Biggest needs in our city

[Turanacus]

We need sidewalks and we need to bury power lines. Huge ugly power lines are every where, in nicer places throughout the country, power lines are buried.

[diesel]

Actually, Bricktown is struggling. The businesses down there have seen profts decline, and crowds flocking to Bricktown have decreased.

I personally think the whole reason of this is because of the increased police presence... Most people that go to bricktown, go there to drink and dance and be social.. If you drink a bit to much, then you have to worry about the sharks outside waiting.. Not to say that drinking and driving is right, but it happens and so people would just rather stay at home...

[Turanacus]

I did have a cop two weekends ago jump out of his car and told me to stick my hands up, he patted me down... I said what is this about... he said that he thought I put a beer can in my pocket, it was actually my cell phone. So what if I did have a beer??? If I were a tourist visiting and something like that happened, I would be spreading the word for a long time that OKC was not a cool place to visit. The cops need to get their priorities straight and they need to realize how citizen-friendly they need to be to ensure the success of tourism in OKC.

[mranderson]

I did have a cop two weekends ago jump out of his car and told me to stick my hands up, he patted me down... I said what is this about... he said that he thought I put a beer can in my pocket, it was actually my cell phone. So what if I did have a beer??? If I were a tourist visiting and something like that happened, I would be spreading the word for a long time that OKC was not a cool place to visit. The cops need to get their priorities straight and they need to realize how citizen-friendly they need to be to ensure the success of tourism in OKC.

If a cop has probable cause to do a pat frisk, which is only for weapons, then he or she is only doing their job... No matter WHAT city you are in. They are not only protecting themselves, they are also protecting you.

I had an incident in Los Angeles (actually, Silmar) where I was assigned a room at a hotel where a man the Los Angeles Police had a warrant on had stayed the night before. They cuffed me, frisked me, and detained me until I proved I was not the guy. I said to the cop "you were doing your job, and I commend you for that." He appologized, shook my hand, and went on. I have no hard feelings, and will not speak ill of the city of Los Angeles, their suburbs or their police department.

It is unfortunate that happened (to you and me both)however, it could have been someone who WOULD cause harm they detained.

[Turanacus]

BEER, a beer can inside my coat pocket, no weapon - - he thought I was drinking a beer while walking back to my car parked near Harkins. I was chatting with a buddy of mine while we were walking, early in the evening completely sober. Very strange and completely uncalled for by the cop. I get your point. I mentioned this story because it was worth mentioning.

[y_h]

A couple of things come to mind right off the bat. First, the city needs to develop an internal office of economic development. From all I've been able to determine, the city itself has no such department and the Chamber of Commerce represents the closest such entity. That has to be changed. There is no reason why the city shouldn't have the funds to staff an office with a director whose full time job is to do nothing but find ways to promote OKC as a prime location for businesses, through the recruitment of outside businesses/industries and through the development, support, enhancement of existing and/or emerging local operations. The mayor as a figurehead can only do so much to be an ambassador for the city when it comes to recruiting outside businesses - he needs a full-time emissary. The director of economic development should be out networking, looking for opportunities to lure new businesses and industries to the area, reaching out to present specially-designed marketing materials to these companies and bringing the decisionmakers into the area to see for themselves what OKC has to offer. Furthermore, the director should be working with local banks and venture capitalists to find private money and creative financing vehicles to help bolster internal growth - the development of new businesses and industries from within the existing OKC population and possibly even the infusion of capital and/or management advice for emerging or struggling businesses who notwithstanding their present financial distress could be potential successes. Grassroots organizations/campaigns will only go so far toward the recruitment of new businesses and industries to the area. Places like Costco, Whole Foods, Nordstrom (to name three of the most popularly bandied-about names on this site) aren't going to be swayed by an influx of email from prospective shoppers. Someone with clout, hard figures and political moxie needs to be on the job to work these businesses aggressively and really sell the market. A chamber of commerce isn't an effective tool because the CoC is comprised of leaders of existing businesses which might be averse to some of the potential target businesses and industries.

Another change which I think would be beneficial is to move the Convention and Visitors Bureau away from the "annual contract" model and bring it permanently in-house within the structure of city government. Right now the CVB operates as a stand-alone agency which operates on an outsourced basis with the city. I think that degrades the necessary level of quality control. I see no reason why the mayor's office shouldn't have an official hand in overseeing the operations of this vital facet of the city's existence. There should be political accountability for the degree to which OKC is a convention and tourist destination.

These are just two major thoughts that I have on the subject. I'm going to be visiting town in a little over two weeks (can't wait - it's been 12 years!) and I'll certainly be glad to share more impressions upon my return.

[mranderson]

BEER, a beer can inside my coat pocket, no weapon - - he thought I was drinking a beer while walking back to my car parked near Harkins. I was chatting with a buddy of mine while we were walking, early in the evening completely sober. Very strange and completely uncalled for by the cop. I get your point. I mentioned this story because it was worth mentioning.

