OKC Mayor Race 2014

[Urban Pioneer]

I think it says quite a bit when a publication doesn't have the other candidates views as well for contrast.

[Urban Pioneer]

Further, is there anyone out there who is against placemaking?

Most or at least many, traffic engineers.

[LakeEffect]

Because the article talked about many ideas, not just the use of property taxes. Placemaking, bond issues, neighborhood engagement, small business loans, streetscapes. Is it possible to start a conversation here without it automatically becoming an adversarial debate?

That's certainly not an article - it's an endorsement. Furthermore, this is all stuff that the City is already doing - maybe not the way Ed wants, but it's being done. Placemaking? Our current Mayor has been all over the US already talking about that. Sidewalks? The Mayor pushed for Jeff Speck to be hired to study that downtown. Were Jeff's suggestions implemented - only partially. That's not necessarily a result of the Mayor not backing him - it's City staff not adopting it or being aware of it.

A few thoughts based on my education and experience as a planner and a fan of all things municipal: First, property taxes are not all they're made up to be. This most recent recession, in particular, showed that states (and cities, etc) that rely heavily on them were just as, or even more, vulnerable. My hometown in Michigan lost an incredible amount of tax revenue because property values dropped by up to 50%. And now, even though West Michigan has fared very well in the economic recovery, property tax revenues are still behind, or at least even with, what they were in 2008. Now, could a mix of property tax and sales tax possibly help? Maybe, but that will take years of review, discussion and political wrangling. Getting that past our current Legislature and the Governor would take a lot of work.

Second, the GO Bond Election is hardly in the pocket of developers. I was very involved in the 2007 GO Bond process - I spent quite a few mornings up at 5:00 am working on maps and project lists so that we would have a good package. I never once met with a developer (or their attorneys) to discuss the project lists, and I never recall seeing my boss meet with them either. Do I agree with the final project list? Not entirely, especially road widenings, but that's based on past policy and old engineering-standards and ideas. I don't work at the City anymore, so I can't speak for the current process, but it's only 2013. I wouldn't expect that too much discussion is being had about the 2017 election just yet. It'll come soon, but probably not until mid to late 2014 or even 2015.

[LakeEffect]

Most or at least many, traffic engineers.

I wouldn't couch it on those terms - they are trained to be TRAFFIC engineers. They aren't educated to think about placemaking. Change education style and training of engineers, and you might find a different story. Here's a really good post on the subject: "Confessions of a Recovering Engineer" Strong Towns - Strong Towns Blog

[Urban Pioneer]

And for the nonce. the GO Bond issue is estimated to occur in 2019 with the possibility of another MAPS in 2017.

I think that would be around 1.6 billion or more combined. So 12 - 15 years of city policy implementation.

Its a big deal!

[LakeEffect]

And for the nonce. the GO Bond issue is estimated to occur in 2019 with the possibility of another MAPS in 2017.

I think that would be around 1.6 billion or more combined. So 12 - 15 years of city policy implementation.

Its a big deal!

2019? What's pushing it back - needing to do Maps first?

[Urban Pioneer]

I wouldn't couch it on those terms - they are trained to be TRAFFIC engineers. They aren't educated to think about placemaking. Change education style and training of engineers, and you might find a different story. Here's a really good post on the subject: "Confessions of a Recovering Engineer" Strong Towns - Strong Towns Blog

True, but they are THE reoccurring virtually insurmountable local obstacle. But your sentiments are exactly why I added the "Most or at least many" comment. Having worked on the OKC Boulevard fiasco, Western Ave streetscape, P180 streetcar integration, and EK Gaylord; I can assure you they have been the most difficult staff/department level to deal with.

I had a new generation engineer tell me in all seriousness this week with WIDE EYES of fear, "And do you know what happens if we don't build it (streets and highways) big enough!? DISASTER!"

[Urban Pioneer]

2019? What's pushing it back - needing to do Maps first?

That was an estimate by city finance a few months ago related to the Bond rating, values, and letting. I guess it could change, but that I thought 2017 too and they suggested otherwise.

