Stage Center

[sroberts24]

What "something amazing" do you think this land could be developed into?? Sounds like what you want is...cookie cutter development.

Sounds like anybody who disagrees with you, you try to make sound like an incompetent moron.

What about an urban skyscraper that was a mix of hotel/residential with a retail store fronts is "Cookie Cutter"? Especially in OKC, come to think of it, there is nothing here that fits that criteria. And the fact that you would twist what I said into "Cookie Cutter" just shows that if it isn't your opinion it doesn't matter! If something like that were to be located at the former ford dealership site you would love it. But that is no longer an option and I believe this is the next best place. Is that ok with you that I openly state my opinion?

http://www.skyscrapercity.com//showthread.php?t=365759
Post #1 and #8 on this page is what I want to see.

[Pete]

“Nothing will be permanently changed,” Karim said.

Zeeck said the proposal to be submitted Wednesday will likely not meet one key requirement of the request for proposals — evidence of financing. The request was advertised in December and Zeeck and Karim did not begin work until earlier this month. Zeeck said she has been approached by a family foundation and a second potential donor about financially supporting the project, but the group did not have a plan to present the donors until Sunday.

[UnFrSaKn]

http://www.skyscrapercity.com//showthread.php?t=365759
Post #1 and #8 on this page is what I want to see.

[OklahomaNick]

The article today on NewsOK basically makes it sound like they want to keep it EXACTLY like it is. However in my opinion it definitely needs modernistic updates. Don't forget that this is in a flood zone.

[BDP]

If something like that were to be located at the former ford dealership site you would love it. But that is no longer an option and I believe this is the next best place.

Why is it better than the empty lot next door?

[UnFrSaKn]

Saving Johansen’s Stage Center

http://archrecord.construction.com/n...en-Theater.asp

[wschnitt]

The only real hope is that a corporation or two or three steps up big time. I know they are looking to sell naming rights.

Dollhouse Burlesque Okc Children's Museum

[OKCTalker]

The problem with nonprofits owning their own real estate is that they don't know how to budget for capital expenditures, and usually lack expertise to manage/maintain the facility. They would be far better served by writing a rent check each month and leaving maintenance to a property owner. If they are well connected, they can find someone to buy and lease back the building to them, many times on favorable terms. In this case - Stage Center - it sounds like two young, creative and well connected people are searching for that person, but he hasn't been found. He simply may not exist.

[Snowman]

The introduction I saw on this seems so out of left field. Like they have realized that the arts council has given up on it and they are looking for any other possible use that could keep it open. While it has been compared to child's toys on the outside the inside has been totally the opposite; brutalist, dark and almost depressing.

Plus the plan for the building handling flooding is making improvements to the basement seems absurd, invest tens of millions of dollars in a building that will probably contain a couple million dollars worth of items with some of the items not replaceable and they still be at elevated risk of direct, indirect water damage or mold.

[betts]

The introduction I saw on this seems so out of left field. Like they have realized that the arts council has given up on it and they are looking for any other possible use that could keep it open. While it has been compared to child's toys on the outside the inside has been totally the opposite; brutalist, dark and almost depressing.

Plus the plan for the building handling flooding is making improvements to the basement seems absurd, invest tens of millions of dollars in a building that will probably contain a couple million dollars worth of items with some of the items not replaceable and they still be at elevated risk of direct, indirect water damage or mold.

You can do anything to an interior. Dark and depressing can become light and airy with the right lighting and wall coverings. And what the building contains compared to what is spent renovating it is a nonissue as well. There are many buildings that cost far more to build and are worth far more than what they contain. I consider the Stage Center a piece of sculpture, a relief from the dreary uniformity of downtown buildings. Even if they're decorated, downtown buildings are subtle and fairly monotonous. There is nothing subtle about the Stage Center. It is eye relief, to me. We all see things different ways, and have to appreciate that that possibility exists.

As far as amelioration of the flooding problem, that has to be doable, or the project will not stand a chance.

[kevinpate]

Why is it better than the empty lot next door?

Maybe I have my wires all crossed, but isn't the lot next door already tightly locked down as the location for the downtown grade school?

[krisb]

As a father of three children and a family therapist, this project wins my approval. Downtown needs activity and people even more than dense structures. What a way to add life and energy to this otherwise dead piece of real estate.

[BoulderSooner]

Maybe I have my wires all crossed, but isn't the lot next door already tightly locked down as the location for the downtown grade school?

yes it is

[BDP]

Maybe I have my wires all crossed, but isn't the lot next door already tightly locked down as the location for the downtown grade school?

