Oklahoma liquor laws

[barrettd]

Do you think this opposition would be enough to kill the bill? Do you think AB would really leave the state or are they just saying that to try to scare voters?

I don't drink AB products, but most Oklahomans do. Yes, it may cut into their profits, but would they really pack up and leave the state altogether when their beer accounts for an overwhelming majority of beer sales in Oklahoma?

Does their beer count for the overwhelming majority because it is arguably one of the largest and most widely available beers? I'm OK with AB leaving. If I can get cold strong beer at the grocery store or the liquor store, I'll stop buying AB anyway. Might miss their craft beers, but there will be plenty coming to replace it.

[jerrywall]

Do you think this opposition would be enough to kill the bill? Do you think AB would really leave the state or are they just saying that to try to scare voters?

Yes to the first, no to the second. They won't walk away from the state. They will put money into keeping the current system in place. I've said this before, but everyone want's to blame some mysterious, all powerful, liquor lobby (which doesn't exist) for resistance to change. It's not true. It's AB, and grocery/gas stations which resists change. Sure, they'll take change which helps them. But they have no interest in updating laws for the benefit of Oklahomans or the local beer industry. Wal-Mart and 7-11 are not friends of the in state craft beer industry, and people are fooling themselves if they think otherwise. I can at least understand AB's position, as it's their direct industry and they're trying to make profit. For the grocery/retail side, it's about merchandising and control.

[David]

The committee meeting in question is currently being streamed live at: http://oksenate.gov/meetingview-535.htm

[shavethewhales]

If you look on news9.com or newson6.com you'll see that AB has bought out every single ad space this morning. Pretty ridiculous.

Do they have TV spots too?

[bchris02]

Yes to the first, no to the second. They won't walk away from the state. They will put money into keeping the current system in place. I've said this before, but everyone want's to blame some mysterious, all powerful, liquor lobby (which doesn't exist) for resistance to change. It's not true. It's AB, and grocery/gas stations which resists change. Sure, they'll take change which helps them. But they have no interest in updating laws for the benefit of Oklahomans or the local beer industry. Wal-Mart and 7-11 are not friends of the in state craft beer industry, and people are fooling themselves if they think otherwise. I can at least understand AB's position, as it's their direct industry and they're trying to make profit. For the grocery/retail side, it's about merchandising and control.

This is why the best option for Oklahoma in the short term is simply to allow liquor stores to sell cold with expanded hours. Also, allow craft brewers to sell on-premise without having to sell through a distributor. If these changes could be made, it would make things much easier for the consumer without stirring up a hornets nest. I am sure these could be changed by simple statute if the legislature had the will to do so.

Any time you start talking about doing away with 3.2 beer, you run into this issue of AB and Miller-Coors getting special treatment and wanting to protect that treatment. They won't get behind anything that doesn't allow them to self-distribute, and the distributors won't support anything that won't allow them to get a piece of the AB and Miller-Coors pie. It's the same thing that Colorado has dealt with, and that state is far more progressive than Oklahoma.

[TheTravellers]

Screw AB and the other multinationals that are about one thing and one thing only, always and forevermore - greed and making more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. I'd be totally fine if I never saw another one of their beers in my life, getting so tired of corporations running America. Not sure what I can do to support modernization in OK other than write my rep/senator, and I'm definitely doing that, but once again, we the people have almost no power against the infinite $$$$$$$$$$$ AB can throw at this.

[David]

Looks like it passed out of the committee nearly unanimous with the title stricken.

Edit: 12 ayes, 3 nays.

[barrettd]

Looks like it passed out of the committee nearly unanimous with the title stricken.

Edit: 12 ayes, 3 nays.

I was trying to find this earlier. Where did you see it, for future reference?

[Jersey Boss]

Screw AB.

Let them leave the state as it will provide more shelf space for quality brews.

[jerrywall]

Screw AB and the other multinationals that are about one thing and one thing only, always and forevermore - greed and making more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. I'd be totally fine if I never saw another one of their beers in my life, getting so tired of corporations running America. Not sure what I can do to support modernization in OK other than write my rep/senator, and I'm definitely doing that, but once again, we the people have almost no power against the infinite $$$$$$$$$$$ AB can throw at this.

The tricky part is how do you define modernization, and how do you implement it in a way that doesn't work as a major handout to out of state corporations. There's a reason that Texas has half the liquor stores per capita than Oklahoma. IMO, refrigeration is one of the simplest solutions, and would not require a change to the constitution. Letting brewers sell direct (basically giving them the same laws as wineries) would also be a simple solution.

Things like letting grocery stores sell beer and wine, and such, gets more complicated.

