NW 9th & Walker

[BoulderSooner]

Has Devon marketed or attempted to rent the retail? I was under the impression they put it in to appease the city but didn't have any intention of renting it out

the windows box place holders on the original parking garage along hudson they never had any want to build out or rent .. .. ( that retail space doesn't actually exist on the back side of those window boxes are parking spaces)

they have and are actively trying to lease the retail space in both of the BOK garages .. and have had some of that space full occasionally

[macchiato]

I think the inner metro has a retail vacancy disaster for a number of reasons, but that probably deserves it's own thread so this property doesn't get lumped into it.

[Rover]

Has Devon marketed or attempted to rent the retail? I was under the impression they put it in to appease the city but didn't have any intention of renting it out

Not having demand may have some influence on not having intention.

[HOT ROD]

I wonder why it's so hard for OKC. Other cities have success with streetfront retial in and near their downtowns, especially peer major cities and even numerous smaller ones. I supposed the smaller cities could be justified in not having much competition, but what makes other large major cities successful but not in OKC?

THAT should become an objective of the Chamber - how to densify the inner core. We have the population, no? There's rising real estate value in/near downtown, no?

Is it just that OKC isn't a walkable city? Can we change that?

To answer the earlier question, no I am not advocating vacant retail space but am trying to vision into the future where OKC is even more dense and even more densely populated in the inner core. If we are building, buildings to be permanent - it would be not be prudent to build retail on the bottom floors now even if it takes time to absorb. Again, other major cities do this; not sure why OKC is or even wants a pass. ..

[CaptDave]

The justification I usually hear for continuing to sprawl is "land is cheap here" and there is so much open land available. Of course that completely ignores the infrastructure costs and extension of police and fire services to an even larger area without a commensurate increase in tax revenue to support that infrastucture. The obviously most efficient and cost effective way to develop and grow if to fully build out the core of they city where all the necessary services already exist. It is the growth ponzi scheme trap so many municipalities have become ensnared in and is difficult to escape.

[Canoe]

I have always understood that the landowners downtown hire commercial real estate companies that set the rent based on the rent of peer cities. But when a store open they do not see the customer base to equivalent to the asking rent. So the retail spots downtown remain empty.

The owners need to lower rent and the city need to make it easier to bring some interest to the downtown city streets.

[Rover]

I have always understood that the landowners downtown hire commercial real estate companies that set the rent based on the rent of peer cities. But when a store open they do not see the customer base to equivalent to the asking rent. So the retail spots downtown remain empty.

The owners need to lower rent and the city need to make it easier to bring some interest to the downtown city streets.

It isn't some game at setting rents… there is real cost in building space and to render 20-25% of your property non income producing is very hard to get financed.

There is also the negative effect of having the most visible space in your building being dead. That does nothing to make your building space above more desirable. Who wants to live in a building tht looks dead when you walk up to it?

[Pete]

Some slides from the presentation to the Economic Development Trust:

[warreng88]

$2-$2.25/sf in midtown is great pricing. Obviously the TIF helps with that. The Spaniard, right around the corner, is leasing in the high $2/sf but has garages and things like that. Exciting to see a lot more foot traffic in the area in the coming years.

[G.Walker]

Hopefully they will change the color scheme, because that is horrid.

[burksooner]

Hopefully the apartments just to the north of this and next to Phillips Murrah release much better renders that cause them to tweak the designs of these plans.

[HFAA Alum]

Now I can be a bit of a contrarian, but I actually like the color scheme. It's different, it pops, and it does give a rather lively vibe. However, I do agree with the design and height not being as optimal as preferred. Perhaps if this was a 10-15 story complex with an adjacent parking garage providing keycard access to the building, then that would be rather nice. Just a jagged 4-story complex is so overdone in this part of town. The city needs density, and while this addresses it to a degree, it only addresses the bare minimum. People want to live in town, but limiting how many can move in while also maximizing profits for rentals can be counterproductive to the local ecosystem (I mean that in terms of the local populace).

[Pete]

That design isn't final and very similar to Level, with just more color.

I don't understand all the criticism... This looks modern and sharp, and color is always a nice alternative to the ubiquitous greige.

[warreng88]

There's a little bit of a slope from 9th to 8th. Will this be like the Edge where there are below grade apartments on the lower side?

[pickles]

It looks fine.

[OkieBerto]

It reminds me of the Classen 16 Color Scheme. At least you can reference the color section you live in. "Just park in the green section."

[Rover]

That design isn't final and very similar to Level, with just more color.

I don't understand all the criticism... This looks modern and sharp, and color is always a nice alternative to the ubiquitous greige.

Totally agree. Splashes of color are a good simple and effective tool in architecture. Never understand when people want same old, same old.

[dankrutka]

This idea that 3-4 floors isn't high enough is silly. There are so many underused lots in the core that need infill that I actually prefer 3-4 stories in most cases. It's totally appropriate to the area.

[HFAA Alum]

This idea that 3-4 floors isn't high enough is silly. There are so many underused lots in the core that need infill that I actually prefer 3-4 stories in most cases. It's totally appropriate to the area.

I guess I look at it from the standpoint of "building for the future" as opposed to "build for what you have now" because you'll always outgrow these low level developments. And given the rate that OKC is growing, I don't think this would be the optimal approach to density going forward.

[dankrutka]

I guess I look at it from the standpoint of "building for the future" as opposed to "build for what you have now" because you'll always outgrow these low level developments. And given the rate that OKC is growing, I don't think this would be the optimal approach to density going forward.

I don’t agree. Cities all over the world are filled with midrise, mixed use developments. OKC could absorb them for a hundred years. Unless you think OKC is about to turn into Shanghai, there’s no future where higher residential is necessary.

[Timshel]

Cities all over the world are filled with midrise, mixed use developments.

Not to mention, in cities that also have a substantial amount of giant buildings, the midrise, mixed use developments are almost always, especially for residents, the more enjoyable place to be. Would one rather spend a lot of time in midtown Manhattan or in the west village? I know my answer.

[Pete]

Go walk downtown or Midtown and there is very, very little foot traffic.

Most of these commercial storefronts have little to no parking in front.

We are nowhere close to having enough density to support anything but some scattered retail and restaurants.

[soonerguru]

Who wants to live in a building tht looks dead when you walk up to it?

This is a question I ask myself every time I drive by the Lift apartments. Why not offer a super sweet deal for a bakery or bistro to inject some life into your building and provide another amenity for residents?

I guess I'm just not sophisticated enough to understand.

[Rover]

This is a question I ask myself every time I drive by the Lift apartments. Why not offer a super sweet deal for a bakery or bistro to inject some life into your building and provide another amenity for residents?

I guess I'm just not sophisticated enough to understand.

One business does not activate a street.

[OkieBerto]

One business does not activate a street.

Considering who is going to build this complex, Level, Mosaic, and the Condos next door all have retail. Combined they have made a great walkable intersection that tons of people spend time in. The hope will be that other developers bring many types of housing to this location.