Classen Curve

[Pete]

Yes, connecting CC with the Triangle and surrounding area is going to be a challenge.

That part of it does not seem to have been very well planned out.

[betts]

Yes, connecting CC with the Triangle and surrounding area is going to be a challenge.

That part of it does not seem to have been very well planned out.

That's why I'd like to see a big wide underground underneath the Grand/Classen corner. It would make it a simple stroll between the two.

[dankrutka]

I love the architecture of CC, especially because it's actually something different for unique for OKC.

[Pete]

I think once CHK has more development in place, CC will look even better. You can see the Triangle is already a bit of a bridge between it and their campus, at least from a style perspective.

I'm sure when they add a hotel, more retail, build out the eastside of their campus and redevelop NH Plaza, there will be a very large area with a great blend of traditional and modern elements. And the way CHK spares no expense, you know it will be first class.

[jdcf]

I'm not even sure that one can walk right now from Balliets to On a Whim without going out on Western. Last time we were there, there were not even sidewalks along Grand.

[Spartan]

I think there are sidewalks now, but I could be wrong. I know they weren't along Classen for a while, and then they added them right before the opening literally overnight.

And CHK is still acquiring properties further south of 58th, so there will be more development there as well.

I see CC as part of a much larger development, not a development in itself.

I think this is the case.

[betts]

They've been working on sidewalks the last week or so. I drive up there every so often to check on the Anthropologie store. Sounds like they still plan on opening in February, which is a shame. They could have that building done in a couple of weeks if they really wanted to. I'm not sure why they don't want to open prior to Christmas.

[Pete]

betts, I suspect that the hold up is Anthropologie, in that they probably have other stores in their queue that are a higher priority for whatever reason.

I'm sure this is the case with Whole Foods too, as we are well over a year into that construction and they still have a long ways to go.

I think CHK is deliberately going slow with the shells to coincide with the hand-off for tenant finish, and they need their own teams to do a lot of that work.


Just contrast Whole Foods with Sunflower at 63rd & May. The latter will be open in a fraction of the time not only because the shell was already there, but because this site was clearly a priority and they immediately threw tons of resources at getting it done.

Near me, I saw an entire mall constructed and fully occupied by about 100 tenants in around 9 months, and that included carving most the property out of the side of a mountain! It's all about motivation and priorities.

[redrunner]

It's not irrelevant if your a business owner who is seen as having a poor attitude on a public forum, in which you have a store in discussed development. Sounds like your bitter CC isn't meeting your expectations.

Those are all false assumptions. I would suggest you know what you're talking about before making stuff up. You of all people have the worst attitude on this forum.

[metro]

Those are all false assumptions. I would suggest you know what you're talking about before making stuff up. You of all people have the worst attitude on this forum.

Still you have neither confirmed nor denied assumptions, leaving one to wonder what you have to hide

[Pete]

metro, pretty sure someone asked the same thing some time ago and he said his name was just a coincidence.

[redrunner]

Metro was actually the one that asked me a while back. Moving on!

[soonerguru]

After visiting the new outlet mall, it seems fairly obvious that Mr. McClendon and perhaps his architect should have sought input from people who actually are skilled in developing retail shopping destinations. The difference is fairly extreme in execution.

[Rover]

After visiting the new outlet mall, it seems fairly obvious that Mr. McClendon and perhaps his architect should have sought input from people who actually are skilled in developing retail shopping destinations. The difference is fairly extreme in execution.

You aren't seriously comparing the two shopping areas are you?

[bluedogok]

The difference in styles of retail fairly extreme as well. One does not translate to the other.

If you don't like Classen Curve, don't shop there.

[soonerguru]

Nuance is lost on some people. Of course they're radically different retail destinations. The point was one was executed well, the other is half empty with a parking lot in the middle.