[LakeEffect]

That was an estimate by city finance a few months ago related to the Bond rating, values, and letting. I guess it could change, but that I thought 2017 too and they suggested otherwise.

Interesting. When it was planned, the 2007 estimated 10 years of sales around $80M a year. However, the recession hit and they weren't able to sell as many bonds the first couple years. That may have been why it needs to push back.

[kevinpate]

Here's a little fun exercise for those with a few minutes of free time this morning.

1. Look up the contact information for your local state rep. and senator.
2. Dial or email or invite for a coffee.
3. Advise him or her that you want a public pledge within the next week (longer than Slane gave the city to respond re MAPs) in support of changing state law to permit local officials to add on to the property taxes of their constituents. Also, to support that any such new property tax will permit local officials to decide how the money will be appropriated, with the legislature having neither access to the funds nor a say in how the funds will be used.
4. Report back on the results.

[Urban Pioneer]

Noting Tim Farley's article in the Gazette today did not reference Shadid's comments just a day or two earlier before Slane made his threats.

Perhaps he already covered it. Interesting timing between those two.

And apparently there is a great deal more going on behind the scenes.

[krisb]

Question: Why would an urban newspaper serving the core of Oklahoma City such as The City Sentinel "endorse" a candidate like Ed Shadid? Maybe I'm not the only crazy one.

[krisb]

Here's a little fun exercise for those with a few minutes of free time this morning.

1. Look up the contact information for your local state rep. and senator.
2. Dial or email or invite for a coffee.
3. Advise him or her that you want a public pledge within the next week (longer than Slane gave the city to respond re MAPs) in support of changing state law to permit local officials to add on to the property taxes of their constituents. Also, to support that any such new property tax will permit local officials to decide how the money will be appropriated, with the legislature having neither access to the funds nor a say in how the funds will be used.
4. Report back on the results.

Looks like 49 other states have found a way to make it work.

[Bellaboo]

Question: Why would an urban newspaper serving the core of Oklahoma City such as The City Sentinel "endorse" a candidate like Ed Shadid? Maybe I'm not the only crazy one.

You're not the only crazy one out there.....there's a handful..LOL

[Bellaboo]

Back to the Mayoral race, I heard Mick say this morning on the news that he went to 4 different block parties last night......

[betts]

Question: Why would an urban newspaper serving the core of Oklahoma City such as The City Sentinel "endorse" a candidate like Ed Shadid? Maybe I'm not the only crazy one.

Who makes the editorial decisions for the City Sentinel? Who reads it? There might only be two of you. I'm joking, but the City Sentinel endorsement is even less meaningful than the Friday newspaper's endorsement of Mick Cornett.

[SoonerDave]

Looks like 49 other states have found a way to make it work.

My mom stopped letting me get away with "Everyone ELSE is doing it" as an excuse a looooooong time ago....

[betts]

Looks like 49 other states have found a way to make it work.

It's not a totally crazy idea, but he needs to show us that he can make it happen. What is his strategy? What assurances does he have that it's feasible? And again, higher taxes or what gets cut? You can't just throw proposals like that out there and assume everyone will bow to your wishes. Politically, in this state, Ed is a nobody. He's never held another public office. He has no party with significant numbers in government here. He's broken more political bridges than he's built, as far as I can see. Sometimes you have to take a candidates ability to accomplish his goals into account. A candidate with no political capital can say anything they want, but how are they going to accomplish their goals and fulfill their promises?

[Urban Pioneer]

I didn't read it as an endorsement. I read it as an unbalanced article without contrast. It was as if the campaign wrote it and handed it off. Not saying that happened, but thats how it reads to me.

And people are right about Mayor Cornett bringing Jeff Speck here and dramatically crafting and implementing P180 as our biggest place making and walkability project of all time over the largest areas. That, despite it's flaws.

Ed is a newcomer to these ideas and hasn't personally successfully implemented any of them.

