MAPS 4 Brainstorming

[Bunty]

We should build a spaceship and be the first city with a presence on the moon.

An Oklahoma billionaire should get behind a project like that for Oklahoma City. More billionaires need to do something quite spectacular with their money. Unless they know a secret I don't, they can't take all that money with them when they die. If I was a billionaire, I would do something like that or build a skyscraper taller than Devon.

[Bunty]

I would like to see some kind of MAPS funding specifically for Capitol Hill, Stockyard City, Plaza District, Britton, 23rd, Paseo, and Western neighborhoods.

Why not simply turn those areas into Business Improvement Districts?

[Bunty]

+10,000

OKC is probably the ugliest city visually I have ever been in anywhere and I have been all over the US. Climate can't be used as an excuse. Dallas has a slightly better climate but its overall the same yet there is a night and day difference between the visual appeal of the average Dallas neighborhood and the average OKC neighborhood. Desert, blue collar cities like El Paso are more visually appealing than OKC. There are a few exceptions here of course. Parts of downtown are attractive as well as Auto Alley, the Plaza, and Classen Ten Penn. Of course the Paseo is a visually attractive neighborhood. A fast majority of the city though is just ugly. I don't think the issue can be solved by a MAPS though. I think some MAPS money could go towards various things to jump start neighborhood improvements but in the end the free market, better planning, and/or zoning is going to have to be the change.

How nice of you to get around. But maybe that in part is why OKC tends to be ugly. Too many city leaders don't get around to see how other cities don't have to be ugly.

[Just the facts]

Why not simply turn those areas into Business Improvement Districts?

That could be part of the solution but I was thinking more along the lines of street and sidewalk improvements, financial assistance to residential and commercial developers, parking garage construction, and public transportation improvements either through streetcar expansion of implementation of a neighborhood-based bus system.

[ChrisHayes]

My ideal MAPS 4 would be all about beautification and public safety. Improve the visual appeal of the city and start building up fire and police forces. Both of those would probably go a long way to increasing the appeal of the city for both more people and businesses to relocate here.

[Just the facts]

Can you give examples of improvements to 'visual appeal'?

[Urbanized]

Why not simply turn those areas into Business Improvement Districts?

Some of them already are. BIDs are great for small projects and maintenance, but don't provide enough funding for large capital improvement.

[Urbanized]

...Plus, once these tent-pole density neighborhoods start springing up people are going to want more of them. As demand grows the private sector will eventually take over all on its own. Some of Americas largest home builders are already doing this in other cities across the country. Toll Brothers, famous for the McMansion and sprawl, already has an urban division which accounts for 40% of income.

Toll Brothers City Living | About Us

Likewise, big box retailers are rapidly becoming small box retailers and other national chains are developing urban concepts even faster. OKC just needs to supply a place for these concepts to locate, and what better place than our existing historic districts. In 10 years OKC could have 8 to 10 bonafide walkable urban neighborhoods all connected by mass transit.

I clicked in the link you provided and all I see are single, freestanding condominium projects. No town centers, no neighborhoods, no streetscapes.

[Plutonic Panda]

The next MAPS really ought to be 90% mass transit based. Light-rail start to the airport from convention center(downtown), commuter rail improvements(hopefully there is already commuter rail by then), new buses, major Street car expansion, and new sidewalks.

Beautification and street can be included in the next GoBond package.

I also wish they'd put together another P180 bond to give a billion or so to redo literally every Street within I235/44/40 ring. Widen what streets need to be widened, add landscaping, re-construct them in concrete, add ped friendly features, bike lanes, redo the alleys etc.

[Urbanized]

A billion wouldn't fund those projects on 10% of the streets in the area you just described. I fully support the idea of such projects, but it would need to be confined to arterial and other major streets with the hope that the surrounding neighborhoods would take inspiration from it.

[Plutonic Panda]

Maybe not, but it would at least be a start. Start with the desirable areas that are experiencing growth such as Midtown, AA, Deep Deuce, Uptown 23rd etc.

[Just the facts]

I clicked in the link you provided and all I see are single, freestanding condominium projects. No town centers, no neighborhoods, no streetscapes.

Toll Brothers is still just a residential builder but it speaks volumes that their urban projects now account for 40% of the sales when 5 years ago they didn't even have an urban division.

[BG918]

How nice of you to get around. But maybe that in part is why OKC tends to be ugly. Too many city leaders don't get around to see how other cities don't have to be ugly.

Go to Boulder, CO. They have done a fantastic job with their mandatory landscaping requirements for commercial projects and city streets. They also are in a dry climate but you would never know with all the landscaping especially at strip malls and parking lots.

[warreng88]

My ideal MAPS 4 would be all about beautification and public safety. Improve the visual appeal of the city and start building up fire and police forces. Both of those would probably go a long way to increasing the appeal of the city for both more people and businesses to relocate here.

