State Fairgrounds

[HOT ROD]

My feelings about the icons has changed lately. I've said before that I was involved in electrical work at the time and knew the condition of the Space Needle, Monorail and Grandstands. All three needed major work that would have been extremely expensive. But now I think we, the public, the bill payers, should have had input as to whether we wanted to spend the money to save the icons. And anything can be saved if you spend the money. The race track I've always felt stronger about because I spent almost every Friday night and Fair there from the mid 60s to the last race night either watching, working for the track or driving. And the cities reason for closing it was electrical and ADA problems. While it needed a complete electrical redo we had the ability to do most of the work in house. And the ADA problem was access to the upper level. An external elevator, something similar to the food court elevator at Quail Springs, could have easily been done.
But. As much as I loved the track the last 10 to 15 years of operation the car counts were way down. They changed classes of cars a few times to try and attract more cars. And attendance was way down. For us die hard race fans the death of the track was devastating but to the general public I don't think many really cared.

Couldn't agree more and honestly that's what MAPS IS - yet was not made available for our historical icons.

I agree that we probably wouldn't have been able to maintain the icons in their original condition but what about retrofit or even replacement? Seattle's space needle is older than ANY of those icons (as is the Seattle Monorail - both originals) yet they have been retrofitted time and time again, and modernized (esp the Space Needle). We'd NEVER tear it down, even though it is older than F and costs a fortune to maintain.

OKC should have done the same with it's fair park icons; perhaps the grandstand didn't need to be torn down but it's seats, concourses, and amenities upgraded. perhaps the monorail could have been retrofitted and maybe it's line extended to cover the entire fair park with more stops. perhaps the overhead tram didn't need to be removed, it could easily make $$ now that OKC has a better skyline. and the space needle - we have much better technology where it could have been replaced/upgraded and still provide that outwardly experience beyond just the fair days. ...

That's what I'm talking about. We still could have built the new arena and Bennett Center and even the new barns, but kept what we had and if so - likely would have THE best fair park in the nation. Now, we don't even have the best in the state. ...

[Laramie]

Memories

History Of Oklahoma's Space Tower



https://www.news9.com/story/5e34834b...as-space-tower

[HOT ROD]

right?

What if the space needle were rebuilt (since it was old tech). What if a new space needle was open daily instead of just for the fair? What if the fairgrounds allowed carnivals to set up more than just during September? What if the monorail shown, was retrofitted with current tech (Japan is the leader) and the rails extended with new stations built on other key stops of the fairgrounds - and this being open more than just the fair days?

This is thinking out of the box (IMO) yet retaining your history. We could have done that AND still built what we currently have - and have a HUGE fairground full of amenities and attractions that you can't tell me wouldn't be a stronger money maker than today. This is why I am quite bitter with the State Fair always lining up for MAPS handouts when they should have come to save those icons first - then I'd have no problem with whatever master plan because it would be a true destination and not something that probably would be better purposed in OKC's Western Area - Stockyard's City. ...

[Bill Robertson]

right?

What if the space needle were rebuilt (since it was old tech). What if a new space needle was open daily instead of just for the fair? What if the fairgrounds allowed carnivals to set up more than just during September? What if the monorail shown, was retrofitted with current tech (Japan is the leader) and the rails extended with new stations built on other key stops of the fairgrounds - and this being open more than just the fair days?

This is thinking out of the box (IMO) yet retaining your history. We could have done that AND still built what we currently have - and have a HUGE fairground full of amenities and attractions that you can't tell me wouldn't be a stronger money maker than today. This is why I am quite bitter with the State Fair always lining up for MAPS handouts when they should have come to save those icons first - then I'd have no problem with whatever master plan because it would be a true destination and not something that probably would be better purposed in OKC's Western Area - Stockyard's City. ...

The structure of the Space Needle was fine as far as I know. The problem was all the power and electronic controls were underground in a "vault" next to the needle. Whoever designed that should have never had a license or certification as an engineer. Those systems could have been redesigned/moved and the car updated. For a long time I argued that it wasn't worth the money it would cost. I'm still not 100% convinced but we the people should have been involved in the decision by vote. Then if it got voted down we would be to blame instead of some secretive Fair Board. And in the grand scheme of MAPS projects saving all three Fairgrounds icons would have been not so huge compared to many of the other MAPS projects.

[Dob Hooligan]

The State Fair is just not popular with the general population in the manner it was years ago. My business moved to the State Fair Park area during the last weekend of the 1982 State Fair of Oklahoma. At that time, traffic in the area was legitimately heavy from 11AM to 9PM for 14 of the 17 days it ran. Attendance has declined since the late 1990s IMO. The Fair now runs for 9 or 10 days and the only busy days are both Saturdays and the first Sunday. School Day for OKC Public Schools is the still the busiest weekday.

