Streetcar

[Plutonic Panda]

I’m still confused. The proposal is for streetcar to be completely separated from automobiles for most of the alignment. The numbers to the east do not warrant higher capacity trains. BRT would be a step down.

BRT would not be a step down from a hybrid street car.

I do not like the streetcar at all and if it’s expanded I should only be the core area. Having it connected to a metro wide rail system is a mistake.

[catch22]

BRT would not be a step down from a hybrid street car.

I do not like the streetcar at all and if it’s expanded I should only be the core area. Having it connected to a metro wide rail system is a mistake.

Light rail is essentially 2 streetcars coupled together. Outside of the major cities like NY and Chicago, long distance grade separation is not used. Portland with one of the most successful light rail systems in the country has pretty much all at-grade crossings. The arms come down, the train goes through, the arms come back up.

[Plutonic Panda]

Portland’s light rail sucks and if it wasn’t for their horrid traffic that is worse than cities 3 times it’s size it probably wouldn’t be as successful regardless of its nature which also likely boosts higher ridership. I’m aware of what light rail is and I’m also aware that most major US cities like Denver build sh!tty light rail. NY and Chicago mainly use heavy rail.

It’s much more impactful than arms to prevent passing traffic coming up and going down. Trains have to slow down and a matter of end to end travel times being reduced by 5-10 minutes adds up on top of the already con of having to wait for the train.

[David]

I'm not following this line of logic. Our streetcars can easily go 50 - 60mph without modification to the existing vehicle spec. The projected ridership is not so high nor the available alignment so long that it necessitates the heavier and longer Light Rail vehicles that DART or Denver use such as the Siemens or Kinkisharyo trains.

In this case, it is kind of a perfect marriage. There is an existing alignment that goes straight to Midwest City onto Tinker. Basically, the streetcars would be able to go much faster than they can on city streets and operate as a modern Interurban. Later on, if demand were so high or the line broadly expanded, they could switch to a new vehicle type.

Am I correct in remembering that there's an existing money source that can be tapped for the line out to Tinker? Federal funds, maybe? If so, do we have any sort of timeline as to when it might happen?

[BoulderSooner]

BRT would not be a step down from a hybrid street car.

I do not like the streetcar at all and if it’s expanded I should only be the core area. Having it connected to a metro wide rail system is a mistake.

there is no full BRT planned for the OKC metro currently

[Plutonic Panda]

there is no full BRT planned for the OKC metro currently

Are we sure? I don’t know what’s planned for NWE corridor. I suspect you’re right but I wanted to be sure.

[dankrutka]

Portland’s light rail sucks.

I was just in Portland and found their lightrail easy to use and get around. I've been traveling the country (and Canada) quite a bit lately and pretty much every major city has lightrail now.

[OKCbyTRANSFER]

I was just in Portland and found their lightrail easy to use and get around. I've been traveling the country (and Canada) quite a bit lately and pretty much every major city has lightrail now.

Calgary had some pretty nice light rail when I was there a few years ago

[Uptowner]

If I’m listing my #1 streetcar city it’s Amsterdam. The car gets the snub in that town but the bike/walk/scooter/streetcar/microcar infrastructure is incredible.

[GoGators]

If I’m listing my #1 streetcar city it’s Amsterdam. The car gets the snub in that town but the bike/walk/scooter/streetcar/microcar infrastructure is incredible.

Without a doubt Amsterdam’s infrastructure is built how a city should be built. It works flawlessly. If you look at Amsterdam in the 1960s you’ll see a city inundated with traffic, wide lanes and narrow sidewalks similar to every American city then and now. The only difference is they decided to fix it. Massive improvements can be done in any city in the world including here. We just have to decide if we want to be a little tiny bit more like Amsterdam, or a whole lot more like Houston. I’ve been to both and I know which one I would pick.

[catch22]

Portland’s light rail does suck. But nothimg is as laughable as OKC. bezdek lined his pockets on behalf of the manufacturer while the influencers got the route to loop past their businesses. It’s a disaster.

This post is laughable. This bizarre theory belongs on some History Channel conspiracy program at 3am before the MyPillow Infomercial.

[Plutonic Panda]

Without a doubt Amsterdam’s infrastructure is built how a city should be built. It works flawlessly. If you look at Amsterdam in the 1960s you’ll see a city inundated with traffic, wide lanes and narrow sidewalks similar to every American city then and now. The only difference is they decided to fix it. Massive improvements can be done in any city in the world including here. We just have to decide if we want to be a little tiny bit more like Amsterdam, or a whole lot more like Houston. I’ve been to both and I know which one I would pick.

So hopefully you and me can have a cheers to mass transit needing serious investment in the US regardless of my opinion of freeways. Portland streetcar network is a poster child of why US transit in the US is a joke compared to other modern countries and that isn’t due to a conspiracy theory.

PS, just so this isn’t misconstrued this isn’t a shot against any poster here. I agree with Uptowner and I want the best transit for OKC and not something half assed. I love mass transit and want the right kind for OKC. Streetcars and a half assed bus system isn’t that for OKC.

[Plutonic Panda]

I was just in Portland and found their lightrail easy to use and get around. I've been traveling the country (and Canada) quite a bit lately and pretty much every major city has lightrail now.