OK. Then there's directly south and southwest of it, not much there. There's a ton of space at main and Dewey, really pretty much Main between dewey and Shartel is nothing. Go further north and there is a ton of space that isn't even being used for parking lots. Basically, there is a ton of empty space on the west side just sitting there and we want to tear down one of the most unique structures we have so we can preserve all that space? Is there some sort of perception issue where developers in Oklahoma City can only visualize something where there is already something? Of course, that assumes the lot would be developed quickly after demolition, which, again, would be weird given all the ample development opportunity that currently exists and nothing is being done with that.

[Just the facts]

As a father of three children and a family therapist, this project wins my approval. Downtown needs activity and people even more than dense structures. What a way to add life and energy to this otherwise dead piece of real estate.

Wouldn't you rather see $30 million go into exhibits and activities instead of concrete and sheet metal? The 'building' shouldn't suck up all the funds.

[krisb]

In the case of a children's museum, the architecture becomes the main draw. I am trusting that if this is a needed and valuable project the finances will take care of themselves.

[SoonerDave]

In the case of a children's museum, the architecture becomes the main draw. I am trusting that if this is a needed and valuable project the finances will take care of themselves.

Then why bother with the children's museum?

Why on earth would any sane businessman possibly drawn to support the idea of a children's museum throw $30M at a project, knowing up front that the overwhelming majority of that money would go into a black hole, designed to resuscitate a decrepit, poorly conceived building that has already caused immeasurable damage to its most recent tenants? Why on earth wouldn't that same civic-minded businessman take that $30M and find a brand new place to build a world's class museum from scratch, knowing that 100% of the funds were going to the museum, not to a money pit perpetuated by a well-intentioned but thoroughly misguided sense of philanthropy?

And let's not forget the other side of this coin - what happens if someone DOES pony up the money to fund this project, only to find out this particular artichoke offers layer-after-layer of still more unexpected problems entailing still more expense? Or to find itself as the signature sponsor for a facility just before the next-iteration disaster befalls the building and victimizes yet another civic organization?

Why should any local philanthropic group, such as a children's museum organization, be compelled to put their future in the hands of the vagaries of this old building? If we really cared about such a project, we'd create something wonderful and new for the kids... not for the folks whose true motive is nothing more than to prop up a crumbling disaster of a structure.

[Just the facts]

Most kids don't care about architecture and that is the fundamental problem with this proposal. A children's museum should be about kids, not about saving a building from a wrecking ball. As I said earlier, it is too bad an otherwise noble cause is being subjugated to saving a building. OKC could easily build a world class Children's Museum for half the cost of just getting stage center in good enough condition to have the orange warning sticker taken off the doors. It is such a shame that money in this instance would be spent on concrete and sheet metal instead of hands on activities for the children the whole projected is supposedly being done for. I hate to use the term 'human shield', especially when discussing children, but this seems to be getting pretty close to it in my view.

With all the vacant land around downtown wouldn't it make much more sense to build from the ground up, have a better facility, and save $20 million in the process?

[foodiefan]

. . . I am trusting that if this is a needed and valuable project the finances will take care of themselves.

Unfortunately, this is not always the case especially in a troubled economy. . . although I suppose "needed" is a debatable qualifier.

[krisb]

I'm not married to the proposal, but do think it's a worthy last ditch effort to "wed" the interests of the community and the preservationists. The project designers see value in the architecture and its potential to capture the attention of Oklahoma City children and families. I am happy for the spirit of preservation, despite the varied opinions over its design merit.

[SoonerDave]

I'm not married to the proposal, but do think it's a worthy last ditch effort to "wed" the interests of the community and the preservationists. The project designers see value in the architecture and its potential to capture the attention of Oklahoma City children and families. I am happy for the spirit of preservation, despite the varied opinions over its design merit.

I know I've been very harsh about this project, but believe it or not I'm an advocate of sensible restoration and preservation efforts. The restoration of the old Central High School was a wonderful effort. Many of our other older buildings are receiving a similar treatment. But I also believe at some point the cause of preservation must yield to the practical, albeit ugly, realities of the costs and physical limitations of reasonable restoration. Given the burden on the city (and to its most recent tenants) this property has become, I personally believe this particular project has pole vaulted beyond the scope and breadth of reason, and the time has come for the city to realize a new future for this property.

[betts]

There are obviously two schools of thought on Stage Center and both are opinions.

[Just the facts]

There are obviously two schools of thought on Stage Center and both are opinions.

I guess that depends on what is trying to be accomplished; building a children's museum or saving stage center. If the goal is a children's museum then spending $20 to $30 million fixing Stage Center should be a non-starter.

If money is not an issue then pour the $30 million into FNC and put it there. 30 floors of fun and education.

[Snowman]

Plus didn't they say it would take 30 million to make it a theater again, if it is a children's museum how are you going to work the large amount of slope from the theater seats out in a way that does not cost more?

[betts]

Maybe we should see what the architects propose.