Streetcar

[Ross MacLochness]

the website is the real time data that is displayed on the pylons.

[BBatesokc]

the website is the real time data that is displayed on the pylons.

I would have assumed it's the same data. Just odd when we've stood at the platform it's never correct but we've literally sat in our office and watched out the window and timed it with the website and it's within a minute. Weird coincidence.

[kukblue1]

Did the Street Car both Saturday and Sunday and was packed both days. JT concert in town Saturday night. Sunday I think a lot of people were riding it cause it was the last free weekend. While riding it after the Thunder game Sunday night sandwiched in I made the comment how are they going to check to see if people paid. Guy next too me pointed up and said there are scanners right above the doors that will pick up your ticket or phone. He claims even if it's in your pocket but i'm not sure about that but it seems you will have to just scan your phone or ticket when getting on.

[catch22]

^ I think he has the automated people counters confused with fare enforcement. They are cameras that count passengers entering and exiting but they can’t just read your fare or phone data.

I believe it will be on the honor system like most transit systems with enforcement carried out by random spot checks.

[Jeepnokc]

when is the last free day?

[Pete]

when is the last free day?

Friday, Feb 1.

[Timshel]

Holt just announced on Twitter that there will be full Sunday service going forward, pending COPTA board approval. Great news (though it seems pretty obvious that this should have happened from the beginning).

If only full streetlight prioritization could also happen...then we may really have something.

[TheTravellers]

Watching the city council meeting now, and Craig Freeman has proven himself to be car-centric with literally the 2nd sentence out of his mouth during the streetcar prioritization, ugh...

Shadid's pulling for full signal prioritization, instead of the incremental BS they're planning to do (supposedly there are signals that aren't a problem for the loop timing, Freeman said), and to me it all boils down to this - a streetcar should never have to stop at any signal at all. Shadid pretty much said (paraphrasing) "Since you've put $130,000,000 into this, why would you *not* want to get as close to the lowest possible loop timing as soon as possible? Put full signal prioritization in now."

Just heard that they're applying for $1,000,000 in funds to do bus signal prioritization, so that's a very good thing to hear!

[Pete]

Yes, Freeman has advocated for doing 5 of the intersections (from city money, not MAPS) and then taking a wait-and-see attitude for the remaining 16.

[shawnw]

Holt also just announced 5 more signals (in addition to the first five) getting prioritization.

[Pete]

Holt also just announced 5 more signals (in addition to the first five) getting prioritization.

That would be 10 of the entire 16.

Why not just do them all and be done with this?

[HangryHippo]

That would be 10 of the entire 16.

Why not just do them all and be done with this?

Damn good question, Pete. Makes no sense not to.

[Pete]

Looking at this more closely, my understanding is that 6 of the intersections will be complete by Feb. 1st with a wait-and-see approach for the remaining 15.

No MAPS money will be used for the initial intersections although there is talk that if all 21 get address that MAPS funds may be used to reimburse the city for all.

[OKC Guy]

Its too bad they didn’t make the route a box style and all right turns, then we would have less worry about left turn lights.

[Johnb911]

[TheTravellers]

So I'm guessing we're just stuck with the incremental signal prioritization plan, didn't seem like the council did anything to advance doing all of them now (as it should've been done, and should've been in place before the first streetcar run was open to the public). Just stupid to let less than 1/2 of 1% of the total cost of the streetcar be an issue and worrying about how the poor car drivers might be slightly inconvenienced...

Didn't realize this, but UP's comments (correct me if I'm wrong, just kind of paraphrasing) were interesting about how some municipalities think of the streetcar more as an economic development tool to increase sales tax revenue than as public transit - build the streetcar (sometimes going places where there isn't much development), businesses fill in along the route, people use the streetcar to get back and forth easily, buy more stuff, sales tax revenue goes up, and by the way, it also kind of helps people get back and forth from their jobs.

[OKC Guy]

So I'm guessing we're just stuck with the incremental signal prioritization plan, didn't seem like the council did anything to advance doing all of them now (as it should've been done, and should've been in place before the first streetcar run was open to the public). Just stupid to let less than 1/2 of 1% of the total cost of the streetcar be an issue and worrying about how the poor car drivers might be slightly inconvenienced...

