David Boren and the B12

[ou48A]

Big 12 conference realignment is about football first and foremost but there are no teams that really move the needle for the Big 12…making departure the best option for OU.

OU should never artificially hold its self-it’s self-back from ascending to the best possible conference affiliation for the entire university. Keeping OU tied to osu is a serious strategic mistake.

If OU were able to gain B1G membership it would help advance OU academics to the maximum extent possible….. But this will only be possible if OU can demonstrate a clear path of academic improvement to the B1G. This will require passage of the states one cent sales tax and donations of at least a billion new dollars.

The increased research could create new high wage spin off jobs. We have seen how this can work with the weather industry in Norman….. Over time this would help diversify and make the local economy more prosperous…. and even help put butts in the seats at games.

For OU, B1G membership is about a lot more than just football.
But we must understand this requires an investment from our state and each OU person.

[Brownwood]

Big 12 conference realignment is about football first and foremost but there are no teams that really move the needle for the Big 12…making departure the best option for OU.

OU should never artificially hold its self-it’s self-back from ascending to the best possible conference affiliation for the entire university. Keeping OU tied to osu is a serious strategic mistake.

If OU were able to gain B1G membership it would help advance OU academics to the maximum extent possible….. But this will only be possible if OU can demonstrate a clear path of academic improvement to the B1G. This will require passage of the states one cent sales tax and donations of at least a billion new dollars.

The increased research could create new high wage spin off jobs. We have seen how this can work with the weather industry in Norman….. Over time this would help diversify and make the local economy more prosperous…. and even help put butts in the seats at games.

For OU, B1G membership is about a lot more than just football.
But we must understand this requires an investment from our state and each OU person.

ou48A: I agree with the overall message of your post and believe OU's admission to the B1G would be a tremendous benefit to the state as a whole. Academically, the B1G is much more highly regarded than the B12 and moving to the B1G would bring numerous research opportunities and ancillary industries. My question to you (and others) is: Do you believe Oklahoma, as a state, has the population and resources to support 2 world class universities ? Would we be better to focus on creating a single world class university and allow the other(s) to be regionally respectable ?

[David]

Here's a question from the outside, asked on the basis of not much detailed knowledge about the conference and what is going on. What is the problem with the Big 12 as it stands now? What needs to be solved? Reading through the thread, it sounds like the OU football games have constantly sold out crowds. If they do, what is the rationale behind actually changing anything at all if it means messing with a currently successful formula?

[gopokes88]

Keep in mind the governor has veto authority over both BOR and can veto any decision for not acting in the best interests of the university, state, and its people. OU can leave OSU but it's not a cut and dry easy decision. It would be politically difficult even for a Boren.

"But, the final member, and the final authorizing authority over both boards is the Governor. It’s his/her responsibility that the schools are acting in the best interest of the people of the state, and that includes the other school’s system. Since he/she appoints the BOR he can have them replaced. The Governor has final veto."

Are Oklahoma and Oklahoma State REALLY A Package Deal? - Crimson And Cream Machine

I won't say oh that'll never happen, but it's not a slam dunk either.

[jerrywall]

Here's a question from the outside, asked on the basis of not much detailed knowledge about the conference and what is going on. What is the problem with the Big 12 as it stands now? What needs to be solved? Reading through the thread, it sounds like the OU football games have constantly sold out crowds. If they do, what is the rationale behind actually changing anything at all if it means messing with a currently successful formula?

It's more than selling game tickets. It's being able to recruit, it's about perception. Conferences without a conference champion, rightly or wrongly, are perceived as weaker by some. It can also limit the revenues the conference members could get. Also, remaining at the current 10 is a nervous position, as all it would take is one or two teams to be poached to severely damage the conferences position nationally.

It appears that the trend is towards larger conferences, not smaller. I liked the old 8 team conference, but I have a feeling the major conferences will end up being 16 team conferences. The trend could certainly reverse itself. But it's worrisome that the big 12 and some or most of it's members don't even seem to want to discuss this issue.