Good for you but you don’t live there and it doesn’t hold a candle to major mass transit systems around the world. I’m not talking about comparing it a slob of a system like Dallas’s nor many US cities least of all OKC. I would like OKC to have a transit system that works for its people and if its tourist like it than icing on the cake but not geared towards such.

[Plutonic Panda]

[Citation Needed]

https://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=13719

https://www.governing.com/topics/tra...ansit.html?AMP

Portland is a failure in every sense of the word. Homeless at the peak. Disproportionately white population claiming to be for diversity while advocating for counterintuitive policies with nothing but their own f@cking ignorance for excuses. A horrible urban growth policy artificially ensuring high housing costs. A horrid city council that makes sure mayor can’t last more than a single term in. A joke of a transit system that major nearby cities want no part of. Get real man.

[David]

https://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=13719

https://www.governing.com/topics/tra...ansit.html?AMP

Portland is a failure in every sense of the word. Homeless at the peak. Disproportionately white population claiming to be for diversity while advocating for counterintuitive policies with nothing but their own f@cking ignorance for excuses. A horrible urban growth policy artificially ensuring high housing costs. A horrid city council that makes sure mayor can’t last more than a single term in. A joke of a transit system that major nearby cities want no part of. Get real man.

The citation needed bit was about the "bezdek lined his pockets on behalf of the manufacturer" claim, I thought that was obvious since that was the majority of the post I was replying to but maybe I should have been more specific.

[BoulderSooner]

Good for you but you don’t live there and it doesn’t hold a candle to major mass transit systems around the world. I’m not talking about comparing it a slob of a system like Dallas’s nor many US cities least of all OKC. I would like OKC to have a transit system that works for its people and if its tourist like it than icing on the cake but not geared towards such.

OKC as a city was not constructed to make large scale mass transit viable ..

[HangryHippo]

OKC as a city was not constructed to make large scale mass transit viable ..

The hell it wasn't. It worked fine until they ripped out the streetcars and train tracks and let sprawl continue unabated.

[dankrutka]

Good for you but you don’t live there and it doesn’t hold a candle to major mass transit systems around the world. I’m not talking about comparing it a slob of a system like Dallas’s nor many US cities least of all OKC. I would like OKC to have a transit system that works for its people and if its tourist like it than icing on the cake but not geared towards such.

If you're going to say Portlan's light rail is terrible in post after post, how about actually explaining your reasons and what you want? Provide some details and explanation.

[Bullbear]

Ive used Portland light rail several trips and didn't think it was terrible. My bestie lives in Portland and uses it regularly. not sure what makes it terrible either.

[GoGators]

OKC as a city was not constructed to make large scale mass transit viable ..

This is Just ridiculous . You spend 60+ years pouring every dime into widening roads while neglecting everything from buses to sidewalks and then say we aren’t built that way and shrug your shoulders. In 1920 did okc say we can’t be car oriented we aren’t built that way?

[Plutonic Panda]

If you're going to say Portlan's light rail is terrible in post after post, how about actually explaining your reasons and what you want? Provide some details and explanation.

I have links to back my opinions as to why it’s terrible. Like I said with OKC’s proposed transit if it isn’t built to serve as rapid transit and will end up like some half assed system or worse a network of streetcars like Portland’s system then good luck. OKC had a great streetcar network that served its purpose and while subways were being built left and right in many cities OKC’s streetcars sufficed and allowed the city to sprawl out. But new technologies came along not just bicycles and cars being new concepts for travel but innovations in building inter city rail allows for a completely grade separated network reducing conflict points, allowing higher speeds, and making longer trains more feasible.

As for Portland it’s a beautiful place and without going too much into politics it has its fair share of issues not least of which is it’s urban growth boundaries and mobility problems.

[BoulderSooner]

This is Just ridiculous . You spend 60+ years pouring every dime into widening roads while neglecting everything from buses to sidewalks and then say we aren’t built that way and shrug your shoulders. In 1920 did okc say we can’t be car oriented we aren’t built that way?

okc had 90k people in 1920 okc grew with the car not inspite of it OKC as a major city didn't exist in 1920

amsterdam for instance was over 240k in 1750 and had 650k in 1920 it was built before the auto as were most of the european cities as well as the big us east coast cities

[Plutonic Panda]

OKC as a city was not constructed to make large scale mass transit viable ..

That doesn’t mean OKC can’t have successful mass transit lines. If planned and built right they can have success in ridership numbers being critical for those who depend on it and currently have no other convenient options.

[Ross MacLochness]

okc had 90k people in 1920 okc grew with the car not inspite of it OKC as a major city didn't exist in 1920

amsterdam for instance was over 240k in 1750 and had 650k in 1920 it was built before the auto as were most of the european cities as well as the big us east coast cities

Yet despite the population increase, we are only at like 33% the population density in the core area we had in those days. Yes, we had streets that cars could drive on, but most people got around via streetcar. Ask anyone who grew up in that time. Both of my grandmothers, who lived in rural areas, used the streetcars almost exclusively when they visited the city. One of my grandmothers worked at st anthony's at one point and used the streetcar every day. She has told me stories of taking the cars to Norman and to Guthrie.

[Rover]

That doesn’t mean OKC can’t have successful mass transit lines. If planned and built right they can have success in ridership numbers being critical for those who depend on it and currently have no other convenient options.

Just curious if anyone has done a study on the theoretical demand for mass trans in OKC and what that system actually looks like? To be used does access need to be a block away...2...10?