Didn't realize this, but UP's comments (correct me if I'm wrong, just kind of paraphrasing) were interesting about how some municipalities think of the streetcar more as an economic development tool to increase sales tax revenue than as public transit - build the streetcar (sometimes going places where there isn't much development), businesses fill in along the route, people use the streetcar to get back and forth easily, buy more stuff, sales tax revenue goes up, and by the way, it also kind of helps people get back and forth from their jobs.

About your second paragraph. Adding up the costs ($130m plus years of routine upkeep and upgrades) we will never get the taxes back from the costs.

If we wanted to build the core tax base then finding a way to get people “to” the core would be a cheaper way to increase tax base. This SC system is a small circular (in the big scheme of things based on size of OKC) and is only good for tourists or downtown workers (who live there) and some from out of downtown.

No one who lives out of core and works in the core is driving car to park and then get on SC after untimely waits. People can use it for bar hopping and gameday. And to me the biggest gain will be when OMNI and convention and park open it will be more touristy, which is fine.

I personally would have spent the money on how to get people downtown without having to drive downtown and that would increase downtown business and taxes more than SC. I would have then used a fleet of micro buses to move people around once downtown.

But one thing I agree on, since its here we need the lights fixed as lomg as it does not create major problems backing up car traffic and hurting cars ability to get to establishments (and even walkers trying to cross street).

The SC is cool looking and will get a lot of out of towners to try it. One thing we need to do is get advertisements in all the businesses along and close to route listing every business located at each stop. Even if it takes people away from your business it will also bring them to your business. At each business imagine having a SC menu. It lists below each stop every business and what they are. Out of downtowners could then see what places to go visit and what stop its on and how to get there from the stop (menu would show this, like “get off SC, turn right and walk aprox 4 storefronts and its on your right”). Something like that.

[hoya]

The biggest thing about the streetcar is that it's a proof of concept. Almost everybody I've talked to who has ridden it has loved it. "This is so cool! It's like we're a big city!"

That was the goal. Mission accomplished.

Over the next few years, the city is going to try to fund a regional mass transit rail system. But we (arguably) needed the streetcar so that people could go ride it and get a picture in their heads of what this system would be like. The streetcar as it exists right now is primarily a tourist attraction and entertainment event circulator. Yes, it also drives up property values and promotes higher development along its path. But it was designed with possible expansion in mind, and I think connecting it to some nearby neighborhoods will give us the beginnings of a pretty solid transportation system.

It isn't the most cost effective, but it is the proof of concept that we needed. First and foremost, it had to change attitudes towards mass transportation.

[Urban Pioneer]

didn't seem like the council did anything to advance doing all of them now

Didn't realize this, but UP's comments (correct me if I'm wrong, just kind of paraphrasing) were interesting about how some municipalities think of the streetcar more as an economic development tool to increase sales tax revenue than as public transit

On those two items-

1. Council couldn't do anything in this meeting as there wasn't an item to vote on since the MAPS Advisory Panel shot down the 21 signal plan last week. Yes, now we are down to 15 intersections that could have it but won't yet.

2. My comments about economic development pretty much related to Kansas City and Miluakee's decision to go fare-free. They see the streetcar as a way to more easily enable pedestrian activity and therefore boost sales tax revenues by increasing access to the businesses along the line.

I agreed with all of Councilman Shadid's comments. I really wasn't sure how far to go with some of it. Mayor Holt seems much more receptive to broader transit investments (bus and streetcar) in MAPS 4. I don't see Freeman being the obstacle that Couch was. I could be wrong about that, but as long as the books balance, I don't think he has the personal vendetta that Couch did against public transit.

[Rover]

Better public transit and increased sales and property taxes should go hand in hand.

[Urban Pioneer]

And obviously, they do. My point is that those communities considered fares to be a potential barrier to use for some folks. They came to the decision to not charge fares and feel that the increased return is greater than the increased operational expense. That is the context of my comments to the City Council on that issue.

[Pryor Tiger]

I have heard that OKC could see up to 2 Million in annual fares paid (About $547.00 a day average) - It would be interesting to see how much sales tax revenue has gone up in Kansas city within a half mile of the streetcar route...

[Laramie]

[soonerguru]

That would be 10 of the entire 16.

Why not just do them all and be done with this?

100%. This city is so strange. Sam Anderson needs to get to work on Boom Town 2. I'm sure there is some rich material to mine, such as Kimberly Lowe's absurd public comments about "instant gratification" as related to a modest request for signal priority. WITAF?

[Urban Pioneer]

https://journalrecord.com/2019/01/25...eetcar-system/