James Harden Traded....Others to Houston

[dcsooner]

Some thoughts that initially cross my mind about all this:

1. If Harden had played the last 4 years with the Dallas Mavericks, was 6MOY and played exactly as he has in OKC the past 4 years, he's worth no more than $11.5M/year for OKC. The fact that Presti extended ~$13.5M/year to Harden shows a lot of commitment to Harden. And I think growing up in OKC made that extra $2M/year worth it...but I don't see how you can justify paying a player $4M/year more than the max you would consider paying him under other circumstances.

2. I've said since the day we knew this Harden/Ibaka thing would be an issue (starting in the 2010/11 season) that if both players are playing at an equal level (and admittedly, Harden is at a slightly higher level than Ibaka right now, though Ibaka's ceiling is higher) you have to take Ibaka.

Why? Because of Kevin Durant. KD is a 3 that can play both the 2 and the 4 incredibly well, but his most natural talents are more suited to playing the 2...This makes Harden more expendable than Ibaka. Furthermore, Russell Westbrook is also a fantastic 2 guard. So Harden has 2 all-stars who can pick up the slack at his position. Ibaka? Nobody on the team can fill in for Ibaka when he's not doing what he does best.

3. The most important and best way for the Thunder to mitigate the loss of James Harden is not by replacing him. It's by fixing the holes that he covered as a player (and that were exposed by Miami in the Finals). OKC has to has to has to establish an offensive system that can create without the ridiculous athleticism of Durant/Westbrook/Harden. They showed flashes against San Antonio but seemed to move away from it against Miami (though I have a suspicion that Miami simply disrupted the system with fantastic defense). OKC is still in a position to win it all this year if, as it should, everything about the team improves. Arguably every player on the team should play better than they did last year except for Collison (who is probably exiting his prime at this point) and maybe Perkins (who will likely maintain his level of play). The idea that Durant and Westbrook still have a few years before they hit their stride should be comforting to OKC fans who think that the entire season is lost. Unfortunately, Miami should be better this year as well, and the Lakers got pretty damn stout.

4. Maynor and PJIII's jobs are now more important. Martin should be pretty helpful as a stop gap for Harden, but he likely won't be enough based on learning-curve and the fact that he would have to be resigned for the future. Speaking of Maynor, if he proves himself worthy this year, we can now reasonably afford resigning him. Better still is the possibility that Jackson shows himself to be a quality back-up PG and we can use Maynor to leverage a good trade.

5. The Most important thing in all of this is seeing how committed Presti is to the long term. This trade makes 2 things apparent: 1. Presti is in OKC to stay. I say that because Presti just hurt the possibility instant gratification (the chance of winning a couple titles over the next 3 years) for point 2. OKC is leveraged for so much flexibility from this trade. OKC can develop long-term plans with more ease, and they can make more low risk/high reward type investments in future players. OKC fans may be moaning the loss of an Icon right now, I myself am...but the OKC Thunder won BIG BIG BIG with this trade.

In 4 years, OKC is going to have to make some major moves to continue competing for titles. Simply put, that task would likely have been near impossible at that juncture after being battered by the luxury tax the previous 3 seasons and the very real threat of repeat offender making putting together a great roster impossible.

Keeping Harden was a lot like OU fans thinking they would blowout Notre Dame. It certainly was a possibility, and if things had broke just right, could have well become a reality. The probability, however, was never really that high. It's just disappointing when fairy-tale worlds end up being turned into dust.

Homerun!!!

[BoulderSooner]

disagree that miami got a lot better .... they had to shoot lights out to beat OKC and only got past boston because of injury ...

[Stan Silliman]

Some thoughts that initially cross my mind about all this:

1. If Harden had played the last 4 years with the Dallas Mavericks, was 6MOY and played exactly as he has in OKC the past 4 years, he's worth no more than $11.5M/year for OKC. The fact that Presti extended ~$13.5M/year to Harden shows a lot of commitment to Harden. And I think growing up in OKC made that extra $2M/year worth it...but I don't see how you can justify paying a player $4M/year more than the max you would consider paying him under other circumstances.

2. I've said since the day we knew this Harden/Ibaka thing would be an issue (starting in the 2010/11 season) that if both players are playing at an equal level (and admittedly, Harden is at a slightly higher level than Ibaka right now, though Ibaka's ceiling is higher) you have to take Ibaka.

Why? Because of Kevin Durant. KD is a 3 that can play both the 2 and the 4 incredibly well, but his most natural talents are more suited to playing the 2...This makes Harden more expendable than Ibaka. Furthermore, Russell Westbrook is also a fantastic 2 guard. So Harden has 2 all-stars who can pick up the slack at his position. Ibaka? Nobody on the team can fill in for Ibaka when he's not doing what he does best.