[gopokes88]

Tidbits on conference realignment talk

I haven't met one OSU fan who wants to the conference to break up. (if there are any on this board speak up!). why? because they know if they don't get OU to carry them to another conference they will slide to a lower conference. OSU can't move alone on its own merits.

OU needs to get out of this conference b/c it becomes the AAC part 2.

Most of the little brother schools do not want to add schools to the conference for several reasons. #1 it will decrease their piece of the money pie that OU and Texas gives to them. #2 if the conference is spilt into 2 divisions no team wants to be in the other division w/out OU and Texas. Now the little brother schools get OU and texas every other year at home (some schools like OSU base their season tickets and marketing on this fact). If a little brother has to go to the other division they don't get to host OU and UT every other year.

OU may be the big brother you but sound like the ultimate ou homer with little no facts. Here's a fact. OSU has higher revenue then the avg P5 schools.



OSU has some of the highest revenue per fan as well, we would be valuable addition to any P5. I suspect Boren has an invite for OU and OSU to the Pac-12, which is where all of his leverage is coming form. We may not be the driving force behind realignment but we aren't a bunch of bums OU has to drag along that no one wants. We can hold our own.

[gopokes88]

Osu has sold out 1 game in the history of tboone. And the reason only 1 OU game is in the top ten is because there are no single game tickets sold for the OU game. The OU game is why osu sells season tickets. That is not even debatable

This is 100% complete and total bullsh*t.

We implemented that policy to keep ignorant sooners like you from being able to attend the game. It's not the reason we sell season tickets. Holder would rather have 50,000 cowboys and 10,000 empty seats over 50,000 cowboys and 10,000 sooners.

[gopokes88]

No, that's not what I intended to claim at all. My point is that the OU game has been one of their biggest sellers and that's why Holder implemented the policy of you had to buy season tickets to get the OU game.

This is not true. I was in the freaking room when they made the decision. It is too keep Sooners out. Period.

[Swake]

Keep in mind the governor has veto authority over both BOR and can veto any decision for not acting in the best interests of the university, state, and its people. OU can leave OSU but it's not a cut and dry easy decision. It would be politically difficult even for a Boren.

"But, the final member, and the final authorizing authority over both boards is the Governor. It’s his/her responsibility that the schools are acting in the best interest of the people of the state, and that includes the other school’s system. Since he/she appoints the BOR he can have them replaced. The Governor has final veto."

Are Oklahoma and Oklahoma State REALLY A Package Deal? - Crimson And Cream Machine

I won't say oh that'll never happen, but it's not a slam dunk either.

This is kind of the big question here isn’t it? I think the Big 10 wants KU and OU and it’s the best location for them for reasons that transcend sports, but can they leave OSU and KSU behind politically? How hard is OU willing to push to leave? With the Big 12 (which is really UT) telling Boren to shut up, I place the odds of KU and OU leaving at 50/50. I think this game is going to backfire hugely on the Big 12 and UT. This is exactly the same kind of crap UT did that upset A&M and Nebraska and led to their leaving.

Colorado left because they were on an island, broke and couldn’t compete. No one is really sure why Missouri left except maybe to prove to Kansas they could, but as we have seen, that whole school is a terribly run dumpster fire on all levels. OU has lots of real UT based reasons to leave now, just like Nebraska and A&M did a few years ago. Does Boren pull the trigger? I think he’s probably getting huge pressure from alumni and donors right now to leave. Kansas is going to be terrified of waiting too long and being left behind, so if OU, KU goes too while they have a place to go. Plus if OU is already leaving, I think that gives a political path in Kansas for KU to leave without KSU.

With KU and OU gone the conference is dead. I think UT would end up independent because no other conference want their drama or network.

I could see OSU going to the SEC or Pac-12 if the Big-12 dies. OSU sports are too well funded and too successful to be left behind. I think KSU would end up ok as well. Baylor and TCU are both successful, but religious. The SEC doesn’t need Texas schools, the Big 10 and Pac-12 don’t want religious schools. Maybe they could go to the ACC? The other schools are in real trouble.

[Brownwood]

This is 100% complete and total bullsh*t.

