Friends for a Better Boulevard

[jn1780]

You can't do it..the grade would be at 45% after clearance over the railroad tracks. Also, Reno is closed east of Agnew right now while they're tearing out the steel beams over the street and tracks.

And thats just for the eastbound ramp. The westbound ramp is in the completely wrong spot to have an intersection at Reno and there is even less room between Reno and the railroad tracks.


Its too late to do anything about this particular stretch from Penn to Western. In the future, this stretch can be converted to be grade level. That is if if an investment is made to remove the big mound of dirt the road will sit on. It also depends if the elevated bridge starting at western can be removed from the plans.

Note: Connecting to Reno would have been easy if this was the plan from the get go and the orientation of the ramps were set to intersect Reno futher east where there is more room.

[LandRunOkie]

Its too late to do anything about this particular stretch from Penn to Western. In the future, this stretch can be converted to be grade level. That is if if an investment is made to remove the big mound of dirt the road will sit on.

So you have resigned to the fate of Oklahoma City having the world's shortest boulevard? Because anything not at grade just isn't a boulevard. Some real Orwellian mind tricks Cornett/Couch/Wenger are playing. People have to wonder if it would have turned out differently with Shadid as mayor.

[OKCisOK4me]

So you have resigned to the fate of Oklahoma City having the world's shortest boulevard? Because anything not at grade just isn't a boulevard. Some real Orwellian mind tricks Cornett/Couch/Wenger are playing. People have to wonder if it would have turned out differently with Shadid as mayor.

Have you not been down there? He's saying that from the ramps to just north of Reno, where it connects into the old I-40 alignment, that it's too late for anything to be done.

It's not too late to do anything east of there, such as lowering the berm to ground level. I think if ODOT and the city were smart they could do this, install a traffic circle and keep everything on the ground except for the portion just to the east of the riverboat canal. But of course, they have to make engineering hard.

[jn1780]

So you have resigned to the fate of Oklahoma City having the world's shortest boulevard? Because anything not at grade just isn't a boulevard. Some real Orwellian mind tricks Cornett/Couch/Wenger are playing. People have to wonder if it would have turned out differently with Shadid as mayor.

Its already 70% built. Good luck to you if you want to try to campaign to have those newly built piers demolished.

[jn1780]

This is modifying the "slip lane" idea that Steve posted on his blog.

There are three intersections Western, Reno, and Lee. Right turn only lanes will allow Eastbound traffic to go south on Classen and Shartel. Westbound traffic has right turn only lanes that allow traffic to go north on Classen and Shartel. Lee takes over some of the duties that Shartel had.

And really you can use your imagination on what type of interchange is at Reno could be traditional, roundabout, etc.

[CaptDave]

The only bridge piers that were there when I last went by were the flyover from I40 East over to the north side of the interstate. It would be silly to demolish something already built, that is why I hope(d) that flyover could be used to intersect with Reno. It may not be a workable solution, but it would get the darn boulevard out of the sky which is my primary goal.

Anything less than that is a loss in my opinion, and we can talk about roundabouts, etc when the detailed plans for the intersections are designed. I like the idea of using roundabouts where appropriate - I even thought if my idea was feasible, maybe the roundabout adjacent to the arena, CC, and Park could be part of the design. I am trying to think of ways that will keep the majority of the boulevard at ground level in its entirety.

[jn1780]

The only bridge piers that were there when I last went by were the flyover from I40 East over to the north side of the interstate. It would be silly to demolish something already built, that is why I hope(d) that flyover could be used to intersect with Reno. It may not be a workable solution, but it would get the darn boulevard out of the sky which is my primary goal.

Anything less than that is a loss in my opinion, and we can talk about roundabouts, etc when the detailed plans for the intersections are designed. I like the idea of using roundabouts where appropriate - I even thought if my idea was feasible, maybe the roundabout adjacent to the arena, CC, and Park could be part of the design. I am trying to think of ways that will keep the majority of the boulevard at ground level in its entirety.

