Pour (formerly Sanctuary)

[jerrywall]

Yeah the people most outspoken against this will probably be those such as the fine parishioners of the church at SW 54th and Blackwelder, the exact people who become outraged about things like red Starbucks cups and other manufactured controversies and will give you a dirty look if you say Happy Holidays. The people that ignored the May 3, 1999 tornado yet put a ton of energy into opposing the OKC Pride banners on Classen back in the early 2000s. It's the church that gave us JC Watts and Ralph Shortey. Those people won't be going to ANY bars, regardless of theme.

They go to bars, just not through the front door. ��

[pw405]

JRod - I've enjoyed Flashback about a dozen times, typically on Friday/Saturday night. It seems that with a few changes, it could be substantially better. Hopefully you keep these considerations in mind when planning the new establishments.

* - Why is the back patio closed? Flashback's current setup for vapers/smokers is awful, and I have personally seen customers just decide to leave after smoking because they don't want to screw with trying to re-enter (especially if there is a line).

Here's the execution plan if somebody wants to smoke/vape while spending money at Flashback:

-Make way to front, weave through line as needed,
-"check out" with the door guy (optional) (I usually let him know I'll brb if he says "have a good night", etc.
-place drinks on window sill for door guy to babysit (trust nobody will drug drink)
-go outside and crowd the entrance to the establishment (with smoke)/occasional line, while smoke wofts into the building because the door is open
(FYI, practically nobody obeys the 25' from entrance to building, especially if cold/rainy)
-"re-check-in" with door guy, so he knows you've already paid
- (re-wait in line if there is a line).

Repeat as needed, for most nicotine users, this would happen 5-10 times/night, creating substantially more door traffic than necessary.

Not that any of this is cruel/unusual, but when I see a log jam at the front of the building, a 100% vacant VIP lounge, and a back patio that is "off limits" during the busiest times of the week.. it does make one think.. "what are these guys smoking?"

*- I've never once, ever, seen a single person in the VIP lounge. The only purpose I generally see the VIP lounge serving is a room of furniture to look at before entering the restroom. I say the business would be better served to refund the people who purchased a VIP membership, make the VIP lounge open at all times, but take reservations for a private parties of ~10-20. Make the VIP games take quarters on Friday/Saturday night, hell, I dunno. Anything seems better than just sitting there empty.

*- Last weekend we got there around 9:30, it was packed. Until around 11:00PM, it seemed that it was suddenly empty. This is just more of an FYI than anything else, but if I owned the business, I would investigate why this is happening. I've never owned a bar, but to me it seems that the hours of 11:00-1:00 are often prime time to generate revenue.

I mention these things because I want to see Flashback be successful - Flashback is the perfect antidote to the experience & atmosphere that the Hall family is selling across the street. Capitalize on this difference!

[jerrywall]

I'll let him reply for himself, but I was there tonight and the conversation did cover the patio, and the crowd from across the street. Definitely seems to be stuff they're aware of and have on thier minds.

Oh, and evidently the trivia coming up is 90s movies. I plan to bring my Clueless, Empire Records, and Clerk nerdom into play in the new year.

[PhiAlpha]

Typical religious crap in OKC. OKC has some weird religious agenda which is probably why the BOK tower is the bland corporate site that it is and they didn’t rehabilitate those structures which would have propelled that area into a vibrant nightlife scene. Even a deal was made for Repiblic to move into the bus station. The tower could have been built on the parking lot next to it. But that would have created too much of a big city vibrant scene for OKC apparently. Just like concepts like this.

I love my city but I really loose hope for it sometimes when things like this constantly come up. How long before the proposed bike tour thing gets complaints for loud rap music saying bad words that you hear in every other city but in OKC the soccer moms will cover their children’s ears, complain the children are hearing bad words, there are drunks on bicycles, and they will go home and cuss out liberals. Great stuff.

I will support this place when I’m there and would love a chance to tour these bikes and patronize this bar. Let’s see what happens. I hope I’m wrong. There is just a weird religious vibe in OKC I have yet to experience in any other city of its size.

WOAH!!! PluPlan with the HOT TAKE!!!

[dankrutka]

It’s really cool for Jose to invest in OKC, open different and innovative concepts, and come here and answer questions. Really disappointed in a lot of negative and rude comments in this thread. Asking questions or constructive criticism is one thing, but blasting a name as “awful” or trashing a concept shows a lot more about a poster than anything else. If you wouldn’t say it in real life to someone’s face then don’t type it online, especially to a local investor who has a record of success and charity. Again, I’m not saying don’t bring up issues or your opinion, but consider your word choice and tone.