The Stock Car races were dwindling at much the same rate, except they ran many weeks of the year. In the mid 1980s part of my buildings were rented out by a gent who was a hobbyist car owner/tuner. He had a professional driver who came down from Wichita to drive his alcohol powered, fuel injected sprint car at State Fair Speedway. He was able to support the operating expenses from his winnings. Even though buying the car and trailer were mostly a sunk cost, he still could justify it in his mind. There is almost zero money to be made in hobbyist Stock Car racing today.

I have zero compassion for the people who complained about the noise from the Speedway. Virtually all of them moved in AFTER the Speedway was operating and they should have gotten their discount when they bought their property. Which they did, but they wanted to complain how the noise hurt their property values and Quality of Life.

The Speedway was old, ugly and run down. There is no argument about that from my end....and I kinda gotta admit it is better around here now that it is gone......

The Monorail was a toy from the mid 1960s and it was not built to be long lasting or high quality and functional. It was always a circular ride. I rode in the mid 1990s with my sons (who were under age 12). It was hot, bumpy and had yellowed plastic windows in many cars. My sons did not get the Disneyland feeling and never asked to ride it again.

I miss the Space Needle when it was lit up at night, as a land mark and the sound it put off when high winds were in the area. The first few times hearing it people thought it was a sign of the Apocalypse. Then we kinda took comfort in it. It also had become grungy and bumpy toward the end of it's working life and the fear of getting stuck at the top (or even worse, falling to our death from some kinda broken cable) was pretty strong.

I don't really miss the old Fairgrounds, and the trains, jets and other stuff sitting around.

[Bill Robertson]

The State Fair is just not popular with the general population in the manner it was years ago. My business moved to the State Fair Park area during the last weekend of the 1982 State Fair of Oklahoma. At that time, traffic in the area was legitimately heavy from 11AM to 9PM for 14 of the 17 days it ran. Attendance has declined since the late 1990s IMO. The Fair now runs for 9 or 10 days and the only busy days are both Saturdays and the first Sunday. School Day for OKC Public Schools is the still the busiest weekday.

The Stock Car races were dwindling at much the same rate, except they ran many weeks of the year. In the mid 1980s part of my buildings were rented out by a gent who was a hobbyist car owner/tuner. He had a professional driver who came down from Wichita to drive his alcohol powered, fuel injected sprint car at State Fair Speedway. He was able to support the operating expenses from his winnings. Even though buying the car and trailer were mostly a sunk cost, he still could justify it in his mind. There is almost zero money to be made in hobbyist Stock Car racing today.

I have zero compassion for the people who complained about the noise from the Speedway. Virtually all of them moved in AFTER the Speedway was operating and they should have gotten their discount when they bought their property. Which they did, but they wanted to complain how the noise hurt their property values and Quality of Life.

The Speedway was old, ugly and run down. There is no argument about that from my end....and I kinda gotta admit it is better around here now that it is gone......

The Monorail was a toy from the mid 1960s and it was not built to be long lasting or high quality and functional. It was always a circular ride. I rode in the mid 1990s with my sons (who were under age 12). It was hot, bumpy and had yellowed plastic windows in many cars. My sons did not get the Disneyland feeling and never asked to ride it again.

I miss the Space Needle when it was lit up at night, as a land mark and the sound it put off when high winds were in the area. The first few times hearing it people thought it was a sign of the Apocalypse. Then we kinda took comfort in it. It also had become grungy and bumpy toward the end of it's working life and the fear of getting stuck at the top (or even worse, falling to our death from some kinda broken cable) was pretty strong.

I don't really miss the old Fairgrounds, and the trains, jets and other stuff sitting around.

Your points are my reasons for not being 100% convinced.
BTW. Was the driver from Wichita Mike Peters by chance? If so he couldn't have done better. Mike was an AMAZING driver. I learned almost everything I know about driving dirt track from watching or talking to Mike. But on a one on one ten lap race on the old FG half mile he might lap me twice! And he was personable, not bad looking, etc. which helped with fan following.

[Miracle121]

It's about time that someone from the fairgrounds board or mayor Holt's office respond to this forum. Let's move the new arena to the stockyards so they will be near the horses. The fairgrounds should be for the benefit of the citizens of Oklahoma, not just the horse business.