I get how we can fund the building of the structures the P/FF would be housed in, but how do you propose we fund salaries for the positions on temporary sales tax?

[RadicalModerate]

Go to Boulder, CO. They have done a fantastic job with their mandatory landscaping requirements for commercial projects and city streets. They also are in a dry climate but you would never know with all the landscaping especially at strip malls and parking lots.

And when you have been to the "FrogPond" at the base of the MesaTop (now NCAR), immediately adjacent to what used to be The National Bureau of Standards (with the barbed wire fence and the Federal 'No Trespassing' Signs), climb either The Third Flatiron or The Maiden--closer to what used to be Eldorado Canyon, sit for awhile, and meditate on the term, "Gentryfication". (of natural resources) =)

I might say, borrowing from Randy Newman, that I Love LA.
Yet that would be insincere and untrue.
I might borrow from John Denver . . .
But he was from West Virginia.
I will state that I honestly like the direction in which OKC is moving
(with a few minor questions regarding a proper "Boulevard")

And those questions don't really matter in the overall scheme of things.
At least not in OKC.

Winsome? Lose some. =)

(p.s./edited to add: at least there are sidewalks adjacent to Hefner Road. c/o Maps whatever. replete with proper signage. =)

[RadicalModerate]

Go to Boulder, CO. They have done a fantastic job with their mandatory landscaping requirements for commercial projects and city streets. They also are in a dry climate but you would never know with all the landscaping especially at strip malls and parking lots.

And when you have been to the "FrogPond" at the base of the MesaTop (now NCAR), immediately adjacent to what used to be The National Bureau of Standards (with the barbed wire fence and the Federal 'No Trespassing' Signs), climb either The Third Flatiron or The Maiden--closer to what used to be Eldorado Canyon, sit for awhile, and meditate on the term, "Gentryfication". (of natural resources) =O)

I might say, borrowing from Randy Newman, that I Love LA.
Yet that would be insincere and untrue.e
I might borrow from John Denver . . .
But he was from West Virginia.
I will state that I honestly like the direction in which OKC is moving
(with a few minor questions regarding a proper "Boulevard")

[Laramie]

Focus areas for MAPS IV - $850 million.

I. City 250-300 ft., War Memorial monument for Central Park - $50 million.

___
285 ft., Soldiers & Sailors Monument, Indianapolis______252 ft., Pilgrim Monument, Provincetown, MA

II. Expand and upgrade commuter & public mass transit - $200 million.

III. City beautification of neighborhood parks, streets - $200 million; $25 million each x 8 Wards.

IV. Continuous upkeep for some existing MAPS Projects - $200 million.

A. Chesapeake Energy Arena ($50 million)
B. Cox Convention Center ($25 million)
C. Civic Center Music Hall ($25 million)
D. Bricktown Ballpark ($25 million)
E. Bricktown Canal ($25 million)
F. Riverfront Boat House Area ($25 million)
G. Riverfront Development ($25 million)

V. Public Safety Buildings & Equipment - $150 million.

A. Police & Fire Buildings; renovation and/or expansion ($75 million)

B. Police & Fire Equipment ($75 million)

1. Vehicles & Fire trucks

Contingency Fund: $50 million.

"Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.

[HOT ROD]

I like, except I'd revise as follows:

MAPS IV - $900M (7-year)

OKC UNION MOMUMENT $50M
needs to be at least 400 feet for proper landmark/placemaking in Union Park

TRANSIT $320M
- STREETCAR $140M phase III
-- $20M for Deep Deuce to OHC
-- $60M for Midtown to Plaza to OCU to Asian District to Paseo to Uptown to Capitol to Eastside(23rd & MLK) (with possible integration with OHC line to form a loop)
-- $30M for Central Park to Boathouse/Riverfront to Capital Hill to Wheeler (future extension to Farmers Market, Stockyard's City, Dell area, Fairgrounds/OMC)
-- $20M for CBD interchanges/taxi routes that weren't included in Phase I/II but add to viability of the system.
-- $10M for more streetcars

- METRO BUS $80M to expand/replace the bus fleet to all natural gas/electric hybrid (CNG or even better LNG). Suburbs contribute $40M (all total) to bring the grand total funding to $120M for busses of all sizes - all nat gas. Add'l infrastructure funds or tax breaks could come from Feds/State.