[jerrywall]

It’s really cool for Jose to invest in OKC, open different and innovative concepts, and come here and answer questions. Really disappointed in a lot of negative and rude comments in this thread. Asking questions or constructive criticism is one thing, but blasting a name as “awful” or trashing a concept shows a lot more about a poster than anything else. If you wouldn’t say it in real life to someone’s face then don’t type it online, especially to a local investor who has a record of success and charity. Again, I’m not saying don’t bring up issues or your opinion, but consider your word choice and tone.

Is there another thread with hidden posts that you and PP are reading. I see one post that is someone not liking the concept, and I dislike the poster's tone most of the time, but this was pretty innocuous. Plus it's ok if a concept isn't for everyone. Everything else seems pretty positive. I can't seem to find a post blasting the name as awful either? Is this a case of folks anticipating a conflict that hasn't happened yet?

[Roger S]

Is there another thread with hidden posts that you and PP are reading. I see one post that is someone not liking the concept, and I dislike the poster's tone most of the time, but this was pretty innocuous. Plus it's ok if a concept isn't for everyone. Everything else seems pretty positive. I can't seem to find a post blasting the name as awful either? Is this a case of folks anticipating a conflict that hasn't happened yet?

Post 22.

[jerrywall]

Post 22.

Meh, I guess. I don't see anything there I wouldn't say in person. It seems a reasonable post.

[pw405]

I'll let him reply for himself, but I was there tonight and the conversation did cover the patio, and the crowd from across the street...

Are you saying the patio was open, or that people were asking about why it was closed/etc?

[jerrywall]

Are you saying the patio was open, or that people were asking about why it was closed/etc?

Jose was discussing the patio with me. I mentioned that for me the time I would use it would be on nice weather days and I wanted some quieter space to have a conversation. I got the impression they are very aware of the fact that they underutilize that space and are evaluating it (and taking it into mind when looking at future endeavors).

[dankrutka]

Is there another thread with hidden posts that you and PP are reading. I see one post that is someone not liking the concept, and I dislike the poster's tone most of the time, but this was pretty innocuous. Plus it's ok if a concept isn't for everyone. Everything else seems pretty positive. I can't seem to find a post blasting the name as awful either? Is this a case of folks anticipating a conflict that hasn't happened yet?

My point isn't that everyone has to like the concepts, but just show some respect and choose your words wisely. It's a big and scary commitment to open a new establishment that requires a lot of thought, energy, and financial risk and so commments like the following are unnecessary:

“not a supporter”
“stupid risk”
“Wacky Wheelz is just...awful. makes me cringe”

If you have a concern maybe ask a question instead of posting a criticism. I just find it to be bad form.

[gopokes88]

Probably so, but people need to get over it. It's 2017. Not everything has to be sanitized to be palatable to the Baptists. If it offends people, they have the right to not go.

And they won't go.

It is a risk to build a business on something that offends a near majority of people, if not a majority of people. Politicians can survive that way, business' mostly can't. If it survives and thrives good for them, if it fails miserably then it does. That's the beauty of capitalism.

Or we can all go on insane rants like Panda.

[dankrutka]

It is a risk to build a business on something that offends a near majority of people, if not a majority of people. Politicians can survive that way, business' mostly can't. If it survives and thrives good for them, if it fails miserably then it does. That's the beauty of capitalism.

First, how do you know this "offends a near majority of people?" And second, I disagree with your description of capitalism. Niche industries can and do have success. What percentage of OKC businesses do you frequent? Most people never go to an overwhelming majority of businesses... yet, they all don't go out of business. And there are entire industries that are unpopular and "offend" people that thrive.

[JRod1980]

And they won't go.

It is a risk to build a business on something that offends a near majority of people, if not a majority of people. Politicians can survive that way, business' mostly can't. If it survives and thrives good for them, if it fails miserably then it does. That's the beauty of capitalism.

Or we can all go on insane rants like Panda.

This is the part where I ask, "How do you know it will be offensive if you haven't even seen what its about?" You are basically assuming that because its a "church themed" bar that its already offensive just because of that. Which will likely be the case/excuse for the people that will never step foot inside of it. But again if that is your opinion, you are entitled to it and that doesn't offend me one bit.

To speak to your point that it's a risk, well any business endeavor is a risk, especially in the bar industry. That's why 90% of new bars don't survive past 18 months. I can name several bars in OKC that open at the start of this year and didn't even make it to December, many of which Pete has covered on here. I had countless people tell me that FlashBack would never work in OKC, that it was "too out of the box" and here we are over 2 years later and we've had incredible business since Day 1. At the end of the day only time will tell whether or not this concept will work, but I can say that the feedback I've received to this point has been overwhelmingly positive. Many have commented how it feels very much like Portland, which I love cause Portland is one of my favorite cities and they have an incredible and very creative bar scene. To see so many people already excited about it, further motivates to deliver the best possible product to our followers.

