Boathouse Row

[Pete]

If OU raised academic standards and devoted fundraising efforts to endowed professorships instead of fancy buildings with microphones for every student, wood paneled desks, and projectors in every room, it wouldn't need the football team to do well to increase enrollment.

The endowment has been more than tripled in the Boren era -- now close to $1 billion -- and a good chunk of that goes towards more professors and increased salaries.

The school endowment is now one of the largest in the Big XII and is still growing at a healthy rate.


This all accomplished while building almost $1 billion in new facilities.

[Pete]

If OU raised academic standards and devoted fundraising efforts to endowed professorships instead of fancy buildings with microphones for every student, wood paneled desks, and projectors in every room, it wouldn't need the football team to do well to increase enrollment.

The endowment has been more than tripled in the Boren era -- now close to $1 billion -- and a good chunk of that goes towards more professors and increased salaries.

The school endowment is now one of the largest in the Big XII and is still growing at a healthy rate.


This all accomplished while building almost $1 billion in new facilities and dramatically raising academic standards.

[Bellaboo]

'So how much money has the athletic department given to the university in the last 10 years? Give some facts please.'

I'm won't take the time to find this for you or anyone else, but it's well documented. Go over to the 'Sports' threads and you can find it there.

[LandRunOkie]

The endowment has been more than tripled in the Boren era -- now close to $1 billion -- and a good chunk of that goes towards more professors and increased salaries.
The school endowment is now one of the largest in the Big XII and is still growing at a healthy rate.
This all accomplished while building almost $1 billion in new facilities.

Yes, Boren has a done a great job of raising funds. I noticed the associate professors were really good and the adjunct were not very good. He hasn't done nearly enough to increase the quality of instruction in my opinion, mainly through recruiting associate and endowed professors. If he worked on that and raised out of state tuition, he would be the perfect president imo.

'So how much money has the athletic department given to the university in the last 10 years? Give some facts please.'
I'm won't take the time to find this for you or anyone else, but it's well documented. Go over to the 'Sports' threads and you can find it there.

Trust me, I've tried to find it. That's why I'm asking you. They actually use the excuse that they are seperately funded so that they don't have to disclose their financial statements. If you want anyone to believe the AD actually pays the university, post it here. They certainly do a good job of keeping such info a secret.

[BoulderSooner]

Yes, Boren has a done a great job of raising funds. I noticed the associate professors were really good and the adjunct were not very good. He hasn't done nearly enough to increase the quality of instruction in my opinion, mainly through recruiting associate and endowed professors. If he worked on that and raised out of state tuition, he would be the perfect president imo.


Trust me, I've tried to find it. That's why I'm asking you. They actually use the excuse that they are seperately funded so that they don't have to disclose their financial statements. If you want anyone to believe the AD actually pays the university, post it here. They certainly do a good job of keeping such info a secret.

they don't and it is widely reported each and every year

[Pete]

BTW, I researched the hard data and when Boren took over in 1994, OU's endowment was $204 million. As of the end of 2011, the endowment was $1,212 million.

Just in 2011 alone, the number grew by almost 25%. For 2012, it may be very close to $1.5 billion.

[Snowman]

If someone is so financially strapped to be commuting 30+ miles each way, you think they are going to be rowing?
There are well under 1500 students at the OU HSC. There are over 25,000 at the Norman campus. You are suggesting building such an expensive facility for 1500 students + Okc commuters? Doesn't make sense.

While not exclusively, it is mostly for the Varsity Rowing team, how many of the expensive varsity team facilities of any of their sports are used by any of the students other than those on the teams? Another thing is this is somewhat aimed at Title IX being enforced tighter in recent years.

[PhiAlpha]

So you are saying it is going to be always open to the public? If so, why even attach the OU name to it? If not, its not for the community.

If someone is so financially strapped to be commuting 30+ miles each way, you think they are going to be rowing?
There are well under 1500 students at the OU HSC. There are over 25,000 at the Norman campus. You are suggesting building such an expensive facility for 1500 students + Okc commuters? Doesn't make sense.


That is a whole other issue. Why the athletic department gets to use the OU logo without substantial reimbursements to the university is confounding.

