Classen Curve

[soonerguru]

Wow. I don't think the CC is looking for you as a customer...totally different demographic, obviously. You probably need to keep going to the outlet mall or Dollar Tree.

You're just an ass. If you think I wouldn't shop at a quality upscale retail destination, you're clueless. What else can I say? You deride people for "ad hominem attacks," and then you suggest I shop at Dollar Tree? Wow. What a jerk you must be in real life.

[soonerguru]

Which ones? Uptown Kids? Please, I can't stop laughing. That lame running store? You can't be serious. Balliett's is very nice, I'll admit. Not much else.

[soonerguru]

I think the economy happening the way that it did had a lot to do with it, just as the space was coming online everything cratered and retail went into a big contraction mode. I think that combined with bigger plans for the area might have made the early adopter types hesitant to move in there. I know of about 10 or so stores in the high end Phase I section of The Domain that have folded for various reasons and that doesn't include stores like Rheul or Martin+Osa that were shut down entirely by their parent companies. Some like the grocery that was open when our offices moved in there (Feb 2008) were just too early, there wasn't enough office or apartment tenants at the time to make it viable, it would probably be a different thing now with Phase II finished and many more apartment buildings and tenants in there.

Isn't The Domain way the hell out in the middle of nowhere in Northwest Austin?

[betts]

On A Whim, B D Home, Steven Gilesas well. I shop at them all. It's close enough to NH Plaza and Western shops that I can hit them all. When Anthro opens the best shopping in town will be in a one mile stretch.

[soonerguru]

On A Whim, B D Home, Steven Gilesas well. I shop at them all. It's close enough to NH Plaza and Western shops that I can hit them all. When Anthro opens the best shopping in town will be in a one mile stretch.

These are decent stores, but they're not going to ignite a retail revolution. On a Whim was simply relocated from Western. B D Home is nice but very limited. These are total niche stores and overall the "curve" lacks any retail identity. It is anything but vibrant, but I suppose it provides a 30-minute diversion for the Housewives of Nichols Hills.

[soonerguru]

On A Whim, B D Home, Steven Gilesas well. I shop at them all. It's close enough to NH Plaza and Western shops that I can hit them all. When Anthro opens the best shopping in town will be in a one mile stretch.

And you'll have to drive from one stretch to the other, because the Einsteins who developed it decided we needed another series of strip shopping centers meandering for approximately a mile (next to a cemetery).

[betts]

Soonerguru, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you. There will come a time, and I'm not sure when, that the Curve is full and retail is hopping there. It already adds a lot of variety to shopping options on Western. But, we've got this shopping mall mentality here. Western has some of the most unique shopping in the city. Until Anthropologie comes along, it's completely chainless. Balliet's is an anchor tenant of sorts, but I don't think you need anchor tenants. From Heritage Shoes (or Hoffman furniture on 36th, depending on whether you would ever walk into Hoffman furniture) all the way up to Discoveries near Wilshire there are a great variety of shops from which to choose. You can have lunch all along Western as well, with some of the better restaurants in the city, most of them also completely original.

I believe Western is due for a makeover a little ala Project 180. But, if I were in charge, I have a Western Hoppa Bus that simply travels between Wilshire and 36th and stops on every other streetcorner. I'd call it "The Shops on Western" or some such thing. The stores on Western already have a "Wednesday on Western" promotion and I'd tie it in too. With well-marked stops, I think it would be a hit and would probably encourage even more retail to locate there.

Classen Curve doesn't have to be the most wonderfully designed center in the world, as long as it has shops and restaurants people want to go to. And, I suspect that as Aubrey continues to buy land, it will eventually look much more like a square than a strip. It's a long walk from the bottom of Utica Square to the Saks. It's a long walk between stores in Chelsea. I've spent an entire day shopping in Chelsea and have covered a vast amount of territory. Same with Bucktown in Chicago. It's more attitude than distance.

[bluedogok]

Isn't The Domain way the hell out in the middle of nowhere in Northwest Austin?

At one time it probably was but not anymore, it is about 9 miles north of downtown. It was a brownfield redevelopment of the former IBM manufacturing campus that was built in the 70's off Mopac just north of 183 and was being touted as "Austin's Second Downtown" (what a crock). Most of the homes within 5 miles were built in the 70-80's, the ones southeast of 183/Mopac in the 50-60's, I know because I have been looking at some in the area. "Way out in NW Austin is Cedar Park/Leander, which really isn't that far out now, I also know a bunch of people who live out that way. The same as OKC, we have a lot of pockets of empty land between developments out that way but they are slowly filling in.

[semisimple]

Isn't The Domain way the hell out in the middle of nowhere in Northwest Austin?

No, the Domain is in a well-established and developed area close to the Arboretum and a cluster of tech companies. By comparison the other big lifestyle center here in the Austin area, Hill Country Galleria, does feel like it's "way the hell out in the middle of nowhere."

[Popsy]

I have heard, or perhaps am starting a rumor that possibly Aubrey is going to hijack about a thrid of the streetcar fund to put streetcars in his development to connect the whole project. My thoughts are this might not be a bad plan as at least that part of the steetcar project would have decent ridership as opposed to the line that would run up Robinson or to the Health Sciences Center. With all that Aubrey has done for the city I don't see him having a problem swaying the city council, except for the squirily guy that is trying to build a political reputation for the purpose of running for congress as soon as possible by making bogus and unfounded allegations against city leaders and people that actually make something happen.

[mcca7596]

Yep, I think you're starting an unfounded rumor.