I also want to make sure everyone doesn't misunderstand or misinterpret my response on here or take it as me being overly defensive or arrogant. I knew from the beginning there was a chance this bar would be a bit controversial and that I would likely get some blow back for it. But I've been preparing for this for a long time, I've done plenty of planning and research on how this place will look and feel and I have not doubt the people that are open-minded and can look past the name or concept will really enjoy the uniqueness of what we are creating and the growth we are trying to add to the OKC nightlife.

[JRod1980]

First, how do you know this "offends a near majority of people?" And second, I disagree with your description of capitalism. Niche industries can and do have success. What percentage of OKC businesses do you frequent? Most people never go to an overwhelming majority of businesses... yet, they all don't go out of business. And there are entire industries that are unpopular and "offend" people that thrive.

i.e. Strip Clubs, lol. Offensive yet thriving... in the Bible Belt at that, haha.

[jccouger]

As a millennial who loves to drink & who also regularly attends a small family, community oriented & financially struggling church in the inner city I love this idea and I'd love to visit. I'd also love to nominate my church as a recipient of your generosity from what will most certainly be great financial success. People who can't poke a little fun at themselves aren't my kind of people.

Best of luck!

[Colbafone]

My point isn't that everyone has to like the concepts, but just show some respect and choose your words wisely. It's a big and scary commitment to open a new establishment that requires a lot of thought, energy, and financial risk and so commments like the following are unnecessary:

“not a supporter”
“stupid risk”
“Wacky Wheelz is just...awful. makes me cringe”

If you have a concern maybe ask a question instead of posting a criticism. I just find it to be bad form.

This is Wacky Wheelz

[Colbafone]

There are 2 things I know about Jrod. 1) his ideas are clearly awesome. These 2 new bars will be a hit. And 2) he posts here, which is also awesome. There's aren't just a ton of business owners who engage us here on OKCTalk. So he has a ton of respect from me. I know he is a smart man and has a good business mind.

I say the name is awful because it reminds me of that pic I just posted of Steve Buscemi. The name Wacky Wheelz just feels like an out of touch Baby Boomer trying to infiltrate a Main Event or Dave and Busters or a Middle School or something. It's just bad.

I get the gimmick of the bar. I love the idea. I love getting people on to colorful bikes and showing off the downtown area. It's great! It WILL be successful. I just wish I had a better name to allow I to be more successful. But it's not my bar. I'm just giving my feedback on a forum.

[Colbafone]

And for the record, I would say all of this to Jrod's face, which is silly to bring up, because I am, in fact, saying this to his face anyway. That's the beauty of this forum.

[gopokes88]

This is the part where I ask, "How do you know it will be offensive if you haven't even seen what its about?" You are basically assuming that because its a "church themed" bar that its already offensive just because of that. Which will likely be the case/excuse for the people that will never step foot inside of it. But again if that is your opinion, you are entitled to it and that doesn't offend me one bit.

To speak to your point that it's a risk, well any business endeavor is a risk, especially in the bar industry. That's why 90% of new bars don't survive past 18 months. I can name several bars in OKC that open at the start of this year and didn't even make it to December, many of which Pete has covered on here. I had countless people tell me that FlashBack would never work in OKC, that it was "too out of the box" and here we are over 2 years later and we've had incredible business since Day 1. At the end of the day only time will tell whether or not this concept will work, but I can say that the feedback I've received to this point has been overwhelmingly positive. Many have commented how it feels very much like Portland, which I love cause Portland is one of my favorite cities and they have an incredible and very creative bar scene. To see so many people already excited about it, further motivates to deliver the best possible product to our followers.

I also want to make sure everyone doesn't misunderstand or misinterpret my response on here or take it as me being overly defensive or arrogant. I knew from the beginning there was a chance this bar would be a bit controversial and that I would likely get some blow back for it. But I've been preparing for this for a long time, I've done plenty of planning and research on how this place will look and feel and I have not doubt the people that are open-minded and can look past the name or concept will really enjoy the uniqueness of what we are creating and the growth we are trying to add to the OKC nightlife.

I'll answer this for you but I want you to understand it is not an attack on you or your bar. I'm simply going to convey why it's offensive without even stepping foot in the bar. I know this because some of this stuff is offensive to me as a Christian. That said I'm not your enemy here. I'm not gonna protest, go on social media rants, or tell all my friends why they shouldn't go. I'm just not your customer. You know the whole middle ground thing. I'm answering this because you seem genuinely curious.

Let's start with the entire concept, "a fun light hearted take on religion". To a Christian, there is nothing light hearted about any of this. When you die you go to heaven or hell for all eternity. And please don't come back with any if you go to this bar it means you're going to hell nonsense. Not what I'm saying at all. I'm simply conveying the frame of reference, and that is none of this is "light hearted", it's serious with very serious consequences.

A "church themed bar" is just not a good thing. It aligns with nothing in scripture. There's a million reasons why and I just don't have the time to get into them.

