New Downtown Arena

[PhiAlpha]

Just wait until we get Olympic events in 2028 and every single shot shows the whitewater facility, Boathouse Row, and the skyline in the background.

There is simply nothing other than big-time sports that create that type of exposure and immeasurable goodwill.

The Olympics will be absolutely insane.

[Urbanized]

Pretty much the response was "you can't pay us to come there, because there's nothing to do."

This is simply a continuation of the response to that. Like Pete said, it is the next step in the MAPS progress.

The response, when Mayor Norick challenged United on why they chose Indianapolis over OKC - despite OKC offering clearly better incentives during their pitch - was (I’m paraphrasing) “yes, you indeed offered the best incentives, but at the end of the day we don’t want our employees to be forced to live in your city.”

The Chamber commissioned a study in the 90s to see what the perception was of OKC from outsiders. They didn’t really find that the perception was bad so much as they found that there was literally ZERO impression of OKC to outsiders. Within that perception vacuum they generally assumed we still rode around in buckboard wagons.

If you asked people from elsewhere to name the largest city in Oklahoma they almost invariably would say “Tulsa.” Recruiters from our major corporations would visit universities throughout the country and they couldn’t even get visits, because college graduates couldn’t even IMAGINE living in a place they’d barely heard of. Consultants like Richard Florida told OKC’s leaders that the only way forward was to appeal to the creative class, who cluster around places with broad lifestyle and entertainment choices.

OKC was virtually flatlining prior to the start of MAPS. And has witnessed explosive growth since, ESPECIALLY since the Thunder arrived. In nearly every metric that matters. Population growth. GDP growth. Sales tax collections. If you want data, there’s your data.

Comparing the impact the Thunder has had on OKC vs the impact teams have on cities like Seattle, Chicago, LA, NYC, is an apples and oranges comparison. It’s disingenuous. OF COURSE a team has less impact on cities with multiple teams, ample entertainment options and already-established national and international identities. We never had such an identity, and the presence of the Thunder has moved that needle more than anything that’s happened in decades. Anyone who lived in OKC prior to MAPS and the arrival of the Thunder knows EXACTLY what I mean, even if they don’t love basketball.

Quality of life maintenance and improvements has been the focus of OKC ever since MAPS first passed. It has in fact BECOME our identity. The ENTIRE POINT of MAPS was “vibes and intangibles.”

[Mississippi Blues]

Just wait until we get Olympic events in 2028 and every single shot shows the whitewater facility, Boathouse Row, and the skyline in the background.

There is simply nothing other than big-time sports that create that type of exposure and immeasurable goodwill.

We talk about this and, like I’ve said elsewhere on the forum, I love to think about these things, but it has to be asked what happens after that? What does the exposure achieve? There’s likely commercial interest that brings in added revenue and development to the city, which is always good. Is it guaranteed that the return will outweigh the expense? If it’s a long term deal, what happens in the short term to citizens that could benefit now versus waiting generations to see it pay off, assuming the local government is competent?

Again, I know I’m just stating the obvious and it’s all cherry-picked hypothetical thought experiments from me that aren’t tied to the new arena, but if sports and the exposure provided more than a vague promise of immeasurable goodwill, we shouldn’t have to overlook the immediate things that benefit a city and its citizens that can’t be observed by outsiders.

[Mississippi Blues]

^

But almost everyone knows OKC has an NBA team, so even though many don't know the difference between Tulsa, Wichita, and any number of fly-over cities, they absolutely know cowtowns don't get top-flight pro sports franchises.

Mayor Holt loves to go into excessive hyperbole about all this be he is right about one thing: You are either a Big League City or you are not. And since we only have one Big League team, losing it would be catastrophic to our reputation and our own self-esteem.

I say all that while being pretty indifferent about the NBA; I just care about what the Thunder means for the city I love.

I actively talk to people that also actively follow the NBA on various forums and these are largely the people I hear these remarks from, though when in person like restaurants or public transit and they ask where I’m from or I’m walking in a city and they see my Westbrook jersey, they might not be as direct. I can’t take a survey to tell you what everyone thinks about Oklahoma City, but people being aware that Oklahoma City has a professional team doesn’t erase their other perceptions about the city. If anything it seems to confuse them how a place so backwards could get a team.

Funnily enough, my best “outsider” interactions in regards to Oklahoma City and the Thunder have been while in Seattle. I’ve had some good ones while in Los Angeles and San Francisco as well.