[ljbab728]

I have heard, or perhaps am starting a rumor that possibly Aubrey is going to hijack about a thrid of the streetcar fund to put streetcars in his development to connect the whole project. My thoughts are this might not be a bad plan as at least that part of the steetcar project would have decent ridership as opposed to the line that would run up Robinson or to the Health Sciences Center. With all that Aubrey has done for the city I don't see him having a problem swaying the city council, except for the squirily guy that is trying to build a political reputation for the purpose of running for congress as soon as possible by making bogus and unfounded allegations against city leaders and people that actually make something happen.

There will be a second coming of the French Revolution if that happens. LOL

[okcustu]

Betts, I'm in between your opinion and soonerguru's. I think the big difference between Utica that sooner is lamenting is that there are few trees and in terms of layout it is a gussied-up strip, not an outdoor mall with parking on the outside and a neighborhood feel. The tenants aren't groundbreaking; but I think they're important in proving to the luxury retailers we all so desire, that we Okies can support upscale retail.

[okcustu]

But I love your idea of the buses, they should run late though for the bar crawl crowd!

[shawnw]

But I love your idea of the buses, they should run late though for the bar crawl crowd!

Agreed. I've wanted shuttle buses directly linking the hot spots (bricktown, downtown, midtown, plaza, classen circle, western, etc), until a streetcar can replace them, for the longest time...

[Larry OKC]

And you'll have to drive from one stretch to the other, because the Einsteins who developed it decided we needed another series of strip shopping centers meandering for approximately a mile (next to a cemetery).

Never fear (or maybe we should)...I heard that they are planning on buying the cemetery and telling everyone they relocated the graves. But along the lines of Poltergeist, they only moved the markers, building employee housing on the spot. As Carol Anne would say, "They're here". [evil maniacal laughter]

[Patrick]

I have to somewhat agree with soonerguru. Classen Curve simply doesn't have enough space there to amount to anything significant, other than a small upscale strip center. You can't even begin to compare it to upscale lifestyle centers like The Grove in LA, or even Utica Square in Tulsa. I think Chesapeake keeps hoping to make CC comparable to those, but I just don't see it happening. Shoot, Springcreek Plaza in Edmond is far better than CC. Overall, I think CC is way overrated, and always will be.

[BoulderSooner]

I have to somewhat agree with soonerguru. Classen Curve simply doesn't have enough space there to amount to anything significant, other than a small upscale strip center. You can't even begin to compare it to upscale lifestyle centers like The Grove in LA, or even Utica Square in Tulsa. I think Chesapeake keeps hoping to make CC comparable to those, but I just don't see it happening. Shoot, Springcreek Plaza in Edmond is far better than CC. Overall, I think CC is way overrated, and always will be.

pretty soon CC will have 2 more fairly large buildings that will make it less of a strip .. and make it much more walkable

[onthestrip]

pretty soon CC will have 2 more fairly large buildings that will make it less of a strip .. and make it much more walkable

Hopefully they'll realize these new building need some depth. As fascinating as his work may be, Rand Elliot is no retail specialist.

[Pete]

With all the property they own, I'll never understand why they decided to try and make this area a big retail location. They've done about as well as the limitations of the site will allow but why acquire/develop this property at all? It was a hidden residential neighborhood with little traffic -- I didn't even know it was there.

My only thought is they were hoping to get their NH Plaza plans started sooner than has turned out to be the case, and needed a place to move retail tenants so they could totally redo the Plaza and bring in lots of national retailers.

Now, you have this funny little strip center with no real street exposure and it's really difficult to walk around it. I know this will change a bit when they expand one more street south, but still it's very awkward. And it's completely disjointed from their campus and the Triangle area with Whole Foods. I'm quite sure their employees get in their cars and drive to the CC restaurants for lunch; not sure they could walk if they wanted to.

And no matter where they build housing eventually, people won't be able to walk to CC from there either.


Why not develop the area bounded by Western, 63rd and Grand into full-on retail with a hotel (long rumored) then redevelop NH Plaza into a big-time lifestyle center? Why did the CC area need to be developed at all? It's a very strange location and totally detached from pretty much everything else they are doing.

[Patrick]

And what I don't get is they try to boast about it being OKC's new upscale lifestyle center, as if it's a national attraction for our city or something. Honestly, I don't see how it's any different than what Northpark Mall offers. In fact, Northpark is probably better.

[metro]

And what I don't get is they try to boast about it being OKC's new upscale lifestyle center, as if it's a national attraction for our city or something. Honestly, I don't see how it's any different than what Northpark Mall offers. In fact, Northpark is probably better.

I've never heard them say it. honestly, how often do you hear it from an official source promoting it as that? I've only heard select OKCTalkers talk it up as that. All the CC print ads and email blasts, NONE are promoting it as you describe.

[Patrick]

I've never heard them say it. honestly, how often do you hear it from an official source promoting it as that? I've only heard select OKCTalkers talk it up as that. All the CC print ads and email blasts, NONE are promoting it as you describe.

Just read the 2011 OKC Visitor's Guide. It talks it up like it's the reason to come visit OKC! Afterall, it's north central OKC's dream upscale shopping destination! LOL!

[Rover]

And what I don't get is they try to boast about it being OKC's new upscale lifestyle center, as if it's a national attraction for our city or something. Honestly, I don't see how it's any different than what Northpark Mall offers. In fact, Northpark is probably better.

If you are talking about Northpark Mall in OKC, you have to be kidding. NP is dead and dull.

[LakeEffect]

If you are talking about Northpark Mall in OKC, you have to be kidding. NP is dead and dull.

Northpark is almost completely leased (25,000 or so sq ft left), and it's full of high-end, local shops. Hardly dead and dull.