[Laramie]

It's about time that someone from the fairgrounds board or mayor Holt's office respond to this forum. Let's move the new arena to the stockyards so they will be near the horses. The fairgrounds should be for the benefit of the citizens of Oklahoma, not just the horse business.

This would be a great idea except for the fact that PARKING would be the biggest obstacle if you were to move the new arena from the Fairgrounds.

I visited the Stockyards area off Exchange Avenue in December 2019 just to pick up an item and there are very few areas to park.

[Dob Hooligan]

Your points are my reasons for not being 100% convinced.
BTW. Was the driver from Wichita Mike Peters by chance? If so he couldn't have done better. Mike was an AMAZING driver. I learned almost everything I know about driving dirt track from watching or talking to Mike. But on a one on one ten lap race on the old FG half mile he might lap me twice! And he was personable, not bad looking, etc. which helped with fan following.

Yes, it was Mike Peters. He would come down about 3 O'clock on Friday afternoons in his late model Monte Carlo SS, talk to Buzz McDonald & the Shazam crew, load up the trailer and off they went to the Speedway.

[Miracle121]

I wasn't serious about building the arena at the stock yards. I was trying to say it needs to be multi purpose for all, not just a building for horse shows. I have nothing against horse shows but it needs to be multi purpose for basketball, ice hockey, concerts, etc. For all people to use and enjoy. It will be paid for with public funds, raised by MAPS sales tax.

[Laramie]

I wasn't serious about building the arena at the stock yards. I was trying to say it needs to be multi purpose for all, not just a building for horse shows. I have nothing against horse shows but it needs to be multi purpose for basketball, ice hockey, concerts, etc. For all people to use and enjoy. It will be paid for with public funds, raised by MAPS sales tax.

Again, if you want something Multipurpose why not combine the funding for the MAPS 4 Stadium & Coliseum to build a mini-dome that could be used as a coliseum and an indoor soccer stadium capable of seating 30,000 that could be sectioned off for events needing less than 5,000. You could attract more events that would increase hotel tax revenues--attract more events and increase revenues for funding and upkeep:

Multipurpose Stadium ($37 million)
Fairgrounds Coliseum ($63 million)

The coliseum would be the new home of major national, state and local events and will continue to attract visitors from around the world who boost the local economy with their spending. MAPS 4 allocates $63 million to the project, to be supplemented by at least $25 million from hotel tax revenues already earmarked for fairgrounds improvements, as well as other resources.

You would have $100 million base to build the multipurpose mini-dome and attract more events like a potential major league soccer franchise (MLS) and/or XFL football franchise with the city upgrading the infrastructure and parking at the 435 acre Fair Park complex.

Such a facility would be booked year round...

[Laramie]

Events like the IFR (International Finals Rode) and the horse shows currently held at SFA could be hosted by OKC instead of the Lazy-E in Guthrie. The new coliseum needs to be built as soon as possible.

An event like the IFR would be a better long-term fit in OKC as opposed to a venue like the Lazy E.

[mugofbeer]

It's unfortunate the city doesn't have the corporate resources or the facility to make a seriously large bid for the National Finals Rodeo. It was held at the new <gag> Globe Life Park (new Rangers baseball stadium) this year due to covid restrictions in Vegas and it seems the NFR is up for rebid. I read Ft. Worth is going to make a bid to get in their new Taj Mahal livestock event arena.

[HOT ROD]

This would be a great idea except for the fact that PARKING would be the biggest obstacle if you were to move the new arena from the Fairgrounds.

I visited the Stockyards area off Exchange Avenue in December 2019 just to pick up an item and there are very few areas to park.

How does Ft Worth deal with this? Isn't their horse show area near/in their Stockyards (which is much more touristy than OKCs)?

Probably too late to really change anything but could be good for prospective on how OKC could have implemented a real horse show showcase in our Stockyards while keeping the fairgrounds historical and multi-purpose. ...

[HOT ROD]

It's unfortunate the city doesn't have the corporate resources or the facility to make a seriously large bid for the National Finals Rodeo. It was held at the new <gag> Globe Life Park (new Rangers baseball stadium) this year due to covid restrictions in Vegas and it seems the NFR is up for rebid. I read Ft. Worth is going to make a bid to get in their new Taj Mahal livestock event arena.

Funny that OKC used to have the NFR at the fairgrounds. ... Not sure who thought removing everything would make OKC more attractive as a destination ....

[BoulderSooner]

How does Ft Worth deal with this? Isn't their horse show area near/in their Stockyards (which is much more touristy than OKCs)?

