Streetcar

[dankrutka]

The route sucks. For me, that’s been the biggest issue and why I can’t use it, despite really wanting to regularly.

The route sucks and, based on prior experiences, I don't trust the times. Walking is faster in most cases, even if you're right on the route and it goes the right direction. It's just really poorly designed... as was pointed out when it was happening.

[Mississippi Blues]

Okc and the metro could spend 1 billion on transit tomorrow and driving a car would still be faster for 99% of travel This would continue to be used.

The only places in this country where transit “works” for those with the option of car travel are places where it is time/money competitive as an option. Okc won’t be in that that place in my lifetime and maybe not in my children’s lifetime.

This won’t change in this city until this is massive population change and or land become much much more valuable

I’m not sure if you’re trying to disagree with me, if you’re just trying to argue for the sake of being contrarian, or if I’m misunderstanding your tone because we’re largely saying the same thing, you’re just emphasizing the now whereas I’m talking about years and decades ahead. I’ve acknowledged that it’s not going to change soon and that the city has spent years neglecting these systems in favor of spending the majority of funding on building our city around convenience of car travel. In city’s like Oklahoma City, cars are dominant because everything has been built for them to be the most convenient form of transport. I don’t think it’s even that they’re faster like you emphasize, but there’s just not an alternative to readily traversing the city in even a comparable amount of time. Also, parking here is very simple. As the city builds more and more and those spots no longer exist or exist in much smaller numbers, that’s another area where car might be faster, but it’s going to be less convenient than a tram or commuter rail dropping you off in the middle of the city.

Still, that doesn’t change overnight. Forget 1 billion, we could spend 1 trillion on transportation systems tomorrow, everyone would still drive a car because that is how it has been designed for years and how our culture has been taught to think about it for the last 60-70 years now and no amount of money is going to change that today, tomorrow, next month, next year, or next decade. It’s something that will happen over time as the systems hopefully improve/expand and become more convenient than what they are today, not something we just throw a bunch of money at and expect results tomorrow. Throwing tons of money trying to fix a problem that has existed for generations without addressing the actual issues or solving the actual problems is going to be a waste no matter what subject we’re talking about.

[Mississippi Blues]

The route sucks and, based on prior experiences, I don't trust the times. Walking is faster in most cases, even if you're right on the route and it goes the right direction. It's just really poorly designed... as was pointed out when it was happening.

This is my exact conclusion when it comes to taking it. The times that I do take it, I do it just for the ride. Otherwise, I can walk to wherever and be there much faster.

[dankrutka]

I also want to add that I don't own a car and take public transportation regularly, including trains/rail in DFW, Amtrak, etc. I don't expect rail/streetcar to be as fast as cars in many cases, but it has to be predictable and a reasonable form of transportation. If I moved to OKC, I would rely on public transportation. There are a lot of streetcars in a lot of cities that I would take regularly. OKC's streetcar is not one of them. I've tried. It just doesn't work.

[BoulderSooner]

The OKC streetcar IMO was a good idea--most cities with successful ridership operations like Kansas City free and Omaha will be free.

Oklahoma City's streetcar (Twice the miles of KC) has room to experiment with no fares--which has been done however it's confusing.

MAKE IT TOTALLY FREE since it's operating with few passengers anyway--give something back to the citizens.

Oklahoma City ($135 million - 4.86-miles - 2018)


Kansas City ($102 million - 2.2 miles - 2014) - The KC Streetcar is free to ride, which means there is no fare to ride on the streetcar as it travels the 2 miles through the heart of downtown.


Omaha (proposed $360 million - 3 miles - 2026) Citizens will be asked to approve $360 million bond to finance the project. Omaha streetcar will be free.


2020 Demographics:

Kansas City - 2.2 million/508,394
Oklahoma City - 1.4 million/687,725
Omaha - 1.0 million/487,300

the OKC streetcar should 100% be free ... unfortuntatually the powers that be in transit in OKC don't want it to be free .. (except for a small amount of seasonable promotions (even if the entire system was sponsored to be free they would decline)

[therhett17]

It's pretty much free now anyway, anytime we've ridden it over the past year, not a single soul has asked for proof of fare

[Anonymous.]

It's pretty much free now anyway, anytime we've ridden it over the past year, not a single soul has asked for proof of fare

Yes, but the barrier is still there for new riders. Just picture yourself as brand new to the concept and seeing the ticket kiosk and you would automatically assume the fare is required, which it technically is.

You are correct though, the seasoned riders know that you essentially don't need a fare to ride.

[Rover]

Yes, but the barrier is still there for new riders. Just picture yourself as brand new to the concept and seeing the ticket kiosk and you would automatically assume the fare is required, which it technically is.

You are correct though, the seasoned riders know that you essentially don't need a fare to ride.

So there is no honor supporting the honor system?

[kukblue1]

I have been asked once to show a fare.

[Just the facts]

The OKC Streetcar was an uphill battle from the beginning. From an unqualified Citizen Oversight Board to Larry Nichols trying to claim that the streetcars would cause the Colcord to collapse. Honestly, it is a thousand wonders it got built at all. Someone could write a book about all the mistakes made, and still being made, and sadly it was all foretold by a number of people on this site in real-time as it was happening.

[BoulderSooner]

T From an unqualified Citizen Oversight Board .

in what way ??