Eventually, those recycled bridges along the "elevated berm" will have to be replaced and that would be a great time to lower everything between Penn and Western. Once the bridge structure between Western and Walker gets built though it will be there for a Loooong time.....

We have to pick our battles and that's where it has to be: Western to Walker.

[CaptDave]

I agree on the primary battle, but always look for alternatives that may help us in achieving the main goal.

[Urban Pioneer]

Just watched Bob on news 9. Eric looks like he needs some sleep. Lol

[CaptDave]

Probably catching hell from all directions.....and now they are using traffic after Thunder games as a "top priority" to justify the capacity they claim is required? (That was the last quote from Wenger stated by Christina Eckert.)

[betts]

Even if every person who attended a Thunder game used the boulevard, and most won't because there is very little parking adjacent to the boulevard, that's only 18,000 people, most of whom are sharing the car with at least one other person. So, we're down to 9,000 cars max for 10 to 20 minutes. Then, I would guess well over half of the people attending a Thunder game live north of the Chesapeake Arena and will use the Broadway Extension to get home. The 25 mph speed limit will discourage many others from using it. I would be shocked if anywhere near a thousand cars would utilize the boulevard to get home from a Thunder game.

There are 41 home games, which means that 324 days of the year you don't even have that kind of traffic.

[soonerguru]

Wenger is really digging in on this issue. It's obvious he's not considering ANY alternatives. Who's pulling his strings (besides Couch)? Clay Bennett? Cornett? The mind wanders.

[Steve]

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-legislato...rticle/3696821

http://newsok.com/boulevard-fight-re...rticle/3696824

[CaptDave]

Just another weak, disingenuous justification for a poor design when there are obviously better alternatives - makes no sense and is unfortunate. I do not envy Mr Wenger at all.

[soonerguru]

We need a new City Manager -- one who will listen to constituent concerns. The tail is wagging the dog right now. If the City Council has any dignity, it will give Couch the smackdown tomorrow. It's absurd that we have major-league ambitions as a city and yet our city manager has no apparent concern for sensible urban planning and is clueless when it comes to promoting economic development.

[Plutonic Panda]

http://www.news9.com/story/19152202/...levard-project

News 9 Article

[Spartan]

We need a new City Manager -- one who will listen to constituent concerns. The tail is wagging the dog right now. If the City Council has any dignity, it will give Couch the smackdown tomorrow. It's absurd that we have major-league ambitions as a city and yet our city manager has no apparent concern for sensible urban planning and is clueless when it comes to promoting economic development.

You guys know I want to see Couch gone more than anyone on here, but I'll be honest - I don't know how much of a finger to point at him when I go and speak tomorrow, because contrary to popular opinion, I actually try to be extremely polite and tactful in person. Cornett does a lot of things that tick me off but I'm always very gracious, even if he cuts me off and suggests I give up another Tuesday morning next week...

It is more difficult for me to call for the guy to be fired with him staring right down at me than it is for me to make a damn-good argument on here or on my blog.

[BoulderSooner]

Also below grade (up to 8 feet) from somewhere east of Robinson to Compress or Oklahoma.

keep in mind that the entire road in both directions will be lowered including the sidewalks on the west side of the rail road bridge... and also only 1 corner of that intersection is develop able and that side will be the level of the street as well ..

east of the rail road bridge north and south of the blvd could also be lowered if it was to be developed to be right next to the road ..

so the "below grade" is not really a big deal

[BoulderSooner]

This is an idea that just occurred to me looking at that map. What about merging the boulevard with Reno just east of Classen (?) and connecting Reno with I-40 at Penn. Then restore the street grid in the old I-40 right of way directly north of this merged section and sell that land off for redevelopment.

This would do several things:
1) reduce the costs significantly
2) completely eliminate the raised road debate
3) provide the city with some revenue from the sale of the land
4) provide the traffic counts the Market district needs to develop, and
5) leave enough funding to really make the boulevard section fit the ideal we were all promised.