[TheTravellers]

The tricky part is how do you define modernization, and how do you implement it in a way that doesn't work as a major handout to out of state corporations. There's a reason that Texas has half the liquor stores per capita than Oklahoma. IMO, refrigeration is one of the simplest solutions, and would not require a change to the constitution. Letting brewers sell direct (basically giving them the same laws as wineries) would also be a simple solution.

Things like letting grocery stores sell beer and wine, and such, gets more complicated.

Here's my take on "modernization" - small steps: refrigeration in liquor stores first, as well as letting them sell non-liquor items (although this one may be complicated too, can't remember the particulars on that), and letting brewers sell direct, then move on to the grocery/convenience store thing. I've pretty much accepted that I'll probably have to go to a liquor store to buy anything other than rocky mountain goat-p*** beer for the rest of my life in this idiot state, but at least let me buy it refrigerated and don't make me go to *another* store for a mixer or straws or even a nice little wine-bottle gift bag...

So as of now, I can't remember off the top of my head what bill or joint resolution I should be supporting, sorry, too many other bills/JRs that I've been writing emails on, so I'll do some research back on this thread, but if anybody knows off the top of *their* head what I should ask my rep/sen to support, that'd be cool.

[bchris02]

The tricky part is how do you define modernization, and how do you implement it in a way that doesn't work as a major handout to out of state corporations. There's a reason that Texas has half the liquor stores per capita than Oklahoma. IMO, refrigeration is one of the simplest solutions, and would not require a change to the constitution. Letting brewers sell direct (basically giving them the same laws as wineries) would also be a simple solution.

Things like letting grocery stores sell beer and wine, and such, gets more complicated.

Correct. I want to see more convenience for the consumer but not at the cost of AB pushing real, good beer out of the market. I would be happy with four things.

-Refrigeration in liquor stores
-Expanded hours for liquor stores (11pm closing as well as Sunday sales)
-Liquor stores can sell bottle openers and other accessories
-Microbreweries can sell direct

Of course, I would like to see grocery stores eventually be able to sell beer and wine but its so complicated because of all the different interests that are in play. Small steps is the way to get there and to do it right. The next step would be to do what Colorado did and allow chain retailers to have a single location in each metro area where they can sell full-strength beer and wine while the rest have to sell 3.2 beer. This might help get Wal-Mart on board because they would certainly oppose the changes above, which favor liquor stores and offer nothing for grocers.

[bchris02]

So as of now, I can't remember off the top of my head what bill or joint resolution I should be supporting, sorry, too many other bills/JRs that I've been writing emails on, so I'll do some research back on this thread, but if anybody knows off the top of *their* head what I should ask my rep/sen to support, that'd be cool.

Senator Bice's SB383 is the one to support, unless it gets trashed by special interests.

[David]

I was trying to find this earlier. Where did you see it, for future reference?

I was watching the stream of the committee meeting, but now the results of today's vote can be found on the bill page in the Senate Committee Report pdf on the Versions tab.

[Uptowner]

Giving breweries exclusive distribution rights in OK is a BAD thing. It's too capitalistic. First of all. Even the big local breweries like coop or anthem can't afford it. The trucks, the men, the order department, warehousing and shipping department.

But big breweries like AB, Miller-Coors, they can. And they already have the trucks and warehouses...this sets up a system where breweries could go under contract to use Miller-Coors' warehouses and shipping network. This in fact already exists under Miller-Coors roof using "six point" as a dummy Corp to distribute many brands of beers and expand their sales capability beyond MC and especially the high point beers brewed by MC. This company uses a chain-link fence to separate the 3.2 from the high grav that should be, and probably is, illegal.

The danger is, those breweries that currently have to use a broker to supply the beer through a wholesale system can now EXCLUSIVELY sell to 6 point. Now they can set the price and hold a MONOPOLY on that brand.

This only raises the price and makes it more difficult for a retailer to stock their goods.

The wholesale system makes it an even playing field for everyone. Even if central liquor didn't already distribute to half the state that is. But at least the prices are set monthly statewide by law. Every distributor sells at the same price.

I think what would make everyone happy is to give the Brewers the same benefit that the vintners enjoy and just let them set up a shop and sell beer. There's still the issue of price and tax though. And do you let the breweries have tap rooms for drinking where you can fill a growler for the road? It happens in many places around the world. But in OK that's a hell of a proposition.

AB will not leave, that's insane. But they would lose jobs to other distributors hawking their swill. Then again...on an even playing field they could bring in other products into their quarter million sf refrigerated warehouse. They're butt hurt because this means they won't be able to exclusively distribute their product, set their own prices, and treat their beer like a food product...which it most certainly isn't.