[David]

Now there's a name and account I have not seen in a very long time.

[Just the facts]

in what way ??

If memory serves, none of the Transit Subcommittee had any Transit, or even general Urban Planning experience which limited their ability to question or challenge recommendations from the consultants. They just said, "That is how Portland did it", and everyone said okay.

That is why the OKC system was built as a couplet instead of a linear spine. They didn't even raise the point that Portland blocks are only 200' feet wide and have one-way streets while OKC blocks are 600' and we were transitioning to two-way streets at the time. In short, couplets were a bad idea for OKC, but here we are none the less.

So anyhow, it was all beaten to death years ago so the only discussion of any value is 1) How do you fix it, and 2) Is there any political or civic will to fix it?

[Mott]

It is without a doubt a failed project. A one way loop. Sort of like being at Frontier City. Yes, the KC trolley is 2 miles, buts it’s double track, and linear on it’s route. Who wants to ride around Bricktown, if that’s not where you’re going. Make the two loops separate, and run the trolley in both directions with passing sidings.

[Just the facts]

I don't know if "Failed" is the right word but it certainly could have been better. I think you are on to something with the seperate loop idea. The easiest/cheapest/fastest way to do that is have the downtown loop turn on the existing track on EKG. Second best way would be to add a block of track along Robinson between Sheridan and Reno. That would greatly reduce the headway on the Downtown loop and be competitive with a healthy person just walking it.

[BoulderSooner]

If memory serves, none of the Transit Subcommittee had any Transit, or even general Urban Planning experience which limited their ability to question or challenge recommendations from the consultants. They just said, "That is how Portland did it", and everyone said okay.

That is why the OKC system was built as a couplet instead of a linear spine. They didn't even raise the point that Portland blocks are only 200' feet wide and have one-way streets while OKC blocks are 600' and we were transitioning to two-way streets at the time. In short, couplets were a bad idea for OKC, but here we are none the less.

So anyhow, it was all beaten to death years ago so the only discussion of any value is 1) How do you fix it, and 2) Is there any political or civic will to fix it?

almost none of this is accurate

[Just the facts]

[BoulderSooner]

the OKC system was built how it was because of the political realities of where the system needed to go ... period .. that was not driven by the consultants ..

[Just the facts]

the OKC system was built how it was because of the political realities of where the system needed to go ... period .. that was not driven by the consultants ..

I'll give you this, there certainly were people who had influence over the system that shouldn't have simply because of who they were. The Transit Subcommittee should have told them to stay in their lane.

[Jersey Boss]

JTF, Welcome back and have a happy new year.

[Cocaine]

The biggest issue is that it doesn't go anywhere. Let's say instead it was bult double tracked and it went by OU Medical, The Capitol and the Zoo. People would actually ride because it goes somewhere. Whether it's near housing, jobs, or attractions. There are places that are too far to walk and they could have quicker frequencies. The city built a tourist attraction that looks good not viable public transportation. Even if they did an alternative of that had two lines on going from downtown to the capitol and another to just past midtown.

[Laramie]

OU Medical, The Capitol and the Zoo. This would follow the same routes as the buses.

Welcome back JTF, we miss you.

the OKC system was built how it was because of the political realities of where the system needed to go ... period .. that was not driven by the consultants ..

Got to admit, this makes sense, especially since there doesn't seem to be any more credible explanation.

[kukblue1]

The biggest issue is that it doesn't go anywhere. Let's say instead it was bult double tracked and it went by OU Medical, The Capitol and the Zoo. People would actually ride because it goes somewhere. Whether it's near housing, jobs, or attractions. There are places that are too far to walk and they could have quicker frequencies. The city built a tourist attraction that looks good not viable public transportation. Even if they did an alternative of that had two lines on going from downtown to the capitol and another to just past midtown.

Would be better if it went more places but it goes from midtown to the arena and parks the problem for me and like someone recently pointed out is that it goes all the way around bricktown. If it's going from midtown to the park there is no need for me to ride it all around bricktown. Say your at Fassler hall and want to go to a Thunder game. Why take the Street car that is going to take you 20-25 minutes when you can drive it in 5 minutes. According to maps you can walk it in 24 minutes. A bit of a walk but for some people it's doable. Google maps say 18 minutes by transit to civic center than walking time for a total of 25 minutes. So to me that's part of the problem. It's quicker to walk or drive so what's the point of taking the street car? Even getting on a scooter will be quicker.

Than you always run into the issue, lucky I haven't, is someone blocking the streetcar. Than your stuck on the streetcar.

I know it's a street car and not really made for speed but if it were somewhat quicker it would help..

[Laramie]

^ ^ ^ This is one reason I'm so glad to see JTF back. He taught me more about the Streetcar being a 'Novelty' than a mode of transit.

[GoGators]

The biggest issue is that it doesn't go anywhere. Let's say instead it was bult double tracked and it went by OU Medical, The Capitol and the Zoo. People would actually ride because it goes somewhere. Whether it's near housing, jobs, or attractions. There are places that are too far to walk and they could have quicker frequencies. The city built a tourist attraction that looks good not viable public transportation. Even if they did an alternative of that had two lines on going from downtown to the capitol and another to just past midtown.

People were yelling this from the rooftops from the moment the loop route was proposed. It was never designed to be public transportation, it was designed to be an amusement park ride.