- COMMUTER RAIL $100M for OKC's contribution
- $45M for the cars (also nat gas/electric hybrid if possible). Suburbs contribute $25M for grand total of $65M for the commuter rail cars.
- $10M for transit/transfer centers [and necessary signal/signage nearby] at 63rd/Broadway, 23rd/Capitol, 25th/Capital Hill, Eastern/MLK, and TIK (total of $50M). Edmond, Del City/MWC, Moore, Norman, *Guthrie/Purcell - build their own stations/stop at whatever cost/type and location along the alignment they desire.
- $5M (total) for PnR at Broadway/Memorial Rd and Crossroads. Garages/Transit Center upgrades can be built future funding.
- Infrastructure funds for track upgrades likely to come from Feds/State.

Transit Related Infrastructure $90M
- $50M to expand/build out the Santa Fe transit center downtown for City Bus, Commuter Rail, Commuter and Express Bus, Inter-City Bus, Inter-City Rail/Tulsa. Add'l Infrastructure funds for track upgrades likely to come from State and/or ACOG/OCART.
- $20M for bus stops/shelters. Suburbs contribute their own.
- $15M Operations Maintenance Center (near fairgrounds) for Bus/CR/Streetcar and several nat gas filling stations (which can also be used by the public, for add'l profit). Suburbs can buy/build their own if desired. < Streetcar will initially be served only by the Union Park OMC, until tracks expanded to the new Intermodal OMC. >
- $5M for ACOG/OCART Master Control and Operations center to be added to Union Station (or wherever Embark/Metro/OCART hq is/will be located). Suburbs contribute to this according to ACOG/OCART charter.

MAPS Upkeep (down to $110M)
Remove dollars for the Cox altogether; reduce for the Ballpark, Civic Centre, Boathouse, and Canal
- Chesapeake Energy Arena $50M (adding back in the things that were cut in the original expansion) - private contributions could expand this total
- Bricktown Ballpark $10M
- Civic Centre $10M (if necessary?)
- Boathouse District $10M (sidewalks, placemaking, lighting)
- Canal $10M (placemaking, lighting)
- Riverfront $50M (tie into Wheeler, bridge beautification, tree maturation, facilities)

BEAUTIFICATION $160M
Shuffle beautification so that higher density areas are rewarded/encouraged, ie - inner core wards and thoroughfares get more funding, rural get less (since less to beautify or folks to see/use it). Emphasis on placemaking and integrating Transit/sidewalks/lighting with 'hood amenities.

DOWNTOWN BEAUTIFICATION $20M
Since downtown is the centerpiece of the metro/state, I think it should have a separate fund specifically for placemaking that doesn't need to interfere/get lost in the ward beautification.

SIDEWALKS $100M
all MAPs need to have dollars for sidewalks until OKC is built out IMO

DOWNTOWN LIGHTING $30M
to me, downtown OKC is far too dark at night. a lit up city inspires folks to go/remain outside at night and gives a big city vibe, not to mention encourages safety.

Contingency $20M
don't need larger than $20M here

[David]

I'm wondering if throwing a little money at Public Safety this time around might be a good idea, if only in an attempt to head off a repeat of the opposition that Maps 3 got.

Aside from that, I'm still hoping to see fiber internet in Maps 4. Since I posted this thread I've seen news of higher speed internet options being introduced in northeast Oklahoma and southeast Oklahoma, but nothing close to OKC.

[warreng88]

I'm wondering if throwing a little money at Public Safety this time around might be a good idea, if only in an attempt to head off a repeat of the opposition that Maps 3 got.

Aside from that, I'm still hoping to see fiber internet in Maps 4. Since I posted this thread I've seen news of higher speed internet options being introduced in northeast Oklahoma and southeast Oklahoma, but nothing close to OKC.

The problem is we can't get more police officers with a temporary tax. The GO Bond comes due at the same time and using funds from there to build new police/fire stations would be proper. Using funds from a temporary sales tax to fund full time positions does not make sense.

[David]

Using funds from a temporary sales tax to fund full time positions does not make sense.

I understand that, what I was thinking was buildings or equipment as suggested by Laramie just a couple posts up.

[warreng88]

I understand that, what I was thinking was buildings or equipment as suggested by Laramie just a couple posts up.

Gotcha. I just saw the post and remember hashing this out with FOP several years ago and thought that was the same train of thought. Thanks for the clarification.

[Plutonic Panda]

I like, except I'd revise as follows:

MAPS IV - $900M (7-year)

OKC UNION MOMUMENT $50M
needs to be at least 400 feet for proper landmark/placemaking in Union Park

TRANSIT $320M
- STREETCAR $140M phase III
-- $20M for Deep Deuce to OHC
-- $60M for Midtown to Plaza to OCU to Asian District to Paseo to Uptown to Capitol to Eastside(23rd & MLK) (with possible integration with OHC line to form a loop)
-- $30M for Central Park to Boathouse/Riverfront to Capital Hill to Wheeler (future extension to Farmers Market, Stockyard's City, Dell area, Fairgrounds/OMC)
-- $20M for CBD interchanges/taxi routes that weren't included in Phase I/II but add to viability of the system.
-- $10M for more streetcars

- METRO BUS $80M to expand/replace the bus fleet to all natural gas/electric hybrid (CNG or even better LNG). Suburbs contribute $40M (all total) to bring the grand total funding to $120M for busses of all sizes - all nat gas. Add'l infrastructure funds or tax breaks could come from Feds/State.