A. Don't understand your point...The Chesapeake and devon ocu boathouses are both named for the companies/university that built them and they are often open to the public

B. Who says people living outside of norman and commuting are doing so because they are financially strapped? Several of my friends lived outside of norman because they wanted to live outside of norman, owned houses outside of norman, or worked outside of norman. The cost of driving to norman everyday from OKC is high so it would make more sense for people who are financially strapped to live in Norman.

C. They are building it for the rowing team and anyone else who wants to use it.Using this logic, there are less than 100 people on the football team, I guess there was no point in spending millions of dollars upgrading the football facilities. The Houston Huffman center is used by the 10% of students that work out there, guess that was pointless too. OU shouldn't have built the honors college because only a few of the students use it. I guess they shouldn't have built the soccer stadium, remodeled the field house, remodeled the softball and baseball stadiums, built a gymnastics facility, remodeled lloyd noble, or built the sam noble museum because such a small percentage of students use them. There are 500,000 people in OKC and 500,000 additional people in the metro, guess it didn't make sense to spend $189 million to build and upgrade Chesapeake Arena since only 18,203 will use it at a time.

In response to another of your posts... It is a natural river, it is dammed and creates a perfect channel for rowing. I'm not sure what about that seems "forced," it's actually better than many natural rivers for rowing.

In summary, go troll some where else.

[LandRunOkie]

What I'm saying is, there is a point of diminishing returns on boathouses and we may be approaching it. A university's two main jobs are research and education. UCO and OCU are less prestigious institutions and their decision to build boathouses is somewhat tacky imo. Obviously Cheasapeake and Devon have the right to spend money however they see fit and they've played key roles in developing the river.

[CS_Mike]

So how much money has the athletic department given to the university in the last 10 years? Give some facts please.

It took me about 10 minutes to find the following:
ANNUAL COUNCIL REPORTS

According to that report, the athletic department has contributed $9.2 million over the past eight years in support of academic programs. It also notes that they are the owners and operators of the new athletic/honors housing center, so non-athlete students will be benefiting from the department in that manner as well.

[shawnw]

Went out there tonight to look around. Didn't know the river was dry. Looked pretty strange.

for the canal connection construction

[BrettM2]

What I'm saying is, there is a point of diminishing returns on boathouses and we may be approaching it. A university's two main jobs are research and education. UCO and OCU are less prestigious institutions and their decision to build boathouses is somewhat tacky imo. Obviously Cheasapeake and Devon have the right to spend money however they see fit and they've played key roles in developing the river.

Yes, because creating the annual Head of the Oklahoma Regatta was a very tacky decision. Curse OCU for creating an event that draws in colleges and universities from around the country, in addition to tens of thousands of spectators/tourists, to downtown Oklahoma City! How dare they!

At this point, it seems that you are arguing simply because you want to argue. Your points are not backed by anything other than your "imo" at the end.

[bombermwc]

What I'm saying is, there is a point of diminishing returns on boathouses and we may be approaching it. A university's two main jobs are research and education. UCO and OCU are less prestigious institutions and their decision to build boathouses is somewhat tacky imo. Obviously Cheasapeake and Devon have the right to spend money however they see fit and they've played key roles in developing the river.

Less prestigous huh...um ok. Granted I'm an alum of of OCU so i have might be a little biased here, but I also have a wife that is getting her doctorate at OU as well as plenty family members having gone through there and UCO, so I feel like i can objectively look at all three (and really any university in OK). Each has it's own place and does something better than the other. However, contrary to your opinion there, it is generally considered that OCU is a more prestigous institution. Not just because it costs more, but because of the quality of education. At OCU, you only have professors with a PHD, or that are ABD on their PHD, so no grad TA's. It's all superfluous banter though....and really irrelevant to this discussion.

What you're missing about the boathouses is what their use entails beyond just being a garage for some boats. If that's all they were going to be used for, we'd just have a couple metal prefab structures with a Genie garage door opener on them. That's not what this is about. For one thing, check out how busy the CHK Boathouse is for events like fundraisers, weddings, receptions, etc. Those events are direct money makers for the facility. So for OU, that means money back....meaning the return on the investment of the facility. The other boathouses have similar options, but also can serve other special purposes based on the specialized design each of them have. You can check out the differences here on the other pages of this thread....ie the jazz ensemble emphasis for the UCO boathouse. There is no shortage for the number of people at those events either.

