BancFirst Tower

[KayneMo]

I wonder how much reinforcing the existing columns are getting or if the columns that are being removed were completely redundant. I would think there would at least be a thicker cross beam between the remaining columns.

The columns being removed are decorative. Structural columns are every other column.

It looks like the remaining columns will be thicker and then have those cross beams as well.

I think the columns look thicker in the renderings is because the column wraps will be bigger, not the columns themselves.

[BoulderSooner]

Another forgotten bonus of Bancfirst owning this now. No more lit-up Christmas cross.

i have been told that it will be back on this buidling

[David]

They let you be and let you live your life as you want with nothing more than a few symbols here and there to look at.

This is nonsensical. The influence the Christian faith has on the society we live in is almost endless and goes far beyond a symbol here and there. The LGBT community says hi, for one fairly obvious example.

[Jeepnokc]

This is nonsensical. The influence the Christian faith has on the society we live in is almost endless and goes far beyond a symbol here and there. The LGBT community says hi, for one fairly obvious example.

and I would have problem with a building being lit up in the rainbow flag colors I don't think any group should be prevented from displaying their symbol on private property Hopefully Devon and BOK buildings do that during Pride Week

[Pete]

The weird thing about the cross is that is not a symbol of Christmas. I know it's the easiest thing to do, but where else do you see the cross used at Christmastime?

[David]

For the record I don't personally give a crap about the presence of the crosses on the downtown towers, I just recoil from the ludicrous statement "The church lets you be and lets you live your life as you want with nothing more than a few symbols here and there to look at." Maybe mugofbeer honestly believes that, but it is really really not true.

[chuckchuck]

Regarding the pedestrian issues, now the city has decided to fill the middle of the median with gravel and erect signs saying not a pedestrian walkway. So I guess I am forced to walk in the street.

[ourulz2000]

The weird thing about the cross is that is not a symbol of Christmas. I know it's the easiest thing to do, but where else do you see the cross used at Christmastime?

Jesus never said to remember his birth, but instructed to remember his death & resurrection. With that said, Christmas, to have any meaning, cannot be separated from the cross.

Matthew 1:21 "And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”
John 18:37 "Then Pilate said to him, “So you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world."

[5alive]

^^^This

[Pete]

My point wasn't about the religious aspect, just that the cross is almost never used as a Christmas decoration. So, it's an odd choice to put on two big buildings.

[GoGators]

Maybe they'll add a 200 foot cross to the top of the building. Light it up big and bright with a beam shining up into the heavens and so it can be seen from 50 miles - maybe it will rotate.

It really must be hard having such a hatred for the church. They let you be and let you live your life as you want with nothing more than a few symbols here and there to look at. It's good you don't live in one of many places on the planet where you either participate in the local religion or die. By the way, how's that Christmas shopping going?

It’s good that we all live in a country where we are free to follow any religion we want. We should all fight vigilantly against any group or religious organization who actively tries to shape public policy to fit their own religious beliefs while continually attempting to blur the lines between the church and the state.

With that said, I’m not sure what citing religious oppression abroad has to do with liking or not liking a cross on a private building.

[jonny d]

It’s good that we all live in a country where we are free to follow any religion we want. We should all fight vigilantly against any group or religious organization who actively tries to shape public policy to fit their own religious beliefs while continually attempting to blur the lines between the church and the state.

With that said, I’m not sure what citing religious oppression abroad has to do with liking or not liking a cross on a private building.

I am not sure what law, regulation, etc you can cite to keep a private company from doing with their building lights, to an extent, what they want to do. IF they wanted to put a phallic symbol, you might get them on indecent exposure. But for putting a cross on the building, not sure what you can do.

[GoGators]

I am not sure what law, regulation, etc you can cite to keep a private company from doing with their building lights, to an extent, what they want to do. IF they wanted to put a phallic symbol, you might get them on indecent exposure. But for putting a cross on the building, not sure what you can do.

The owners of this building should absolutely put anything they want on their building. I may not have been clear with my post.

[mugofbeer]

This is nonsensical. The influence the Christian faith has on the society we live in is almost endless and goes far beyond a symbol here and there. The LGBT community says hi, for one fairly obvious example.

First, let me point out that I am atheist - but it doesn't cause me to hate Christians or Christianity. I am also one of the strongest supporters of the right of a person to be Christian and practice the faith as long as they aren't practicing hatred towards others - including the LGBT community.

What it sounds like is that you are just hyper-sensitive to the Christianity you see around you and can't stand that there are millions who don't believe what you do. One can either choose to ignore what you don't believe and make the best of it or you can to obsess over every single church, cross, Christmas light, commercial and song you hear.

You live in a country where Christianity predominates and always has, and it's not going to stop anytime soon. Except for your parents, who I bet hold some blame in this hatred you show for the faith, no one is forcing you to participate in it. My decision was made growing up in a fundamentalist church that I just couldn't agree with. I never felt "it" and realized I was just too scientific to believe in metaphysical beings. How we came to being, how the universe came to being is beyond us still, but that doesn't mean it has magical causes.

It all boils down to how you choose to live your life. You can get along with everyone or you can become a thorn in people's sides and be an irritant. Those who run around denouncing Christianity or organized religion are sort of like those people at work who constantly complain but don't give any solutions - they are like mosquitos - just a useless but irritating pest.