- COMMUTER RAIL $100M for OKC's contribution
- $45M for the cars (also nat gas/electric hybrid if possible). Suburbs contribute $25M for grand total of $65M for the commuter rail cars.
- $10M for transit/transfer centers [and necessary signal/signage nearby] at 63rd/Broadway, 23rd/Capitol, 25th/Capital Hill, Eastern/MLK, and TIK (total of $50M). Edmond, Del City/MWC, Moore, Norman, *Guthrie/Purcell - build their own stations/stop at whatever cost/type and location along the alignment they desire.
- $5M (total) for PnR at Broadway/Memorial Rd and Crossroads. Garages/Transit Center upgrades can be built future funding.
- Infrastructure funds for track upgrades likely to come from Feds/State.

Transit Related Infrastructure $90M
- $50M to expand/build out the Santa Fe transit center downtown for City Bus, Commuter Rail, Commuter and Express Bus, Inter-City Bus, Inter-City Rail/Tulsa. Add'l Infrastructure funds for track upgrades likely to come from State and/or ACOG/OCART.
- $20M for bus stops/shelters. Suburbs contribute their own.
- $15M Operations Maintenance Center (near fairgrounds) for Bus/CR/Streetcar and several nat gas filling stations (which can also be used by the public, for add'l profit). Suburbs can buy/build their own if desired. < Streetcar will initially be served only by the Union Park OMC, until tracks expanded to the new Intermodal OMC. >
- $5M for ACOG/OCART Master Control and Operations center to be added to Union Station (or wherever Embark/Metro/OCART hq is/will be located). Suburbs contribute to this according to ACOG/OCART charter.

MAPS Upkeep (down to $110M)
Remove dollars for the Cox altogether; reduce for the Ballpark, Civic Centre, Boathouse, and Canal
- Chesapeake Energy Arena $50M (adding back in the things that were cut in the original expansion) - private contributions could expand this total
- Bricktown Ballpark $10M
- Civic Centre $10M (if necessary?)
- Boathouse District $10M (sidewalks, placemaking, lighting)
- Canal $10M (placemaking, lighting)
- Riverfront $50M (tie into Wheeler, bridge beautification, tree maturation, facilities)

BEAUTIFICATION $160M
Shuffle beautification so that higher density areas are rewarded/encouraged, ie - inner core wards and thoroughfares get more funding, rural get less (since less to beautify or folks to see/use it). Emphasis on placemaking and integrating Transit/sidewalks/lighting with 'hood amenities.

DOWNTOWN BEAUTIFICATION $20M
Since downtown is the centerpiece of the metro/state, I think it should have a separate fund specifically for placemaking that doesn't need to interfere/get lost in the ward beautification.

SIDEWALKS $100M
all MAPs need to have dollars for sidewalks until OKC is built out IMO

DOWNTOWN LIGHTING $30M
to me, downtown OKC is far too dark at night. a lit up city inspires folks to go/remain outside at night and gives a big city vibe, not to mention encourages safety.

Contingency $20M
don't need larger than $20M here

i can dig it....hopefully there would be a separate billion dollar bond package dedicated specifically for light rail

[Laramie]

Chesapeake Energy Arena

We have $184 million invested excluded ($11 million) for Thunder practice facility:

1. Original construction $89 million.
2. NBA-ready renovations $95 in 2009.

Venues Today :: OKC Arena Completes Construction

Would another renovation (MAPS IV) keep the arena up to par with the NBA? Keep in mind that the Supersonics renovated Key Arena (Seattle Center) in 1995 and lost the team in 2007-08.

What is the life span of the Chesapeake Energy Arena?

Dallas: Reunion Arena: 1980 - 2008 (28 years); American Airlines Center 2001
Houston: Summit Arena: 1975-2003 (28 years); Toyota Center 2003
Orlando: Orlando Arena: 1989 - 2010 (21-years); Amway Center 2010
San Antonio: HemisFair Arena: 1968-1995* (27 years); AT&T Center 2002

*Spurs used Alamodome 1995-2002

"Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.

[HOT ROD]

it is a top facility already, but I think adding back the elements which were cut (practice floor, children's area, rooftop gardens, etc) and maybe adding a few more things (like a few more restaurants/bars, concessions, outdoor video screens - particularly the large one that was supposed to be on the expansion) could keep the Peake more than relevant for the next 25+.