Not to mention the fact that it's an olympic training site now. And all the other events in crew that are held there. The more features we add, such as the lights and stands, the better the facility gets. It's just like the OU stadium. You build it because there is a desire to have more places to put people or to do things, and then the experience grows. So for the boathouse, we put more in because there is a desire/need to expand the facilities to meet the needs of the experience. And OU isn't going to lose any money on it either.

[dankrutka]

I like how you started your post... Most universities serve a very important purpose and usually have at least some programs that are excellent. However, claiming OCU is generally considered a more "prestigious" university is silly. You should have just stuck with your first part of that first paragraph.

And we can we all just move on from LandRunOkie at this point. S/he is just grasping at anything at this point. And then after a wild claim s/he puts the burden on the rest of the forum to provide proof. It's a juvenile way to form an argument.

[LandRunOkie]

It took me about 10 minutes to find the following:
ANNUAL COUNCIL REPORTS
According to that report, the athletic department has contributed $9.2 million over the past eight years in support of academic programs.

That is exactly what I'm looking for. 9.2 million over 8 years, or about 1.2 million per year. Meanwhile they make $10-30 million/year profit! What reason other than corruption and/or bureaucratic inefficiency would allow the AD to be separate from the university? If the university subsumed the AD, it would capture an order of magnitude more money from ITS athletic programs.

[Rover]

That is exactly what I'm looking for. 9.2 million over 8 years, or about 1.2 million per year. Meanwhile they make $10-30 million/year profit! What reason other than corruption and/or bureaucratic inefficiency would allow the AD to be separate from the university? If the university subsumed the AD, it would capture an order of magnitude more money from ITS athletic programs.

Are you serious or just trying to be controversial?

[LandRunOkie]

Let me throw some numbers at you. The price of books, fees, and in-state tuition is about $10,000 year. So $10 million/year would be enough to give 1,000 in state students a "full-ride", minus boarding, every year. Or 250 freshman every year. So why is the AD separate?

[hoya]

This has nothing to do with a boathouse. Grind your axe somewhere else. Clearly you're an OU student or former OU student who is pissed about his tuition. This is not the place for this discussion.

[LandRunOkie]

I'm not pissed about my tuition. Its angering to me that alumni will bend over backwards to help the football team win, but are disinterested in keeping college affordable for in state students and improving the quality of education. The reason this is an appropriate place for those concerns is because alumni money would be better spent elsewhere than "boathouse row".

Alumni also seem to be disinterested in engaging the crucial question "How does the university benefit from having a seperate, financially independent AD?"

[HangryHippo]

The benefits for the university of a separate, financially independent AD are absolutely clear in the case of OU. Simply because you refuse to acknowledge them makes them no less valid.

[Bellaboo]

Let me throw some numbers at you. The price of books, fees, and in-state tuition is about $10,000 year. So $10 million/year would be enough to give 1,000 in state students a "full-ride", minus boarding, every year. Or 250 freshman every year. So why is the AD separate?

I have a son going to Rice University in a masters program and some of his classes are $5,000.00 per class. You are getting a bargain at OU.

[BoulderSooner]

That is exactly what I'm looking for. 9.2 million over 8 years, or about 1.2 million per year. Meanwhile they make $10-30 million/year profit! What reason other than corruption and/or bureaucratic inefficiency would allow the AD to be separate from the university? If the university subsumed the AD, it would capture an order of magnitude more money from ITS athletic programs.

please show me where the athletic dept profits at 10-30 mil a year??? it doesn't ... OU is one of about 15 AD in the country that is self sufficient ..

[onthestrip]

but are disinterested in keeping college affordable for in state students and improving the quality of education.

This has more to do with university presidents spending money like there is no tomorrow. Every college has seen a building boom over recent years and have had to pass the costs on down. Also doesnt help with states diminishing education funding during the great recession.

[Pete]

Tuition for Oklahoma public colleges is still crazy low; OU & OSU are cheaper than any other Big XII school -- by a fair margin.

It has been raised substantially but that's only because is was absurd in the past; so much so the quality of education was strongly affected.


Despite the tuition increases, enrollment at OU and OSU are at or near all-time highs.

And if you are a good student, in-state schools offer tons of scholarship and grant opportunities.

[skanaly]

I'm changing the topic.
I was working out on the orgs yesterday and saw some poles up east of the boathouse, have they already started the zipline?