[bluedogok]

The Domain is shopping with parking in the middle, some rather large lots that break it up. Of course I think it is a horrible design and I see it everyday but it is full every afternoon and evening, but it is also full because development and many of the large retailers are receiving city incentives. I don't think that the existing Classen Curve was ever meant to be a mega-mall type of retail that most of the newer lifestyle centers seem to be which is an amalgamation of the traditional shopping mall and the big box mall. Since there is mostly locals in there now and the Whole Foods/Anthropologie are in a different area I see them as two distinct areas serving different market.

I not saying that it couldn't have been executed better, but it isn't exactly the worst development in existence.

[soonerguru]

The Domain is shopping with parking in the middle, some rather large lots that break it up. Of course I think it is a horrible design and I see it everyday but it is full every afternoon and evening, but it is also full because development and many of the large retailers are receiving city incentives. I don't think that the existing Classen Curve was ever meant to be a mega-mall type of retail that most of the newer lifestyle centers seem to be which is an amalgamation of the traditional shopping mall and the big box mall. Since there is mostly locals in there now and the Whole Foods/Anthropologie are in a different area I see them as two distinct areas serving different market.

I not saying that it couldn't have been executed better, but it isn't exactly the worst development in existence.

I don't think it's anything close to "the worst development in existence," nor did I say anything like that. I said it is a major disappointment, and it is. It doesn't even compete with a Utica Square, let alone the Plaza in KC or other upscale retail destinations. It's extremely disappointing, and seems to be a bit of a flop so far. Hopefully it will improve, whether or not I like the design.

This city deserves a cool, urbane, upscale retail destination, and while this one is extremely pretentious in nature, it is also not terribly well conceived -- and half empty.

[dankrutka]

Patience, young one. Patience.

[Rover]

I don't think it's anything close to "the worst development in existence," nor did I say anything like that. I said it is a major disappointment, and it is. It doesn't even compete with a Utica Square, let alone the Plaza in KC or other upscale retail destinations. It's extremely disappointing, and seems to be a bit of a flop so far. Hopefully it will improve, whether or not I like the design.

This city deserves a cool, urbane, upscale retail destination, and while this one is extremely pretentious in nature, it is also not terribly well conceived -- and half empty.

Wow. I don't think the CC is looking for you as a customer...totally different demographic, obviously. You probably need to keep going to the outlet mall or Dollar Tree.

[bluedogok]

I think the economy happening the way that it did had a lot to do with it, just as the space was coming online everything cratered and retail went into a big contraction mode. I think that combined with bigger plans for the area might have made the early adopter types hesitant to move in there. I know of about 10 or so stores in the high end Phase I section of The Domain that have folded for various reasons and that doesn't include stores like Rheul or Martin+Osa that were shut down entirely by their parent companies. Some like the grocery that was open when our offices moved in there (Feb 2008) were just too early, there wasn't enough office or apartment tenants at the time to make it viable, it would probably be a different thing now with Phase II finished and many more apartment buildings and tenants in there.

[Pete]

They are actually doing better with their leasing than I had anticipated due to everything bluedog mentioned in his post.

I think all of this would make more sense if CHK would actually share their plans for all the surrounding parcels, including the Triangle.

[onthestrip]

Wow. I don't think the CC is looking for you as a customer...totally different demographic, obviously. You probably need to keep going to the outlet mall or Dollar Tree.

I agree with soonergurus assesment is and I think it is pretty spot on. Doesnt mean Im or hes not their demographic just because we think that its kind of a flop. But I know that im part of their target demographic. Im fairly young, have expendable income yet Ive never gone there to shop, only to eat at a couple of the restaurants.

[betts]

Do people really shop based on architecture? I shop based on what merchandise is in the store. They've got some nice stores at Classen Curve.

[onthestrip]

Do people really shop based on architecture? I shop based on what merchandise is in the store. They've got some nice stores at Classen Curve.

No. At least I wouldn't think so. But that's the point, the shopping isn't there. And most of what is in there has already been around the area for awhile, only moving from one center to cc. Not sure anyone can say that cc has brought in any new exciting shopping.