Edit to say: to be fair, most of those I talk ball with both online and in person are my age (28) or younger, occasionally older, and much less likely to be educated and rounded in critical thinking, so it probably should be expected that they’d have a distorted caricature of what Oklahoma City is.

[Jake]

This will pass easily and OKC will get a new arena.

Not much else to say. I had a long, drawn out post in response to things but it’d just be a waste of time.

*shrugs*

[April in the Plaza]

This will pass easily and OKC will get a new arena.

Not much else to say. I had a long, drawn out post in response to things but it’d just be a waste of time.

*shrugs*

It will definitely pass but i would also hope it is an objectively good deal for the city. The ownership group will get at least $200M in expansion fees. And honestly it could end up being a lot more than that.

So they can chip in more than $75M. Kaiser wipes his a$$ with that type of cash.

[Mississippi Blues]

This will pass easily and OKC will get a new arena.

Not much else to say. I had a long, drawn out post in response to things but it’d just be a waste of time.

*shrugs*

It’s tenable to talk about things that have a predictable outcome. Shoot, I’m making (basic) arguments against something that I’m actually in favor of. Most topics are broader than “this isn’t decided so let’s discuss.”

[Jake]

It’s tenable to talk about things that have a predictable outcome. Shoot, I’m making (basic) arguments against something that I’m actually in favor of. Most topics are broader than “this isn’t decided so let’s discuss.”

I mean, I never said you couldn’t discuss it. Go for it.

[Mississippi Blues]

I mean, I never said you couldn’t discuss it. Go for it.

Sure, I didn’t misread. My response was out of interest about the thoughts you considered sharing and to encourage you or others that adding thoughts to a doubtless topic can still be vital for important discussions.

[Urbanized]

I’ll tell you when I knew the Thunder was worth it: July 28, 2010.

The night before I’d seen the Flaming Lips in Central Park, on the Summer Stage. As I was waiting in line at the entry to the venue, the dude behind me lost his mind because I was wearing a Thunder T-shirt with Thabo Sefalosha’s name and number on the back.

“Dude!! Are you REALLY from Oklahoma City?!” he asked. He was a dejected Knicks fan who was living vicariously through the Thunder. He said it was his favorite team, so long as the Knicks were so bad. He could name every player, down to the 2-ways. We talked for a while, then wished each other well and went our separate ways. And I got the distinct impression that he believed that HE had just had the coolest experience of both of ours. He was straight up THRILLED to have met a living, breathing, Oklahoma City Thunder season ticket holder.

The next day, I was walking through the NYC Financial District, and on the sidewalk I spotted a family who simply MUST have been from OKC. They had a tow headed kid about ten years old, and the kid was wearing a Thunder swingman jersey with KD’s name and number on it. So I said, “hey! I’m from OKC too!!” They looked at me in puzzlement. I pointed to the kid’s jersey, and explained that I’d assumed they were from OKC because of it. They still seemed a bit puzzled, but explained to me in heavily-accented English that they weren’t from OKC. Or Oklahoma. They were from Paris. France.

You can tell me ‘til you’re blue in the face that there is no tangible benefit from being a major league city and I won’t believe you. You’re wrong.

[Bellaboo]

Plus 100 ^^^^^

[Shortsyeararound]

I actively talk to people that also actively follow the NBA on various forums and these are largely the people I hear these remarks from, though when in person like restaurants or public transit and they ask where I’m from or I’m walking in a city and they see my Westbrook jersey, they might not be as direct. I can’t take a survey to tell you what everyone thinks about Oklahoma City, but people being aware that Oklahoma City has a professional team doesn’t erase their other perceptions about the city. If anything it seems to confuse them how a place so backwards could get a team.

Funnily enough, my best “outsider” interactions in regards to Oklahoma City and the Thunder have been while in Seattle. I’ve had some good ones while in Los Angeles and San Francisco as well.

Edit to say: to be fair, most of those I talk ball with both online and in person are my age (28) or younger, occasionally older, and much less likely to be educated and rounded in critical thinking, so it probably should be expected that they’d have a distorted caricature of what Oklahoma City is.