Its really funny to me that Mayor Cornett already "owns" these issues Ed is trying to build a case on. Thats a big reason as to why I told him last year that he needed to fulfill a full first term as Ward 2 Councilman to have any reasonable legitimacy as a mayoral candidate.

[LakeEffect]

I didn't read it as an endorsement. I read it as an unbalanced article without contrast. It was as if the campaign wrote it and handed it off. Not saying that happened, but thats how it reads to me.

I was being facetious. I intended to infer that the "article" was so un-balanced that it read as a pro-candidate piece, essentially an endorsement. This isn't the first one that the City Sentinel has published like this, either.

[Urban Pioneer]

I was actually responding to Bett's reference to it being an endorsement. But your facetiousness is noted.

[Larry OKC]

Larry, you have been so against MAPS and the way it was handled, how would you have held the vote? ... Help me understand your thought process.

The 1st option would be the original MAPS ballot style (illegal logrolling & listing of unrelated projects...popular with unpopular to get the unpopular to pass...i.e., the Convention Center). The only thing MAPS 3 accomplished was removing the projects from the Ballot/Ordinance. it did nothing to solve the logrolling aspect IMO

The 2nd option would be the correct way to do it as you described. Each project listed as a separate proposition (like we did the 2007 G.O. Bond). The City's legal guy who wrote the Ballot admitted this would have been the best way to do it when grilled by Councilman Shadid, but stated that the Mayor/Council made a "policy" decision.

As I have said many times, I wasn't against the MAPS 3 projects, think I would have voted for all of them, even the unpopular Convention Center. However, I could not support the way they went about doing it (they had said they were going to do it the option 2 way). So I voted No, and will do so every time they do so.

There were other obstacles to getting my Yes vote even if the ballot had been constructed correctly...mainly the City's dismal track record with getting anything built:
1) on time
2) as promised
3) on budget.

They didn't do it with MAPS, MAPS 4 Kids, and with the Arena improvements they only met 1 out of 3

[soonerguru]

Because the article talked about many ideas, not just the use of property taxes. Placemaking, bond issues, neighborhood engagement, small business loans, streetscapes. Is it possible to start a conversation here without it automatically becoming an adversarial debate?

With Ed, there's always a conversation and never a plan. I went along with it for a year until I realized he just likes to start fires. No plan, no leadership, no strategy. No thanks, Ed.

[betts]

Have you ever built a house Larry? I've built three and the longest time from concept to completion was 2.5 years. Not one of them was finished in the time frame outlined. Not one of them was on budget. As promised relates to #3. If the price of one significant thing changes, your budget is shot before you begin. For me one time it was forest fires in Canada. Tornados, hurricanes, hail, the price of oil and myriad things we never think about and usually cannot plan for can dramatically affect the budget, even in as little as 2.5 years. Now. I'm not saying the city has a perfect track record on spending our money as wisely as possible. I've seen our subcommittee meet pushback when we've tried to coordinate things to save time and money. But when we vote no, they don't come back and say "OK, we promise to do this on time and on budget if you vote again." We get nothing. I'd rather have imperfect than nothing, personally. That's why I voted "yes".

[Bellaboo]

Question: Why would an urban newspaper serving the core of Oklahoma City such as The City Sentinel "endorse" a candidate like Ed Shadid? Maybe I'm not the only crazy one.

krisb - I see where you are coming from now - if you read into something that you think is there, you start to believe it.

I just picked up 'The City Sentinel'...... i read the article - It is only a press release conveyed by the reporter - it is NOT an endorsement for Ed by the City Sentinel -.....they did not endorse Ed as you want to believe.

You have lost all credibility with me, amongst others I'm sure. krisb, I think you've been brainwashed ! RUN !!! LOL And the 49 states quotes, you are quoting Ed........ In Texas, property taxes are triple Oklahoma....I don't want that.......Ed is saying what he wants you to hear to get elected. He has no record as a mayor, and a little bit tainted record as a councilman.

Mick is a proven commodity, not so much for Ed.

What Ed has no clue about - he says that a sales tax is a tax on the poor...... not so much so, if they don't have much money to spend, they're not getting taxed...bottom line.