3. The most important and best way for the Thunder to mitigate the loss of James Harden is not by replacing him. It's by fixing the holes that he covered as a player (and that were exposed by Miami in the Finals). OKC has to has to has to establish an offensive system that can create without the ridiculous athleticism of Durant/Westbrook/Harden. They showed flashes against San Antonio but seemed to move away from it against Miami (though I have a suspicion that Miami simply disrupted the system with fantastic defense). OKC is still in a position to win it all this year if, as it should, everything about the team improves. Arguably every player on the team should play better than they did last year except for Collison (who is probably exiting his prime at this point) and maybe Perkins (who will likely maintain his level of play). The idea that Durant and Westbrook still have a few years before they hit their stride should be comforting to OKC fans who think that the entire season is lost. Unfortunately, Miami should be better this year as well, and the Lakers got pretty damn stout.

4. Maynor and PJIII's jobs are now more important. Martin should be pretty helpful as a stop gap for Harden, but he likely won't be enough based on learning-curve and the fact that he would have to be resigned for the future. Speaking of Maynor, if he proves himself worthy this year, we can now reasonably afford resigning him. Better still is the possibility that Jackson shows himself to be a quality back-up PG and we can use Maynor to leverage a good trade.

5. The Most important thing in all of this is seeing how committed Presti is to the long term. This trade makes 2 things apparent: 1. Presti is in OKC to stay. I say that because Presti just hurt the possibility instant gratification (the chance of winning a couple titles over the next 3 years) for point 2. OKC is leveraged for so much flexibility from this trade. OKC can develop long-term plans with more ease, and they can make more low risk/high reward type investments in future players. OKC fans may be moaning the loss of an Icon right now, I myself am...but the OKC Thunder won BIG BIG BIG with this trade.

In 4 years, OKC is going to have to make some major moves to continue competing for titles. Simply put, that task would likely have been near impossible at that juncture after being battered by the luxury tax the previous 3 seasons and the very real threat of repeat offender making putting together a great roster impossible.

Keeping Harden was a lot like OU fans thinking they would blowout Notre Dame. It certainly was a possibility, and if things had broke just right, could have well become a reality. The probability, however, was never really that high. It's just disappointing when fairy-tale worlds end up being turned into dust.

But.... but... I likes my fairy tales.

[OKCisOK4me]

Honestly, I agree that trading the beard away was and is a good thing. Harden may have had a huge role in getting us to the The Finals, but his playoff #s were much lower than his regular season averages. Does no one remember how many 3's he missed?? Also, we got a rookie from Connecticut (a basketball school), a valued 9 year pro that has a greater 3pt percentage than Harden, two first round picks & a second round pick via Charlotte. I mean, all in all, that's a pretty good deal and will give us more directions to go forward that any one 6MOY can do.

[Stew]

It stinks because James Harden was such a fan favorite, but only in his world is he worth more than $52 million. All that talk about sacrifice and playing with "my brothers" was BS. Presti and the team did what they had to do. Very disappointed in Mr. Harden.

I hope he appreciates that extra $8 million for no championships playing for a crappy has-been team like Houston.

Who in their right mind would leave $8 million on the table. I can't fault Harden for choosing fair market value for his skills. Pretty much what most would do. Also, there is no guarantee of championships if he stayed. As they say a bird in the hand...

PS

Texas has no state income taxes.

[Bellaboo]

Who in their right mind would leave $8 million on the table. I can't fault Harden for choosing fair market value for his skills. Pretty much what most would do. Also, there is no guarantee of championships if he stayed. As they say a bird in the hand...

PS

Texas has no state income taxes.

Does not matter for half the games, as a player pays taxes in each state they play in. When Kobe plays at the 'Peake, he pays Oklahoma state income tax for the amount he earned for that game. For that matter, the opposing team ownership pays Oklahoma state income taxes for profits for any game their teams make at the Peake when they play the Thunder.

[dankrutka]

the other issue is Harden's party animal culture being in question too.

Why do people keep bringing this up? Harden is known as a dedicated, hard worker and 2 pictures from the off season come out and here comes the party animal narrative. Just because a 23 year old has fun does not mean that they don't take care of their job also. By all accounts, he does that.

[dankrutka]

disagree that miami got a lot better .... they had to shoot lights out to beat OKC and only got past boston because of injury ...

They added Ray Allen. I agree that their bench players overperformed in the finals, but they'll be better. They finally figured out how to use LeBron. It's scary.

[TaoMaas]

Keeping Harden was a lot like OU fans thinking they would blowout Notre Dame. It certainly was a possibility, and if things had broke just right, could have well become a reality. The probability, however, was never really that high. It's just disappointing when fairy-tale worlds end up being turned into dust.

I highly doubt that either Harden or Presti thought it was a fairy tale.

[king183]

Why do people keep bringing this up? Harden is known as a dedicated, hard worker and 2 pictures from the off season come out and here comes the party animal narrative. Just because a 23 year old has fun does not mean that they don't take care of their job also. By all accounts, he does that.