I participate in Christmas because of the feeling and the season and what it means to kids. I put up lights and Frosty the snowman in the front yard. I know Jews who put up Christmas lights because they are festive and they love them all up and down the block. There is a Muslim family 3 doors down from me who doesn't put up lights but will put out luminarias the weekend before Christmas and is very respectful of Christianity - but does not wear their Muslim faith on their sleeve or bitch about the prevalence of Christians around them.

When was the last time you were accosted by a Christian for not going to church on Sunday morning?

When was the last time you were forced to grow a beard?

When was the last time your wife was beaten by "Christian religious police" because she was driving a car, not wearing something on her head, or talking to a man other than her husband?

When was the last time you were forced to attend a Christian service?

When was the last time you were forced to eat food prepared only in a Christian way?

When was the last time a Christian TV show or movie came on and you were not allowed to change the channel or turn it off?

If your goal is to eliminate Christian symbolism, you are barking up the wrong tree in the wrong part of the country. Try the east or west coast. Even here in far more liberal Denver, there still symbolism. Even in NYC where a large portion of the population is not Christian, there is still symbolism.

Just like those who wear Trump MAGA hats in more liberal parts of the country, if you don't want to find trouble, don't wear your atheism on your sleeve. You'll be a lot happier of you just learn to live with it but do your own thing. Take the good things about the faith, like the commandments or the charitable acts and selflessness and make the best of it. You're trying to swim upstream like a salmon who just hit a dam.


Edit: Oops, sorry, off topic. I'll stop.

[David]

Once again, the LGBT community says hi.

Also, go back and read the thread and look at who you were responding to then versus now. You might note that I am not that person. I never argued against the crosses in the first place, just the idea, once again, that "They let you be and let you live your life as you want with nothing more than a few symbols here and there to look at." is nonsense.

[bchris02]

In my opinion the biggest issue with the crosses today is the fact that evangelical Christianity has become so politicized. It’s not a stretch to just call it a “T” for Trump instead of a cross. Much of the controversy surrounding Christian symbolism in public coincides with the rise of the political Christian Right in the 1980s. One of the consequences of not separating church and state is that religious symbols become political symbols. If our politics were more secular, I think things such as crosses, Ten Commandments monuments, and other Christian symbols would be less controversial.

At the end of the day though, it’s 100% the building owner’s decision. Several years ago one of the buildings on NW Expressway lit up “Fallin 4 Gov” in their window and I thought that was poor taste.

[Plutonic Panda]

It’s not a stretch to just call it a “T” for Trump instead of a cross.

Wut

[bombermwc]

FYI, the right does not OWN Christianity. There is such thing as a left Christianity too. Don't let the loud propaganda of the extremes drown out the more reasonable voices in the middle either. Christianity is not a "our way or the highway" thing either (contrary to the right). It's also NOT a single issue voter thing (again, contrary to the right). And you dont have to be a right to be a Christian.

So, leave that cross up there, it's fine. And it DOES NOT equate to T for Trump!!!!

[PaddyShack]

What ever happened to the median with gravel and the current pedestrian issues around the construction site?

[gopokes88]

FYI, the right does not OWN Christianity. There is such thing as a left Christianity too. Don't let the loud propaganda of the extremes drown out the more reasonable voices in the middle either. Christianity is not a "our way or the highway" thing either (contrary to the right). It's also NOT a single issue voter thing (again, contrary to the right). And you dont have to be a right to be a Christian.

So, leave that cross up there, it's fine. And it DOES NOT equate to T for Trump!!!!

There are parts of the right, and especially Trump, that are deeply not Christ like, and there are parts of the left that are not Christ like.

Christ wasn't a political figure and was involved very little with the Roman govt. His command wasn't to build great Christian governments, it was to spread his word, which in turn would build great Christian societies. That may lead to governments that have Christian aspects to them, but the order in America can be flipped (We should implement Christian govt so we can have a Christian society) at times and that's a failure of the modern church.

[Anonymous.]

What ever happened to the median with gravel and the current pedestrian issues around the construction site?

Literally nothing has changed. Pedestrians are just walking in traffic lanes on both Main and Broadway.

[PhiAlpha]

In my opinion the biggest issue with the crosses today is the fact that evangelical Christianity has become so politicized. It’s not a stretch to just call it a “T” for Trump instead of a cross. Much of the controversy surrounding Christian symbolism in public coincides with the rise of the political Christian Right in the 1980s. One of the consequences of not separating church and state is that religious symbols become political symbols. If our politics were more secular, I think things such as crosses, Ten Commandments monuments, and other Christian symbols would be less controversial.At the end of the day though, it’s 100% the building owner’s decision. Several years ago one of the buildings on NW Expressway lit up “Fallin 4 Gov” in their window and I thought that was poor taste.

LIES! Donald Trump would never endorse the use of a lower case t to represent the Trump brand. lol

[Martin]

oh, it's the annual downtown cross argument... that's how i know it's almost christmas!

[HangryHippo]

LIES! Donald Trump would never endorse the use of a lower case t to represent the Trump brand. lol

lol

[DCARS]

The weird thing about the cross is that is not a symbol of Christmas. I know it's the easiest thing to do, but where else do you see the cross used at Christmastime?

I really wish this conversation hadn't come up. I try my best to not engage in these arguments, but I can't let this go unanswered. Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Jesus, the Christ. The cross is the most obvious symbol that represents Jesus and so it makes perfect sense to me. One thing that makes me love Oklahoma City is the fact that we still have people that are brave enough to display the cross on a prominent building. My support of this is not to bash on anyone else, or any other cause but I am very thankful every time I see that cross. No offense toward anyone in this thread but just wanted to voice my support for the owners of a private property to display this cross.