstreetcar.com/ride-guide/route-map/

very much this

except for much of the route it is only a 1 block walk ..

[Just the facts]

1 block in OKC is over 600' and then you might still have to walk another block or two to get to a stop. That could be 1800 feet. Then wait 15 minutes when you get there. Faster and as closer just to walk to your destination in most cases.

[Plutonic Panda]

1 block in OKC is over 600' and then you might still have to walk another block or two to get to a stop. That could be 1800 feet. Then wait 15 minutes when you get there. Faster and as closer just to walk to your destination in most cases.

Yeah the streetcar is useless. I stopped riding when a knife was pulled on me and the driver couldn’t care less.

[Just the facts]

I lived at Lift on a couple of occasions and it was pretty convenient from there but if I lived along the midpoint of the route I would probably never use it.

Anyhow - everyone who had a part in how this route was put together was made well aware of how it was going to struggle. No excuses.

[Plutonic Panda]

It’s just too slow. They could close a couple streets to cars in DTOKC and make them transit only with bikes and that could speed up the train in some sections. The section along Broadway should be closed to cars with right turns banned to the east and the streetcar could be separated by barriers which could increase speeds.

[TheTravellers]

1 block in OKC is over 600' and then you might still have to walk another block or two to get to a stop. That could be 1800 feet. Then wait 15 minutes when you get there. Faster and as closer just to walk to your destination in most cases.

I agree, I was just pointing the falsity of the OP's statement that you must ride the whole loop. It's slow, wait times are too long, and the tracking isn't ideal, wish we wouldn't've screwed it up like this the first time out.

[dankrutka]

the system was built with expansion in mind ... but the biggest single issue with it is the IT IS NOT FREE like it should be ..

It would be better if free, but that is not the biggest problem. The route is by far a much bigger problem that means it will likely never be useful as transportation. If you just start walking you can beat the streetcar in most instances. Catering to political interests on the route doomed it. Solutions like speeding up the route are just lipstick on a pig.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^^
As a regular user and a daily viewer, I believe the route issue could be largely solved with the addition of three blocks of track, all on Robinson:

• Addition of a cut-off between 11th and 10th
• Placing a cut-off between Sheridan and Reno (2 blocks…it’s a super block)

This would allow three independent loops with return stops almost always within a block of each other; the existing “Bricktown” loop, a N-S loop essentially split between Robinson and Broadway (though it would still travel west of MBG and go up Hudson for a bit), and a Midtown circulator loop. You would have to transfer between them to go the length of the route, but times would be far more reliable and would increase rider confidence. That said, you could also simultaneously run a full-route train for those who have time to spare and who don’t want to hop.

While we’re at it I’d also like to see a few do-overs related to curbside parking issues, for instance shifting about 100’ of track further away from curb immediately east of Melting Pot in Bricktown, which is needlessly snug to curb and which causes regular full-route delays when suburban and rural visitors park over the white line.

[jccouger]

It's the canal water taxi but on a rail.

I'm sure its useful to a very few niche users but it's really just a gimmick that adds almost no value to anything. If anything its a negative because it creates more car traffic because people are afraid to drive in car lanes that the track is laid on.

[baralheia]

Or you could walk 2 blocks over and catch the streetcar going the way you need it to go and have it be a 5 minute ride.

https://okcstreetcar.com/ride-guide/route-map/

That does assume you're able-bodied. This is a no-go for most with mobility issues.

Even for those who are able-bodied though, that 2 block walk is brutal in the summer heat, or when it's raining/snowing/etc.

[Anonymous.]

I have posted about my issues and solutions in this thread multiple times. But in response to people saying it is a gimmick or novelty "ride".

I live in DD and work in the CBD. Although I walk to work, I am what you would consider a heavy user of the streetcar and I use it as if it is free. I definitely get value out of the current setup. But I agree it could be way better.

[Ginkasa]

I use it as if it is free.

I got asked for my tickets for the first (and only so far) time last week. I don't use it super regularly, but we've been on it several times when we've wanted to explore a couple of different areas.

[Anonymous.]

Really? That is wild. I have tokens purchased in the app from years ago that I have never had to activate. Guessing there was a fare checker on the train? What was most people's reaction when asked for proof of fare?

[Ginkasa]

Really? That is wild. I have tokens purchased in the app from years ago that I have never had to activate. Guessing there was a fare checker on the train? What was most people's reaction when asked for proof of fare?

So I think it was just us? The streetcar was pulling up to the stop as we were crossing the street so we had to run to hop on it before it left. That might have looked suspicious since we hadn't stopped at the ticket machine. Fortunately, I had a couple of tickets ready to redeem on the app if needed (thanks to a suggestion by, I think, you). He seemed surprised I had it.

[Just the facts]

I have only been asked one time for a ticket but I buy a ticket every time because I want my trip counted in the usage.

[Anonymous.]

I think usage numbers are counted via sensing the people passing through the doors.