BY FEDERAL LAW a cop can only pat frisk you for weapons. There must be more to this story.

[Midtowner]

BY FEDERAL LAW a cop can only pat frisk you for weapons. There must be more to this story.

Wow.. you're a 4th amendment expert as well?

A true renaissance man!

I just got off of the phone with Justice Scalia, concurring in result, but dissenting in part.

Scalia, J. says he doesn't see anything in the Constitution which limits the officer to doing a 'frisk search' for weapons. He referred to Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, in which Chief Justice Warren (who was a good friend) held that an officer could perform a pat frisk for weapons under a broad range of circumstances. Scalia says he would expand the current understanding of the law to include suspicion of anything (which Chief Justice Warren for some reason placed the restriction you refer to). Scalia doesn't understand why men like Chief Justice Warren would build these strange exceptions into the corpus of the law.

I just got another instant message from Justice Ginsberg.

Ginsberg, J. IM'd me dissenting.

She says "I would hold that unless the officer actually saw what was supposedly being hidden, I would not entertain the thought of there being "reasonable suspicion." She further IM'd me that she didn't think police officers should ever be reasonable, therefore, she wanted them to take pictures of the guns to give evidence of the reasonable suspicion before the search was performed. She says that she would hold that the holding in Terry v. Ohio would open the floodgates on impermissible and intrusive searches by law enforcement officers who want to discriminate against women and minorities.

[mranderson]

You for one, Midtowner, if you REALLY are a law student should know search and seizure.

[Midtowner]

I didn't say you were wrong

I just said my buddy Scalia tells me he would broaden Terry while my other buddy Ginsberg would narrow it.

I can't offer legal advice to your buddy there, and the Justices have informed me than neither can they

[mranderson]

I didn't say you were wrong

I just said my buddy Scalia tells me he would broaden Terry while my other buddy Ginsberg would narrow it.

I can't offer legal advice to your buddy there, and the Justices have informed me than neither can they

Actually, I learned about the Terry decision, which if I remember correctly is Terry vs. Ohio, in the Citizens Police Academy. I had forgotten about it, but remembered it was a Supreme Court decision that was the basis of the federal law.

That is why I replied with the statement that there must be more to the story.

Either way, a cop must do his or her job. If you are not guilty, then I would think you would be glad they raised suspision.

[Midtowner]

I could go more into it, but I think we get the gist.

Of course, as a practical matter, if the cop writes the guy up for public intox after a pat down which turns up an open container, while that search might not have been legal, the defendant is more than likely just going to pay the fine and forget about it rather than hiring a lawyer to fight the charge.

Of course, if the cop arrests the guy for public intox off of an illegal search, we might have an interesting case on our hands

Most cops are not this stupid. Bricktown, however, used to have this nasty policy of hiring out-of-town officers to come in and work the area. These guys were terrible. I used to play in a band which had a regular gig down in Bricktown -- I saw these guys drinking in the bar while on duty, hitting on women, and doing all sorts of unprofessional crap (even heard one brag that he "shoots first and asks questions later).

[writerranger]

I could go more into it, but I think we get the gist.

Of course, as a practical matter, if the cop writes the guy up for public intox after a pat down which turns up an open container, while that search might not have been legal, the defendant is more than likely just going to pay the fine and forget about it rather than hiring a lawyer to fight the charge.

Of course, if the cop arrests the guy for public intox off of an illegal search, we might have an interesting case on our hands

Most cops are not this stupid. Bricktown, however, used to have this nasty policy of hiring out-of-town officers to come in and work the area. These guys were terrible. I used to play in a band which had a regular gig down in Bricktown -- I saw these guys drinking in the bar while on duty, hitting on women, and doing all sorts of unprofessional crap (even heard one brag that he "shoots first and asks questions later).

Hey, Mid.....Tell Anty boy I said hello. You guys buds too? I have a hard time keeping in touch between him and all the NFL commissioners I correspond with.

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[Midtowner]

Hey, Mid.....Tell Anty boy I said hello. You guys buds too? I have a hard time keeping in touch between him and all the NFL commissioners I correspond with.

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Write, I'm very glad that someone caught the humor of that post.

I even accurately reproduced where the justices would likely come down on the issue (although Scalia might just stick with his fanatical reverence to precedent in all things not called 'abortion')... It was a thing of beauty.

[y_h]

Write, I'm very glad that someone caught the humor of that post.

I even accurately reproduced where the justices would likely come down on the issue (although Scalia might just stick with his fanatical reverence to precedent in all things not called 'abortion')... It was a thing of beauty.

Your OCU Law School education serves you well. Somewhere Chuckles Cantrell is smiling.

[Midtowner]

I hear he's a good prof. Haven't had him yet.

[y_h]

Great prof (at least he was 15 years ago when I had him) - sense of humour drier than a Bombay Sapphire martini sans the vermouth.

But I digress . . .