We implemented that policy to keep ignorant sooners like you from being able to attend the game. It's not the reason we sell season tickets. Holder would rather have 50,000 cowboys and 10,000 empty seats over 50,000 cowboys and 10,000 sooners.

Why do you have to make it personal ?

Boulder's statement is NOT 100% B.S. First and foremost, OSU has only sold out their stadium one time since the renovation; second there has been only one OU game in the top 10 of attendance because OSU refuses to sell individual tickets to the game. Finally, Mike Holder himself has acknowledged his strategy to not include certain premium games in the season ticket package is designed to provide incentive to purchase season tickets.

What's wrong with saying the truth? If OSU is so butt hurt at being "little brother" they would rather forego the revenue (upwards of $1 million) for 10,000 unsold tickets, then who is ignorant ? Mike Holder made a strategic decision to increase season ticket sales and it has worked as the ticket based has steadily increased. This is neither ignorant or some childish way to keep Sooners from attending the game.

[traxx]

This is not true. I was in the freaking room when they made the decision. It is too keep Sooners out. Period.

Well if that's true, then I was giving Holder more credit than he deserved. I thought it was a business decision but apparently it was a decision made by a jealous 3 year old. I'd heard this reasoning before but I didn't think Holder was that petty. I was proven wrong. That is so little brother-ish. Also, that policy has not worked. There always seems to be a good number of OU fans at those games. And every time they say they bought their tickets from an OSU person who didn't want to go because it was too cold or they didn't think they had a chance or some other lame reason.

[dankrutka]

I hear the echo that people prefer to drive to watch their team play away games. But that just isn't the case. I believe the last team to sellout their visitor allotment at Owen field was Ohio state.
The small schools with little following in the big12 don't travel well at all. Heck several of the teams didn't even send their band to Norman this year.
Pathetic

It would be worse if OU joined almost any conference besides maybe the SEC. How well do you think Oregon State, Minnesota, or Vanderbilt fans will travel to Norman?

[ou48A]

This is not true. I was in the freaking room when they made the decision. It is too keep Sooners out. Period.

Keep in mind the governor has veto authority over both BOR and can veto any decision for not acting in the best interests of the university, state, and its people. OU can leave OSU but it's not a cut and dry easy decision. It would be politically difficult even for a Boren.

"But, the final member, and the final authorizing authority over both boards is the Governor. It’s his/her responsibility that the schools are acting in the best interest of the people of the state, and that includes the other school’s system. Since he/she appoints the BOR he can have them replaced. The Governor has final veto."

Are Oklahoma and Oklahoma State REALLY A Package Deal? - Crimson And Cream Machine

I won't say oh that'll never happen, but it's not a slam dunk either.

What I can tell you for a fact is that when OU people have seen thousands of empty seats at the OU-osu games in Stillwater, the osu ticket policy when combined with several instances of very poor osu fan behavior has alienated a pretty high percentage of the big OU donor base… so much so that only a very few now seem to care about OU staying with osu…. The thinking on this by many OU people has changed by a very huge amount in a few short years.

Boren has been catching hell from many OU people over OU staying in the Big 12…. This decision will be made with a new governor but such is the dominance of the OU fan base in Oklahoma it would be political suicide for any governor or either political party to hold OU down from being all it can be for the benefit of osu... I believe virtually everyone that matters is well aware of this fact.

Its time osu stood on its own 2 feet and advance or fall based on its own merits and what osu people have built. The pokes need to stop acting like a welfare case dependent on OU for its success and stop taking state taxes to prop up its athletic department.

[Jersey Boss]

Anybody making a primary argument about "the fans" is living in the 20th century. It is about brand and television. If you think the fans are the primary concern you would not see games starting at 11 am. The brand B12 compared to the brand SEC is like comparing Natty Light to COOP.

[Jersey Boss]

It would be worse if OU joined almost any conference besides maybe the SEC. How well do you think Oregon State, Minnesota, or Vanderbilt fans will travel to Norman?

Probably like KSU, ISU, and KU does.

