Streetcar

[dankrutka]

As for Portland it’s a beautiful place and without going too much into politics it has its fair share of issues not least of which is it’s urban growth boundaries and mobility problems.

Every city in the U.S. should institute urban growth boundaries. OKC would be a dramatically better city with them. Cities with natural geographic boundaries are evidence how well they work. Curbing sprawl is not only better for cities, it's an important nod towards addressing the ecological catastrophe the world is facing.

[Pete]

Every city in the U.S. should institute urban growth boundaries. OKC would be a dramatically better city with them. Cities with natural geographic boundaries are evidence how well they work. Curbing sprawl is not only better for cities, it's an important nod towards addressing the ecological catastrophe the world is facing.

Keep in mind, OKC's Chamber of Commerce and all its powerful allies openly advocated for the 2 new turnpikes being built in far west and far east OKC.

So, we can talk about this problem all day long but as long as the local power brokers want highways built in cow pastures, it will continue to happen and new development will follow.

There is a lot of lip service given to controlling sprawl but anybody with power and influence is pretty much working actively in the other direction.

[Ross MacLochness]

^^^Short term cash, long term crash

[HangryHippo]

Every city in the U.S. should institute urban growth boundaries. OKC would be a dramatically better city with them. Cities with natural geographic boundaries are evidence how well they work. Curbing sprawl is not only better for cities, it's an important nod towards addressing the ecological catastrophe the world is facing.

Preach!

[HangryHippo]

Keep in mind, OKC's Chamber of Commerce and all its powerful allies openly advocated for the 2 new turnpikes being built in far west and far east OKC.

So, we can talk about this problem all day long but as long as the long power brokers want highways built in cow pastures, it will continue to happen and new development will follow.

There is a lot of lip service given to controlling sprawl but anybody with power and influence is pretty much working actively in the other direction.

Helps to have had a cheap homebuilder running the turnpike authority.

[Plutonic Panda]

Every city in the U.S. should institute urban growth boundaries. OKC would be a dramatically better city with them. Cities with natural geographic boundaries are evidence how well they work. Curbing sprawl is not only better for cities, it's an important nod towards addressing the ecological catastrophe the world is facing.

Except it’s made Portland one of the most expensive cities to live in and arguably causing a lot of the homelessness. Urban growth boundaries are horrible and nothing more than makeshift solutions that don’t work.

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^Short term cash, long term crash

Expansion of the city occurring and infrastructure needing to accommodate it and offer bypasses. EOC part of an eastern bypass for through traffic on the interstate system.

[jedicurt]

yeah, yeah, yeah .......... I hear all the .................. " its a long way off " and " too many problems " ...........but again, I don't think I'd make a multiple hundred million dollar bet against the technology

yep... still going with my statments that its a long way off with articles like this

https://www.fastcompany.com/90374083...edium=webfeeds

EDIT: sorry to bring back up something from May... but seemed relevant to continue as to why streetcar's won't be replaced with AV's anytime soon

[Pete]

[HOT ROD]

looks like Sundays arean't really doing too well.

[Urban Pioneer]

They really should have a specific line referencing when the Devon Tower glass fiasco that happened. That dramatically affected those numbers.

[RedDollar]

yep... still going with my statments that its a long way off with articles like this

https://www.fastcompany.com/90374083...edium=webfeeds

EDIT: sorry to bring back up something from May... but seemed relevant to continue as to why streetcar's won't be replaced with AV's anytime soon

But you can't know , the unknowable ............. and no one knows what transportation will look like 10 yrs from now, much less 20 years. I think Mr Lutz sums that up well in the last paragraph of that story.

I think what we do know, is the transportation sector is in flux, its changing.

And I'm not gonna bet hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer money on something that fluid. Not wise.

[Pete]

They really should have a specific line referencing when the Devon Tower glass fiasco that happened. That dramatically affected those numbers.

And Devon should pay the city for the lost revenue.

[GoGators]

But you can't know , the unknowable ............. and no one knows what transportation will look like 10 yrs from now, much less 20 years. I think Mr Lutz sums that up well in the last paragraph of that story.

I think what we do know, is the transportation sector is in flux, its changing.

And I'm not gonna bet hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer money on something that fluid. Not wise.

Are you willing to bet hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars that freeways will still be necessary in 20 years? We may finally get that flying car by then.

You cant just use the argument on things you don't like.

[RedDollar]

Are you willing to bet hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars that freeways will still be necessary in 20 years? We may finally get that flying car by then.

You cant just use the argument on things you don't like.

Whatever ................

[Anonymous.]

So June is the most comparable month so far to the free-fare time period months. In which June had the Devon glass interruption. That shows a significant uptick in use, it is too bad the Devon glass thing tainted the data.

[BoulderSooner]

So June is the most comparable month so far to the free-fare time period months. In which June had the Devon glass interruption. That shows a significant uptick in use, it is too bad the Devon glass thing tainted the data.

also great that the times keep coming down .. they should be able to get close to 40 when all the signal priority upgrades are installed

[Ross MacLochness]

It really is much faster and so much more convenient now than it was at launch.