Distorted caricature - yes. When I lived in Los Angeles in the late 90’s there were two questions people would ask me when they found out I was from Oklahoma City- 1. Did I know anyone that died in the bombing (tacky tacky) and 2. Did more people ride horses than drive cars (asked more than I would have ever imagined). Fast forward to this past fall when we were in SoCal for two separate trips and when people asked us about OKC- it was all about the Thunder, loss of KD, or Westbrook, and USC stealing coaches/players from Ou. The Thunder have def helped our place in the national conversation. If the arena comes to a vote of the people my wife and I will of course vote yes.

[Pete]

I can’t take a survey to tell you what everyone thinks about Oklahoma City, but people being aware that Oklahoma City has a professional team doesn’t erase their other perceptions about the city. If anything it seems to confuse them how a place so backwards could get a team.

You are talking about people on a discussion forum being negative and critical... To expect otherwise is unrealistic.

I can tell you I lived in Los Angeles for 25 years -- where people think California is the center of the universe -- and when the Thunder started to do well and get attention, attitudes completely changed about OKC.

[Zuplar]

You are talking about people on a discussion forum being negative and critical... To expect otherwise is unrealistic.

I can tell you I lived in Los Angeles for 25 years -- where people think California is the center of the universe -- and when the Thunder started to do well and get attention, attitudes completely changed about OKC.

Curious in what way?

Pre-Thunder when I traveled and mentioned being from OKC I usually just got the comment, "friendly people" or "never been there." While I'll still hear those comments today, I definitely get comments about the Thunder as well. In my mind, that's just added small-talk content, not a shift in attitudes.

[Pete]

I've already described how perception changed.

This is a pretty fruitless discussion because it's all anecdotal and nothing said is going to change anybody's mind and it's certainly not going to change the fact this project is going to sail through the public vote.

[OkieBerto]

I’ll tell you when I knew the Thunder was worth it: July 28, 2010.

The night before I’d seen the Flaming Lips in Central Park, on the Summer Stage. As I was waiting in line at the entry to the venue, the dude behind me lost his mind because I was wearing a Thunder T-shirt with Thabo Sefalosha’s name and number on the back.

“Dude!! Are you REALLY from Oklahoma City?!” he asked. He was a dejected Knicks fan who was living vicariously through the Thunder. He said it was his favorite team, so long as the Knicks were so bad. He could name every player, down to the 2-ways. We talked for a while, then wished each other well and went our separate ways. And I got the distinct impression that he believed that HE had just had the coolest experience of both of ours. He was straight up THRILLED to have met a living, breathing, Oklahoma City Thunder season ticket holder.

The next day, I was walking through the NYC Financial District, and on the sidewalk I spotted a family who simply MUST have been from OKC. They had a tow headed kid about ten years old, and the kid was wearing a Thunder swingman jersey with KD’s name and number on it. So I said, “hey! I’m from OKC too!!” They looked at me in puzzlement. I pointed to the kid’s jersey, and explained that I’d assumed they were from OKC because of it. They still seemed a bit puzzled, but explained to me in heavily-accented English that they weren’t from OKC. Or Oklahoma. They were from Paris. France.

You can tell me ‘til you’re blue in the face that there is no tangible benefit from being a major league city and I won’t believe you. You’re wrong.

This just reminded me of a time I was at a Music Festival in Arkansas and it brought so many types of people from all over. I was wearing a shirt from Tree & Leaf Clothing, RIP, and it was the design with the Oklahoma Map and the word Okla-Home. They were shocked at how I would wear that and be proud to tell people I was from Oklahoma. Not because it was Oklahoma, but because they didn't feel the same about their state. This was after the Thunder had a great season and people started realizing Oklahoma isn't what everyone else thought it was.

There is a ton you can say about Oklahoma that isn't great and sometimes downright embarrassing, but the Thunder have always been a positive in all my conversations with out-of-state peeps.

[PhiAlpha]

This just reminded me of a time I was at a Music Festival in Arkansas and it brought so many types of people from all over. I was wearing a shirt from Tree & Leaf Clothing, RIP, and it was the design with the Oklahoma Map and the word Okla-Home. They were shocked at how I would wear that and be proud to tell people I was from Oklahoma. Not because it was Oklahoma, but because they didn't feel the same about their state. This was after the Thunder had a great season and people started realizing Oklahoma isn't what everyone else thought it was.

There is a ton you can say about Oklahoma that isn't great and sometimes downright embarrassing, but the Thunder have always been a positive in all my conversations with out-of-state peeps.

Good point here. It’s not just OKC who’s perception it helps…it’s the entire state. Obviously helps the city the most but it’s one more thing that sets us apart from the 24 states without professional sports and lumps us in with the group that does.

