Originally Posted by
Plutonic Panda
You know, I'm only 21 and I have a lot to learn in life, but some of the things said on this forum just make my jaw drop. It is absolutely incredible the disconnect and separation from reality that occurs. I think when a certain group of people that are like minded spend too much time around each, they start to believe things are changing towards their wants and desires because they around others that think like them but they fail to realize they are in the minority. I have seen on this website where people say we are in the minority, but do they actually believe that on a subconscious level or are they just saying that to try and tell themselves they are being reasonable.
I understand I am not going to get the kind of highways I desire here and I'm fine with that. I believe we could have better interchanges and road networks without widening one single road or highway and traffic would flow faster and smoother; I also think that is realistic, but no one has the courage to take it on.
I mean I am literally in a state of disbelief at what I read from Betts post for many reasons, the main one being that she seriously went and used China as an example saying look at their air pollution because they no bikes and it's caused by them abandoning cars. Let's just say hypothetically that she was right: what the f#ck does that have to do with us here in OKC, a metro of 1.4 million people sprawled out over 1,000 sqaure miles with a low density--the complete opposite of Chinese cities--removing a bike that I've literally only seen used 3 times and adding a car lane to that particular piece of pavement????? I mean WOW!
Many on here bash Dallas for having large highway, yet look at the massive growth in Dallas. Then we say that highways prevent good growth, lower property values, etc. yet look at property values along 635. Look at property values in Edmond along I-35 than look at them 3 miles from I-35; same thing with a lot of highways. Why is that we claim induced demand always works and use bs examples of adding one lane to already extremely congested highway like the 405(L.A.) that isn't induced demand, it's just common sense. What about Kilpatrick? Why isn't that bumper to bumper every morning and evening like it was sometimes? Now that rarely happens. Same thing with the new Crosstown... Someone tell me that if widened I-35 from downtown OKC to Norman to 12 lanes, 10 lanes plus an HOV lane(each way) that induced demand would kick in and the highway would be bumper to bumper again. You can't. Know why? Because if a couple billion were spent widening that highway to 12 lanes with good quality cement, light-rail down the center connecting to downtown Norman, commuter rail, and a BRT route, you wouldn't have to touch that highway for another 30-50 years. It would entirely solve the problem. It would impress people driving along the highway. New artwork and landscaping would be installed. New development would spur. But oohhhh no that will never happen and would be horrible if it did and blah blah blah....
Why does Europe, a place that a lot of people like to use for good development, and a lot of their countries have huge debt, high-unemployment, and some countries high poverty? I though urbanism was supposed to prevent most of that stuff? Why does Japan, an extremely urbanized country, have one of the highest suicide rates with their lack of disconnected suburban neighborhoods, I mean subdivisions, and cul-de-sacs? Sure, there are some suburbs that are dilated, but if anyone here wants to play ball, show me a suburb like Del City or something that is run down and I'll show you an urban city that over-run with crime and poverty worse than you could ever imagine.
None of this sh!t makes any sense and we have people on here like Sid and Cautromayo that saying they are glad they don't live here because of that but did they fly down here at all and protest or do something to help? Probably not. I'm sure their excuse if they see and respond to this will be 'it wouldn't have done any good.' Just like to all the people that didn't vote against Marry Fallin because she was going to win anyways. The people in this city work for us. Not the other way around. We have the power to kick their asses out if they don't meet our standards and if our council members aren't doing what they're supposed to be and our city is over-run by engineers who only care about fast moving traffic and new construction, then kick the council person or whoever elected them out of office, let them know why they were relieved of their duties, and put a new on in there that supports your beliefs. Spread the word. Campaign. Send letters. Start and advocacy group. Don't just sit on a talk forum with a bunch of other people like you and talk about how the council person(s) are too out of touch.
OKC has amazing potential and while I'm not overjoyed when this building could have been taller(putting the parking garages underneath and floors 3-10), had a better site plan(see KanyeMo's drawing), existing buildings preserved, renovated, and put to use again... but who did anything? We had a preservation group that seems like they were pussies and didn't do anything. We had a company who made their employees feel uncomfortable so they would sign the supporting petition. What the hell did we do besides sign some online petition that probably less than 0.01% of the city new about? Same thing with the Stage Center. We had an awesome piece of art that was torn down and now it might have been for nothing. Did anyone actually go out and stand around it holding a sign trying to save it? Did anyone organize a group? Did anyone chain themselves to it, getting arrested and ending up in the news spreading awareness that it is getting demo'd? What? Is that too crazy? It happens in other cities all the time. Did anyone go door to door handing out pamphlets and trying to explain to people the value and rareness the Stage Center is?
I mean what is your vision of the city? Do anyone ever see me bitching about the lack of Houston like highways in London or NYC? No. Because I like Houston and Dallas because of that. OKC is a car oriented city. The car was developed after the street car and bicycle as faster, more personal, and more efficient form of transportation. While highways might be more costly to build and maintain, that argument is quickly going to become irrelevant soon. Even when I joined, a big argument here was the high gas prices was going to make mass transit more attractive, but the recent news in the gas mileage of cars has quickly put that to rest. With sub-compacts getting 50-70MPG to trucks SUV'S getting 20-30MPG(and rising), better economy, new car ownership is now again rising. This sudden fascination with small urban areas and districts like the Plaza with Millennials is smelling more and more like a fad. I don't think it will go away, but I do suspect we will see a lot of Millennials start moving into the burbs. It has already happened from several people I know.
America is not special in sprawl. The only difference between our sprawl and sprawl in Europe is ours usually has parking in front of the buildings. Europe has it in back. Now, Europe's sprawl is more walkable, yes, but what kind of moron would move outside to the outskirts of city and complain about not being able to walk everywhere? Here in the US, we're just one of the first countries it seems to actually fund large highways giving people the additional option of living out in the green suburbs with 6 lane roads, strip malls, nicer schools, 10 lane highways, etc... which I like. Then we have these groups popping up like weeds complaining about too many highways in a city Dallas that is thriving and the question bears, why not move to a city like San Francisco or NYC if you want good urbanism? Oh, your job is located in Dallas and you can't get a good paying job in the type of city you seem to desire, well that is just downright ironic.
Sorry if I offended anyone, but some of the stuff I hear on here makes no sense to me. I'm moving to L.A. on May 21st to pursue a career in acting, so I'm going to get to experience a different city. I'm going to take a break for awhile as it seems my latest posts are getting on people's nerves, but we need to start stepping up here in OKC or nothing is going to get accomplished. I just hear a lot of talk on this site about needing to do stuff(kind of hypocritical I know) and how bad this is, but I never really see anything and I'm downtown a lot and looking at the news everyday. I never see anything progressive activism like what you hear about in cities like Austin and Portland. We had Friends for a Better Boulevard(which I don't think made one difference in fact made things worse because we are essentially getting the same road, just one less lane and a mile of bike lanes in front of the CC and Park, and a lower speed limit. That will do absolutely nothing for the walkability of the area. It's still a boulevard designed to move a car from point a to point b very quickly and reducing it from 6 to 4 lanes, adding a bike lane a part of it, and even reducing the speed limit doesn't change a thing. At the end of the day, it is still a road designed to move people from point a to point b very fast) and a couple other small projects, but nothing really that will make an impact on a large scale. I'm not trying to dog on the site or the people here, but just the people around the city in general don't seem to do too much about some of these issues.
That is my 2 cents on a lot things and again, if you are offended, sorry, but that's the way I see it currently.
Re: 499 Sheridan
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