Thoughts??

that would not reduce cost .. a good part of that portion of the blvd does not need to be rebuilt

the city doesn't own the land that would be sold the state does

[CaptDave]

the city doesn't own the land that would be sold the state does

Since the state is going to hand it over to the city once the road is built, is it not a safe assumption they will do so even if the boulevard is shifted slightly south? I still think cost would be reduced by combining that portion of Reno and the Blvd - and I may be incorrect in that assumption. This idea may not be workable in totality, but parts of it could be an at-grade alternative to another elevated freeway.

[Larry OKC]

For what its worth, from Mr. Wenger's reply to my question:

The information that will be presented to the City Council tomorrow I believe will be very helpful in understanding the overall timeline of the Boulevard project. The relocation of I-40/boulevard project actually began in 1995 with a Project Study, and progressed with a series of reports including Environmental Impact Studies in 1998 and a Record of Decision by the Federal Highway Administration in May 2002. The Record of Decision which includes a project description is as follows:

"The selected alternative will provide a six-lane at-grade boulevard in the existing I-40 right-of-way from east of the Union Pacific tracks at the I-235 interchange to west of Walker Avenue. From west of Walker to Western Avenue, the existing I-40 bridge structure will be rehabilitated. From Western Avenue, west to Agnew Avenue, the existing facility will be converted to a divided boulevard."

I believe the mis-understanding of the at-grade boulevard is in this statement. Elevated portions have always been planned, but as a part of the current design process, the City recognizes that many things have changed in the last 10 years. Development in downtown Oklahoma City has progressed tremendously with the completion of the original MAPS projects, private development projects have occurred throughout downtown, Project 180 work is progressing and now the MAPS 3 projects are beginning. We are working closely with ODOT to ensure the new boulevard meets the City's current and future needs while promoting future development, walkability and raising the quality of downtown. ODOT has been very responsive to the City and our requests to evaluate a number of design options, and no decisions on the final design have been made. They have also suspended work on several areas of the project at the City's request to allow more time for the consideration of additional options and further evaluation. We fully expect to consider all possibilities, and the final design to be the best solution for each of the boulevard sections to be constructed.

My reading of his quoted description makes it sound like it is at grade, then elevated, then back at grade (but divided)???

[Larry OKC]

This is an idea that just occurred to me looking at that map. What about merging the boulevard with Reno just east of Classen (?) and connecting Reno with I-40 at Penn. Then restore the street grid in the old I-40 right of way directly north of this merged section and sell that land off for redevelopment.

This would do several things:
1) reduce the costs significantly
2) completely eliminate the raised road debate
3) provide the city with some revenue from the sale of the land
4) provide the traffic counts the Market district needs to develop, and
5) leave enough funding to really make the boulevard section fit the ideal we were all promised.

Thoughts??

I am with you and have suggested that for a few years now...the response back from the City, has been....well...what we have seen in the thread.

[kevinpate]

No need to point a finger Spartan, nor any need to call for someone's head on a pike. Either would be quite counter-productive.
When yer up to yer arse in gators, it may be hard to remember the mission is to drain the swamp, but just stay focused on the mission - a better blvd., at grade, that permits new and exciting opportunities for development and growth that just can't occur with having a blvd only at a few blocks by the arena, park and cc due to what is already being established there. OKC has seen what an elevated barrier does. There is no need to compound that mistake by keeping a large portion of the roadway as elevated.

As to Thunder traffic being a priority, oh ferdaluvofmickneric already! It's a city of hundreds of thousands who need good access 365 days a year, not 40 odd evenings for 30 minutes or so. It's too silly a suggestion to be treated seriously by the council, or even team ownership for that matter, and it ought to be dismissed outright as a mistake and nothing more.

Again, drain the swamp. If the gators later die from the change in their natural habitat, it happens, but that is not the goal de jure.

[BDK]

Please update this thread with impressions from the meeting ASAP. I'm out of town and regrettably couldn't make it down for the meeting. I will absolutely be there in August, even if I have to skip class.

[BoulderSooner]

Please update this thread with impressions from the meeting ASAP. I'm out of town and regrettably couldn't make it down for the meeting. I will absolutely be there in August, even if I have to skip class.

don't know if you have internet access today .. but you can watch online at OKC.gov