[TheTravellers]

Senator Bice's SB383 is the one to support, unless it gets trashed by special interests.

Thanks, I'll watch and support it. Just read the whole SJR 68 and it seems sorta reasonable, but still kinda screws breweries and does separate things for beer wholesalers vs. other wholesalers. Also not sure what the point of "resting" beer for a 24 hour period at a "beer wholesaler" is...

[Uptowner]

Also not sure what the point of "resting" beer for a 24 hour period at a "beer wholesaler" is...

It keeps a wholesaler from selling items not actually in their inventory. It could be a keg kept on hand in a brewery then sold by the third party(the wholesaler) that ships directly from the Brewer withou having being actually purchased and moved into the distributors warehouse
It's a trick the distributors use at places like central. The broker stores his wares in the wholesalers warehouse. The wholesaler them piecemeals the stock from the brokers(also owned by the same people who own the wholesale business). Essentially buying it from themselves while leaving the broker's stock to sit and remain as a liquid(no pun intended) and fluctuating commodity that can increase or decrease in value from month to month.

They essentially ALL use loopholes to their advantage. Therefore invested in the status quo.

Aren't our Loquor laws easy and fun??

[zookeeper]

As for Texas having half the liquor stores per capita--- when wine and beer is available in grocery stores - who cares? Except liquor store owners - legal drug dealers - who want their monopoly ("turf"). Swine.

[bradh]

AB can leave the state but please bring and leave Breckenridge back before you do.

You lose AB you start to loose a lot of the craft brewers they are garbling up.

[SouthsideSooner]

As for Texas having half the liquor stores per capita--- when wine and beer is available in grocery stores - who cares? Except liquor store owners - legal drug dealers - who want their monopoly ("turf"). Swine.

Sally Kern, is that you?

I nominate this for the most idiotic post of the month. Beer, wine and spirits are all alcohol and all have the same effect and repercussions but this person wants to demonize every liquor store owner in the state.

It's this kind of myopic, small minded, backwards thinking that you would expect from Sally...

[bchris02]

Sally Kern would likely support leaving the laws the way they are because they protect the moral fabric of Oklahoma. She would oppose grocery stores selling beer and wine and if the state could return to prohibition she would probably support it. I doubt zookeeper is Sally Kern.

[SouthsideSooner]

Sally Kern would likely support leaving the laws the way they are because they protect the moral fabric of Oklahoma. She would oppose grocery stores selling beer and wine and if the state could return to prohibition she would probably support it. I doubt zookeeper is Sally Kern.

Did you read his post bchris? You're defending him calling liquor store owners legal drug dealing swine?

...and by the way, SB 383 died in last years legislative session when it was not signed in to law. The only current bill concerning liquor stores is SJR 68..

[zookeeper]

Did you read his post bchris? You're defending him calling liquor store owners legal drug dealing swine?

...and by the way, SB 383 died in last years legislative session when it was not signed in to law. The only current bill concerning liquor stores is SJR 68..

No, you didn't understand what he said. He was saying Sally Kern would probably oppose grocery store sales of wine and beer and would most likely support the status quo.

My problem is the liquor store owners in Oklahoma want to protect their turf just like drug dealers do. Any competition must be defeated! To me, the status quo is what is small-minded backwards thinking.

Sally Kern. That is just too funny. Have you read my posts before the one you nominated as "Idiotic Post of the Month?"

[bille]

Regardless of what happens AB would never leave a market, any market...that's ludicrous. When they say this bill would "shut down a business" it means this would force AB to sell their distribution centers if beer becomes single-strength in the state. No where are they saying they'd "leave" or quit selling their products here.

...and by the way, SB 383 died in last years legislative session when it was not signed in to law. The only current bill concerning liquor stores is SJR 68..

False. SB424 and SB383 are still up for consideration. We're likely to see more initiative petitions too.

[SouthsideSooner]

No, you didn't understand what he said. He was saying Sally Kern would probably oppose grocery store sales of wine and beer and would most likely support the status quo.

My problem is the liquor store owners in Oklahoma want to protect their turf just like drug dealers do. Any competition must be defeated! To me, the status quo is what is small-minded backwards thinking.

Sally Kern. That is just too funny. Have you read my posts before the one you nominated as "Idiotic Post of the Month?"

I understood exactly what he said, just like I understood when you called liquor store owners legal drug dealing swine. you said it, so own it... that sounds just like something she would say.

...and I get it. You support another round of local small businesses losing their livelihood to big box retailers and Walmart becoming the largest wine retailer in the state while demonizing the little guy by calling them drug dealers...

I stand by what I said... idiotic post of the month, Sally...