I want to see passengers versus fares purchased. I would bet the fare purchasing is at an all time low right now. There is also no way to tell if a passenger going in and out purchased a multi-trip pass (day, month, year) pass. So that data probably isn't that useful now that I type it out.

[HangryHippo]

What happened to the poster that was heavily involved in the route design? I’d be curious in his thoughts on the route now. Wasn’t it Urban Pioneer or something like that? To me, one of the things I don’t get (aside from the pointless route) is not running it down the middle of Broadway (and other streets like in Salt Lake City). I also can’t believe we haven’t connected OU Health to downtown via the streetcar.

[Laramie]

Again, give something back to those who supported the MAPS 3 $777 million initiative that funded the streetcar--make it FREE for a two year period and study the results.

We aren't collecting enough in fees to justify having streetcars with less than 5 riders per streetcar circulating around in our city. If you want to see the modern streetcar transit expanded (routes), lets get some hips in those seats.

[Just the facts]

What happened to the poster that was heavily involved in the route design? I’d be curious in his thoughts on the route now. Wasn’t it Urban Pioneer or something like that? To me, one of the things I don’t get (aside from the pointless route) is not running it down the middle of Broadway (and other streets like in Salt Lake City). I also can’t believe we haven’t connected OU Health to downtown via the streetcar.

At the time I suggested every single committee member, consultant, elected official, and civic leader that approved this route have their name etched in stone on a monument so no one would forget who was involved.

[Just the facts]

Again, give something back to those who supported the MAPS 3 $777 million initiative that funded the streetcar--make it FREE for a two year period and study the results.

We aren't collecting enough in fees to justify having streetcars with less than 5 riders per streetcar circulating around in our city. If you want to see the modern streetcar transit expanded (routes), lets get some hips in those seats.

100% yes. It probably costs more to collect the fare then they collect in fare. I would be happy keeping the $1 fare but giving family passes to anyone that has a water bill with an OKC address.

Next step would be to start eliminating the couplet design in phases by adding more track along existing corridors.

[catch22]

What happened to the poster that was heavily involved in the route design? I’d be curious in his thoughts on the route now. Wasn’t it Urban Pioneer or something like that? To me, one of the things I don’t get (aside from the pointless route) is not running it down the middle of Broadway (and other streets like in Salt Lake City). I also can’t believe we haven’t connected OU Health to downtown via the streetcar.

All in my opinion...

Anyone who watched the process closely and went to meetings would know that the process quickly got affected by political influences on the outside consulting firm. The closer it came to writing checks and laying tracks the more power seemingly was taken from the MAPS committee (all citizen volunteers) and given to the consultancy firm. The consultants offered 3 routes and the committee was only given the power to select the best route from those 3. All options were bad in my opinion. They didn't have much of a choice as 2 options were complete losers, and the "Zeta" route was the least bad and at least offered some future flexibility to fix mistakes. I won't speak for the subcommittee members but as someone who was relatively close to several of them at the time, my off-the-record impression would be they were unhappy with the proposals from the consultant and didn't have the power to sway it any further. It's been probably 10 years now, but it felt like they were caught off guard by the proposals and not given much of an opportunity to address concerns. It felt like it was a "here are your options, tell us next month which one you decide on" type thing. I personally feel that the consultancy firm did not actually address the subcommittee's desires, and instead went for a route that would connect as many landmarks as possible within the budget, so as to appease the Chamber of Commerce. They viewed it as a landmark connector, and not a transit system. There were many outside, behind-the-scenes influences such as large corporations, political opponents, and civic leaders. All of those shaped the system that was ultimately presented to the subcommittee.

Early on it felt like they were trying to do a spine L system. Reno or Sheridan from Bricktown connecting to a double track spine on Broadway thru AA with a phase 2 of getting to 23rd street. There were hopes that OUHSC area would get federal funding for a branch line up Oklahoma Ave thru DD or on 6th across the highway. Clearly what was built didn't reflect the original intentions or desires of the subcommittee members, in my opinion. They sought a Phase 1 which would be easily expanded north to 23rd, south on shields, and east and west on reno. After the consultant was swayed by every interested party that L spine turned into a big Figure 8 of connecting the dots.

[Just the facts]

All that might be true but the committee members that were here on OKCTalk argued for the couplet layout...vigorously. If there was any opposition to the consultants or Larry Nichols it sure wasn't made public

[Teo9969]

Not enough of you are talking about the Fixed Guideway study along with the OkGo plan that came out a few years after the MAPS vote. If that overall vision is tossed, then the Streetcar's value will never make sense. Not enough money existed in the MAPs budget to install the Streetcar and it provide much value as a transit vehicle largely because OKC downtown has too many pockets and not enough concentration along any given route. Couple that with OKC's general unwillingness to impede automobile transit, and there's no way this thing is set up for success.

If you run the street car to Capitol Hill and the Classes Curve/CHK area, the current route all of the sudden makes a ton of sense.

That this only made sense as a starter for a bigger syatem was talked about ad nauseam in this thread a decade ago before routes were even presented.