Sports are also one of the few things that, for the most part aside from a few instances, bridge the political gap and anything that can do that right now is a good thing.

[SagerMichael]

I’m living proof. I was born and raised just outside of Atlanta. Sports has always been a huge part of my life so my first thought of any city is the skylines and pro sports teams (what I’ve seen on TV). Watching the Thunder make the finals as a teen and be competitive every single year without a doubt put OKC on the map in my eyes. I saw a loud, passionate fan base. I saw downtown aerial shots and the Bricktown canal on ABC’s commercial cuts. I saw just enough that I thought of OKC as a big league town. When the time came and I moved out here I felt an appreciation for the town. I loved this city before I even moved out here. The Thunder are a big reason why.

[OkieBerto]

Good point here. It’s not just OKC who’s perception it helps…it’s the entire state. Obviously helps the city the most but it’s one more thing that sets us apart from the 24 states without professional sports and lumps us in with the group that does.

Sports are also one of the few things that, for the most part aside from a few instances, bridge the political gap and anything that can do that right now is a good thing.

Not to mention that it also helped OKC get better Music tours and concerts. Haha! I haven't had to drive to Tulsa as much anymore! Thanks Thunder!

[Urbanized]

I’m living proof. I was born and raised just outside of Atlanta. Sports has always been a huge part of my life so my first thought of any city is the skylines and pro sports teams (what I’ve seen on TV). Watching the Thunder make the finals as a teen and be competitive every single year without a doubt put OKC on the map in my eyes. I saw a loud, passionate fan base. I saw downtown aerial shots and the Bricktown canal on ABC’s commercial cuts. I saw just enough that I thought of OKC as a big league town. When the time came and I moved out here I felt an appreciation for the town. I loved this city before I even moved out here. The Thunder are a big reason why.

This.

[Shortsyeararound]

I’m living proof. I was born and raised just outside of Atlanta. Sports has always been a huge part of my life so my first thought of any city is the skylines and pro sports teams (what I’ve seen on TV). Watching the Thunder make the finals as a teen and be competitive every single year without a doubt put OKC on the map in my eyes. I saw a loud, passionate fan base. I saw downtown aerial shots and the Bricktown canal on ABC’s commercial cuts. I saw just enough that I thought of OKC as a big league town. When the time came and I moved out here I felt an appreciation for the town. I loved this city before I even moved out here. The Thunder are a big reason why.

That is an amazing soul story to your learning of Okc. We aren’t dumb hicks, “okies” as the term started derogatorily to meant. Thank you for sharing.

[FighttheGoodFight]

This made me want to see fan interview of people who became Thunder fans. Would be a cool series.

[EtanEiko]

I’m living proof. I was born and raised just outside of Atlanta. Sports has always been a huge part of my life so my first thought of any city is the skylines and pro sports teams (what I’ve seen on TV). Watching the Thunder make the finals as a teen and be competitive every single year without a doubt put OKC on the map in my eyes. I saw a loud, passionate fan base. I saw downtown aerial shots and the Bricktown canal on ABC’s commercial cuts. I saw just enough that I thought of OKC as a big league town. When the time came and I moved out here I felt an appreciation for the town. I loved this city before I even moved out here. The Thunder are a big reason why.

Thank you for sharing this! #TTFU!

[soonerguru]

Already seeing the, “this city has more pressing needs than basketball” posts on social media. I mean, I get why people say that, but people who do are ignoring the hundreds of millions that are already committed to being spent to address these concerns from two bond issues and MAPS 4.

A lot of the folks are seemingly smart but obviously clueless about city government, our budget, and aforementioned bonds and MAPS.

Anyone who thinks locking down an NBA team in OKC for 25 more years won’t improve our tax collections and growth and also elevate OKC’s profile is a dunce.

The irony is that an increasing employment and tax base resulting from this infrastructure investment will give OKC more resources to address these problems. Conversely, losing our only major league franchise would devastate this city’s morale and plague our city’s reputation.

[BG918]

Good point here. It’s not just OKC who’s perception it helps…it’s the entire state. Obviously helps the city the most but it’s one more thing that sets us apart from the 24 states without professional sports and lumps us in with the group that does.

Sports are also one of the few things that, for the most part aside from a few instances, bridge the political gap and anything that can do that right now is a good thing.

Absolutely. So from those of us that don't live in OKC and can't vote don't screw this up for the rest of us!