[jedicurt]

Whatever ................

insightful response... but the point he is getting at is that you have to continue to build infrastructure. and yes, that infrastructure may eventually become outdated one day, but if i have my choice, i'd rather put my money into diversifying my transportation infrastructure into multiple modes of transit, so that you have the best chance of both keeping up with demand, as well as pushing things in a forward direction, because just the idea that we should spend money on it, because it will someday become obsolete can be applied to anything, and thus isn't a valid argument on any level.

also, what i was trying to get to back in may and also with the article, is that you are right that we don't know what the future will hold... and neither do the companies that are making these claims, because they have been making these type claims since the 1950's... and they are never based on anything actually measured and thought out, they are all just numbers they pull out of thin air... and we should not make financial decisions based upon those number.

[jedicurt]

It really is much faster and so much more convenient now than it was at launch.

i'm guessing i need to try it again. i rode it free, and then in the first week of it being pay. but haven't rode it since. perhaps i need to plan a group streetcar brewery and pub crawl with my friends. lol

[Ross MacLochness]

i'm guessing i need to try it again. i rode it free, and then in the first week of it being pay. but haven't rode it since. perhaps i need to plan a group streetcar brewery and pub crawl with my friends. lol

For sure. It's a much better experience. I think several businesses along the loop still have free ride cards fyi if you want to utilize those.

[RedDollar]

insightful response... but the point he is getting at is that you have to continue to build infrastructure. and yes, that infrastructure may eventually become outdated one day, but if i have my choice, i'd rather put my money into diversifying my transportation infrastructure into multiple modes of transit, so that you have the best chance of both keeping up with demand, as well as pushing things in a forward direction, because just the idea that we should spend money on it, because it will someday become obsolete can be applied to anything, and thus isn't a valid argument on any level.

also, what i was trying to get to back in may and also with the article, is that you are right that we don't know what the future will hold... and neither do the companies that are making these claims, because they have been making these type claims since the 1950's... and they are never based on anything actually measured and thought out, they are all just numbers they pull out of thin air... and we should not make financial decisions based upon those number.

It was a pathetic analogy and I won't waste my time explaining why. I've got a lot of better things to do.

Technology is going to be disruptive to transportation.

Have a good day !

[jedicurt]

It was a pathetic analogy and I won't waste my time explaining why. I've got a lot of better things to do.

Technology is going to be disruptive to transportation.

Have a good day !

great contributions as always... i agree that it will be disruptive... if you use the part of that definition that is innovative or groundbreaking... i have agreed with you... in fact, technology has already been disruptive to transportation... always has been, always will be. i don't disagree with that at all... advancements in technology are constantly improving and changing our current modes of transportation... but have yet to create a new mode since the wright brothers. and i don't see that changing drastically anytime in the near future.

but you have your thoughts, and you aren't going to even listen to anyone elses opinions... much like back in march where i posted a podcast debate about this very subject with experts in the fields discussing both sides to self driving cars and the future of transportation... but you didn't seem interested in someones elses opinion then, and doesn't seem like it now.

we can continue to have an actual discussion and talk about the actual issues and merits and concerns regarding investments in current technologies, as well as making sure we are prepared for what might be coming in the future. i would love to have that conversation, on this thread, as i think it's a significant discussion to have regarding the future of transit in OKC and how or if the streetcar can or should fit into that.

i also agree with what Lutz said in that article i posted in that last paragraph... the days of the automobile as we know it are nearing an end... and we have to be investing now into infrastructure to accommodate that.. doing nothing, as you suggested, just puts us even further behind the curve... so if you don't want to invest 100's of millions of dollars into RTD and streetcar, then what should we spend money on to accommodate potential changes in the transportation market in the near future?

you also have a good day!

[Plutonic Panda]

It was a pathetic analogy and I won't waste my time explaining why. I've got a lot of better things to do.

Technology is going to be disruptive to transportation.

Have a good day !

I’m not agreeing not disagreeing with GoGators but he isn’t all wrong. Though until we can get virtual sky highways for flying cars which I suspect is a minimum of 15 years away we will have flying cars only for the rich or mass transit. I do wish they would study more flying mass transit in major metros like SoCal for regional commuting purposes which I think would be a huge success.

Until then we need to focus on driverless cars which can have speed limits on highways well over 100 MPH and city streets speed limits can increase which will increase capacity allowing more cars an hour to move through. This can warrant lane reductions in some areas and more space for pedestrians. The safety aspect of autonomous cars can’t be overstated. This could be the new industrial revolution. IMO, this is more impactful than flying cars as it is likely to be a reality sooner for the masses. Also factor in freeways can have more lanes by removing shoulders as shoulders won’t be needed for driverless cars since they can communicate with each other and move out of the obstructed lane well before the obstruction.

[FighttheGoodFight]

I think we also have to look at the reality that moving to driver less cars will take quite a long transition. Unless the cars are extremely cheap people are going to continue to buy cheaper cars. In places like Oklahoma with low usage/amount of public transit, a car is a necessity for work.