Probably too late to really change anything but could be good for prospective on how OKC could have implemented a real horse show showcase in our Stockyards while keeping the fairgrounds historical and multi-purpose. ...

dickys arena If that is what you are talking about is 1. not in the stockyards 2. is not really a horse show arena it is ft worths version of the Peake and 3. the ft worth stock yards has tons of parking because it is not a functional stockyard it is just for tourists and the new arena also has tons and tons of parking .

[Bill Robertson]

Funny that OKC used to have the NFR at the fairgrounds. ... Not sure who thought removing everything would make OKC more attractive as a destination ....

I'm pretty sure OKC got outbid for the NFR. It was about $$$$$. Not about being more or less attractive.

[Laramie]

The National Finals Rodeo, the year's premier event to many Oklahomans, will be moving to Las Vegas in 1985 after a 20-year run in Oklahoma City.

The board of directors of the Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association, after meeting for almost 11 straight hours, announced just before midnight, Oklahoma time, that Las Vegas had been awarded a five-year contract to host the National Finals.

"Chief among the reasons for moving the finals was the ability of Las Vegas to fully guarantee the purse for five years," a PRCA spokesman said in a prepared statement.

"The contract includes prize money of $1.79 million next year. The board also thought that the Las Vegas offer gave pro rodeo the chance to receive the national media attention it deserves."--Dean Bailey, The Oklahoman, Published: Thursday, December 13, 1984 12:00 AM

[mugofbeer]

dickys arena If that is what you are talking about is 1. not in the stockyards 2. is not really a horse show arena it is ft worths version of the Peake and 3. the ft worth stock yards has tons of parking because it is not a functional stockyard it is just for tourists and the new arena also has tons and tons of parking .

Dickey's Arena was built to be a multi-purpose arena, one of which was especially for the Forth Woth stock show rodeo.

[mugofbeer]

I'm pretty sure OKC got outbid for the NFR. It was about $$$$$. Not about being more or less attractive.

It was outbid because Vegas wanted a major event between T-giving and Christmas. OKC couldn't compete against casino money. Look up the Dickey's Arena and Ft. Worth. It's trying to live up to, and attract Dallas-type events and has a lot of money behind it.

Edit: This year will mark the 32nd anniversary of the NFR in Las Vegas. The prize money for the participants this year will be $10 million.

[BridgeBurner]

Thought Steve had a pretty good article about the degradation of the fairgrounds into nothing but horse shows today https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news...nd/5917537001/

[borchard]

Serious discussion question: Is the decrease in popularity of the SF BECAUSE of tearing down all the icons, etc... Or were the icons NOT upgraded and torn down BECAUSE of the decrease in popularity? What do people think?

[Mballard85]

Serious discussion question: Is the decrease in popularity of the SF BECAUSE of tearing down all the icons, etc... Or were the icons NOT upgraded and torn down BECAUSE of the decrease in popularity? What do people think?

I think the SF had a vision in mind and they executed it perfectly in the name of popularity. They wanted to be what they have become and that is a venue for equine events, that's just my opinion though.

[Bill Robertson]

I think the SF had a vision in mind and they executed it perfectly in the name of popularity. They wanted to be what they have become and that is a venue for equine events, that's just my opinion though.

I think you're pretty much spot on. The FG is exactly what the people in charge wanted it to become a number of years ago.

[Laramie]

Serious discussion question: Is the decrease in popularity of the SF BECAUSE of tearing down all the icons, etc... Or were the icons NOT upgraded and torn down BECAUSE of the decrease in popularity? What do people think?

Probably a combination of both.

If we had a situation where there was an amusement park operating year round during good weather seasons where they incorporated the Space Tower and Monorail, you would have seen a more vibrant State Fair of Oklahoma. The speedway was too noisy to keep on site. You could hear the stock cars within a 10-12 mile radius.

If Frontier City were to relocate to the Fairgrounds (IMO) they could reap the benefits. This would justify building a new 500' Space Tower and Monorail operating 9 months a year.

IMO, there's still time to do something to make upgrades and have an annual 10 day September Fair (Autumn) and smaller 5 day Fair in April (Spring) with something like an April Fools theme. The Fairgrounds IMO is underutilized for the amount of acreage OKC has available.

OKC wants to keep those Equine events & shows in our community; the economic impact is too great to let them go elsewhere. Guthrie's Lazy E took one of those events. The new 4,500 (hair back) seat coliseum provides just enough room to not feel the emptiness of a 14,000 seat FW Dickies Arena or an 8,500 seat OKC Fairgrounds Arena.

As for the return of Ice Hockey to Oklahoma City, let's see what's on the horizon.