[ou48A]

ou48A: I agree with the overall message of your post and believe OU's admission to the B1G would be a tremendous benefit to the state as a whole. Academically, the B1G is much more highly regarded than the B12 and moving to the B1G would bring numerous research opportunities and ancillary industries. My question to you (and others) is: Do you believe Oklahoma, as a state, has the population and resources to support 2 world class universities ? Would we be better to focus on creating a single world class university and allow the other(s) to be regionally respectable ?

World class can mean many things but many consider the AAU as a bench mark and that has been an OU goal going back to the Bill Banowsky era at OU that I know of.
Because of the considerations given to AAU membership osu doesn’t have a chance in hell at AAU membership and OU only does if the money from various sources is enough.

This is where OU people with vision need to understand that if Oklahoma is going to move beyond its boom and bust commodity based economy that building up the states intellectual capital is paramount
As the Flagship University of the state, located in the largest metro area, it’s only naturally that OU would be the best choice for our state to receive the most help in this mission.

I would like to see the proposed one cent sales tax passed.
I would like our state to establish a higher education endowment fund similar to what 5 other states have that collects revenue from oil & NG production… But only when prices are high enough and it should be progressive. Most of this should go into fields of study where we see high wage job growth.

[ou48A]

This is kind of the big question here isn’t it? I think the Big 10 wants KU and OU and it’s the best location for them for reasons that transcend sports, but can they leave OSU and KSU behind politically? How hard is OU willing to push to leave? With the Big 12 (which is really UT) telling Boren to shut up, I place the odds of KU and OU leaving at 50/50. I think this game is going to backfire hugely on the Big 12 and UT. This is exactly the same kind of crap UT did that upset A&M and Nebraska and led to their leaving.

Colorado left because they were on an island, broke and couldn’t compete. No one is really sure why Missouri left except maybe to prove to Kansas they could, but as we have seen, that whole school is a terribly run dumpster fire on all levels. OU has lots of real UT based reasons to leave now, just like Nebraska and A&M did a few years ago. Does Boren pull the trigger? I think he’s probably getting huge pressure from alumni and donors right now to leave. Kansas is going to be terrified of waiting too long and being left behind, so if OU, KU goes too while they have a place to go. Plus if OU is already leaving, I think that gives a political path in Kansas for KU to leave without KSU.

With KU and OU gone the conference is dead. I think UT would end up independent because no other conference want their drama or network.

I could see OSU going to the SEC or Pac-12 if the Big-12 dies. OSU sports are too well funded and too successful to be left behind. I think KSU would end up ok as well. Baylor and TCU are both successful, but religious. The SEC doesn’t need Texas schools, the Big 10 and Pac-12 don’t want religious schools. Maybe they could go to the ACC? The other schools are in real trouble.

There has been a lot of talk about OU to the B1G but the rumors I have only recently say that until OU can show a clear path for major academic improvement with proven steady funding sources that OU to the B1G is pretty much a no go…..

It’s a fluid situation… but right now it appears the B1G will raid the ACC and maybe the Big 12 will pick up some of the left overs?

[Swake]

There has been a lot of talk about OU to the B1G but the rumors I have only recently say that until OU can show a clear path for major academic improvement with proven steady funding sources that OU to the B1G is pretty much a no go…..

It’s a fluid situation… but right now it appears the B1G will raid the ACC and maybe the Big 12 will pick up some of the left overs?

I think that's part of why it's a KU/OU package, KU is an AAU school and if OU is willing to upgrade then it can be sold to the other schools. It also would make Nebraska very happy.

I don't think it's actually academics that holds OU back from AAU, it's research spending and spending on elite faculty/researchers. It's a matter of money, and I agree that becoming an AAU school would be very beneficial for the state of Oklahoma. It really needs to happen. OU needs to get it's donors to open up the wallets, big time.

[hoya]

I think Boren's statements about needing to expand served two purposes. The obvious goal was to force the other schools to discuss expansion and approach the subject seriously. The second goal was to give him the excuse he needs for OU to leave, if the conference denied his requests. The Big 12 played right into that one with their "shut up" directive. The Big 12 was basically given an ultimatum, and they spit at Boren for it.