Serving "Holy Sangria served in a chalice" comes across as mocking communion.
"singers will don choir robes before taking the stage" mocking the act of worship.
Kinda goes against the "God is not to be mocked" verse. (Galatians 6:7) I'd rather error on the side of caution when it comes to mocking God. Particularity when it's pretty easy to just go to one of the other 384 cool bars OKC has now. I get it, others will see it as just harmless fun and they're entitled to that belief/opinion. You won't ever convince me it's anything short of mocking God. That'll be the majority of what Christians think. And no, I don't need to "try new things" I'm pretty close minded when it comes to my faith, as we were commanded to be in the world but not of it.

Last, Christians feel mocked enough as it is in the US. Whether they actually are or aren't isn't the debate, the point is they feel that way. At first read this absolutely 100% feels like the bar is mocking Christians and people will be instantly turned off, never to even try. The fact that the article even has to qualify the bar being ok and not offensive, with the phrase "a respectful take", kinda tells you all you need to know. Like yelling, "I'm the King" or "I'm not a racist, but".

Hope that answers your question. If it succeeds good for you, if it fails it'll be pretty obvious why. Let capitalism do it's thing.

[jerrywall]

This reminds me of my annual "Chocolate Jesus Haulocast" party my wife and I throw every year after Easter, using clearance Easter chocolate for fondue and infusing vodka with peeps. Maybe I could move it to the Sanctuary, lol.

[Bullbear]

This reminds me of my annual "Chocolate Jesus Haulocast" party my wife and I throw every year after Easter, using clearance Easter chocolate for fondue and infusing vodka with peeps. Maybe I could move it to the Sanctuary, lol.

That is brilliant!..

[stile99]

Some people prefer the sackcloth and ashes. Some people appreciate the wisdom behind Proverbs 15:13. Although Ecclesiastes 9:7 might be a little more pertinent to the discussion.

As for me? Pass the Deviled Eggs. Luke 11:12.

[jerrywall]

Just make sure it's an egg. ��

[bchris02]

I'll answer this for you but I want you to understand it is not an attack on you or your bar. I'm simply going to convey why it's offensive without even stepping foot in the bar. I know this because some of this stuff is offensive to me as a Christian. That said I'm not your enemy here. I'm not gonna protest, go on social media rants, or tell all my friends why they shouldn't go. I'm just not your customer. You know the whole middle ground thing. I'm answering this because you seem genuinely curious.

Let's start with the entire concept, "a fun light hearted take on religion". To a Christian, there is nothing light hearted about any of this. When you die you go to heaven or hell for all eternity. And please don't come back with any if you go to this bar it means you're going to hell nonsense. Not what I'm saying at all. I'm simply conveying the frame of reference, and that is none of this is "light hearted", it's serious with very serious consequences.

A "church themed bar" is just not a good thing. It aligns with nothing in scripture. There's a million reasons why and I just don't have the time to get into them.

Serving "Holy Sangria served in a chalice" comes across as mocking communion.
"singers will don choir robes before taking the stage" mocking the act of worship.
Kinda goes against the "God is not to be mocked" verse. (Galatians 6:7) I'd rather error on the side of caution when it comes to mocking God. Particularity when it's pretty easy to just go to one of the other 384 cool bars OKC has now. I get it, others will see it as just harmless fun and they're entitled to that belief/opinion. You won't ever convince me it's anything short of mocking God. That'll be the majority of what Christians think. And no, I don't need to "try new things" I'm pretty close minded when it comes to my faith, as we were commanded to be in the world but not of it.

Last, Christians feel mocked enough as it is in the US. Whether they actually are or aren't isn't the debate, the point is they feel that way. At first read this absolutely 100% feels like the bar is mocking Christians and people will be instantly turned off, never to even try. The fact that the article even has to qualify the bar being ok and not offensive, with the phrase "a respectful take", kinda tells you all you need to know. Like yelling, "I'm the King" or "I'm not a racist, but".

Hope that answers your question. If it succeeds good for you, if it fails it'll be pretty obvious why. Let capitalism do it's thing.

It's pretty clear that you aren't his target customer. That's fine. I think the bar will be successful. Though the culture in OKC is heavily driven by uptight, conservative Baptists, there is a large number of people who don't fall into that mold. A lot of people don't realize how large the atheist/agnostic/none community in OKC is simply because it's not very visible. Something like this will be very appealing to them as well as less uptight Christians. Like you say, let capitalism do it's thing. I am certain that this will offend less people than the bars on NW 39th do and yet they are successful.

And the Christian persecution complex is largely due to Fox News, televangelists, and Christian-targeted films such as God's Not Dead. You can't live in a place like OKC where evangelical Christianity is virtually inescapable and legitimately claim Christians are a persecuted minority.