If I'm reading the tea leaves properly, Boren is building his case to leave. There will be political pressure to save OSU, but if Boren can show enough refusals by the Big 12, to the point where it appears that OU has no choice but to leave, then no politician will stick their neck out to stop it. But he needs to look like he gave the Big 12 every chance before he makes that move. I've heard all the whispers of OU and Kansas to the Big 10. I don't have any insider info on that, but I'd love it to be true. But I think OU and Kansas each need to be able to point the finger at the other a little bit. OU will say that the Big 10 was going to take Kansas and somebody, and Kansas will say they were going to take OU and somebody. If that's the case, the state legislatures would rather save one school, rather than lose two.

With OU off the table, and the Big 12 collapsing, OSU might be able to get an invite to the SEC. That, or they'll follow Texas to join the leftovers conference.

[hoya]

I think that's part of why it's a KU/OU package, KU is an AAU school and if OU is willing to upgrade then it can be sold to the other schools. It also would make Nebraska very happy.

I don't think it's actually academics that holds OU back from AAU, it's research spending and spending on elite faculty/researchers. It's a matter of money, and I agree that becoming an AAU school would be very beneficial for the state of Oklahoma. It really needs to happen. OU needs to get it's donors to open up the wallets, big time.

Let's say that Boren's 1 cent sales tax passes. Now wait two years or so and let oil prices rebound (the donors will be in a more giving mood then). So Boren goes to the donors and does a huge fundraising drive. "Give me money to get 100 endowments for hard science professors and I'll get us out of the Big 12".

[OKCretro]

OU may be the big brother you but sound like the ultimate ou homer with little no facts. Here's a fact. OSU has higher revenue then the avg P5 schools.



OSU has some of the highest revenue per fan as well, we would be valuable addition to any P5. I suspect Boren has an invite for OU and OSU to the Pac-12, which is where all of his leverage is coming form. We may not be the driving force behind realignment but we aren't a bunch of bums OU has to drag along that no one wants. We can hold our own.

If osu athletics is so profitable why don't the donate the tax payer money to the school for education and not for sports? The 6.5 million of tax payers money could go a long way in education

[OKCretro]

This is not true. I was in the freaking room when they made the decision. It is too keep Sooners out. Period.

Since you want to name drop yourself, why don't you state your name? That way we could do an open records request to see if your story checks out.

[OKCRT]

If someone thinks joining the SEC will limit OU's exposure they are crazy. As for a fan base, I don't think you guys are aware of just how many OU alumni live in the Southeast.

I agree 100%. The SEC is the best fit for OU all the way around and it's not even close IMO. Big 10 & OU? Ha,that is stupid. OU would be so out of place in that conference. Pac 12? Same thing. Stoops doesn't want the sec because of their strength. That is the main reason. But, if OU moved to the sec they would start recruiting more sec states with a decent chance of landing some of these elite players in that part of the country. Baylor & TCU are killing OUs recruiting in Texas. If OU left for the SEC the Big 12 crumbles. What conference would take on TCU and Baylor? They would most likely be MWC,MAC or whatever lower tier conference. Thus OUs recruiting in Texas would prob. pick back up.

[OKCretro]

I agree 100%. The SEC is the best fit for OU all the way around and it's not even close IMO. Big 10 & OU? Ha,that is stupid. OU would be so out of place in that conference. Pac 12? Same thing. Stoops doesn't want the sec because of their strength. That is the main reason. But, if OU moved to the sec they would start recruiting more sec states with a decent chance of landing some of these elite players in that part of the country. Baylor & TCU are killing OUs recruiting in Texas. If OU left for the SEC the Big 12 crumbles. What conference would take on TCU and Baylor? They would most likely be MWC,MAC or whatever lower tier conference. Thus OUs recruiting in Texas would prob. pick back up.

Couldn't agree more.
Having OU and UT in the same conference as Baylor and tcu legitimizes Baylor and tcu

[Bill Robertson]

If OU were to leave I don't see why OSU being in a different conference is such a big deal. The important part is that they play each other. Colorado - C-State, Iowa - I-State and I'm sure others play annually. Why couldn't OU - OSU?