Agreed. The party animal narrative is one of the more absurd criticisms of Harden. People who bring it up generally don't know much about the sport and are more interested in celebrity gossip. There is nothing to suggest his off the court activities have negatively affected his game.

[bhawes]

Agreed. The party animal narrative is one of the more absurd criticism of Harden. People who bring it up generally don't know much about the sport and are more interested in celebrity gossip. There is nothing to suggest his off the court activities have negative affected his game.

Harden I heard may get five years for 80 million. Not mad he better get his money while he can still play because the owners will be making that money when u cant play anymore. Plus if Serge is making 48 over 4 years then harden and his agent said he should be making 60 million over four sears and be a starter.

[bhawes]

Harden I heard may get five years for 80 million. Not mad he better get his money while he can still play because the owners will be making that money when u cant play anymore. Plus if Serge is making 48 over 4 years then harden and his agent said he should be making 60 million over four sears and be a starter.

[Bellaboo]

Why do people keep bringing this up? Harden is known as a dedicated, hard worker and 2 pictures from the off season come out and here comes the party animal narrative. Just because a 23 year old has fun does not mean that they don't take care of their job also. By all accounts, he does that.

Only 2 pictures ? Guess you didn't see the ones that I did..... no, over on DailyThunder there has been all kinds of questions asked about his party animal character. I know 23 year old sports superstars are going to do it their way, but he can't escape all of the stripper bar camera shots that people take of him...... Did you see the one where it was titled 'Harden making it rain' ?

[dankrutka]

Yes. Those pics and the white party ones... What else is there?

Anyway, that's not the point. Again, by all accounts, he puts his work in above and beyond like other Thunder players. There's NEVER been any evidence any of it has affected his play or work ethic.

[Teo9969]

disagree that miami got a lot better .... they had to shoot lights out to beat OKC and only got past boston because of injury ...

I don't think anyone is saying Miami got *a lot* better...but they did get better.

also, they didn't really shoot lights out in the 3 games that mattered most (2-4). They shot adequately, but nothing like game 5. I think at the end of Game 4, everyone knew OKC was probably done.

[BoulderSooner]

I don't think anyone is saying Miami got *a lot* better...but they did get better.

also, they didn't really shoot lights out in the 3 games that mattered most (2-4). They shot adequately, but nothing like game 5. I think at the end of Game 4, everyone knew OKC was probably done.

battier was 5-7 from 3 in game 2 .. and they made 10 3's in game 4 ... way over their average ..

[Bellaboo]

Yes. Those pics and the white party ones... What else is there?

Anyway, that's not the point. Again, by all accounts, he puts his work in above and beyond like other Thunder players. There's NEVER been any evidence any of it has affected his play or work ethic.

LOL..... wonder what he was doing the night before when he went 2 for 17 against the Suns at the BOK last week ?

[onthestrip]

LOL..... wonder what he was doing the night before when he went 2 for 17 against the Suns at the BOK last week ?

I think that woeful shooting night had less to do with what he did the night before and more to do with the fact that KD and RW didnt play and Harden was depended upon to score, and with not much help. You might see more shooting night like this from him in Houston. It will be a little tougher when every opponents defensive game plan primarily revolves around him.

[Bellaboo]

I think that woeful shooting night had less to do with what he did the night before and more to do with the fact that KD and RW didnt play and Harden was depended upon to score, and with not much help. You might see more shooting night like this from him in Houston. It will be a little tougher when every opponents defensive game plan primarily revolves around him.

I think the same thing, as we've all seen when he replaced Thabo as a starter last year it didn't work. In late game situations, no way could an opponent double him with KD and Westbrook on the floor, Houston........you've got a problem.

Don't get me wrong, I wished we could have kept him, but now that it's done, it looks like we'll still compete for the title.

The game where they sat KD and Westbrook was vs. Chicago, but in Tulsa vs the Suns was when he couldn't find the ocean with the ball.

[dankrutka]

also, they didn't really shoot lights out in the 3 games that mattered most (2-4). They shot adequately, but nothing like game 5. I think at the end of Game 4, everyone knew OKC was probably done.

I'm not sure what you mean. Which Finals games didn't matter?!? Lol. They all seemed pretty important games to me.

[dankrutka]

LOL..... wonder what he was doing the night before when he went 2 for 17 against the Suns at the BOK last week ?

James Harden didn't play against the PHX Suns in Tulsa. If you're referring to his 2 of 17 game in Wichita then the answer is that he played a game in Chicago the night before. I heard you had a bad day at work the other day... what were you doing the night before?

[Teo9969]

I'm not sure what you mean. Which Finals games didn't matter?!? Lol. They all seemed pretty important games to me.

umm, Game 5 was not going to be won by OKC. When we lost Game 4 the series was over. Formalities aren't that important

[Bellaboo]

James Harden didn't play against the PHX Suns in Tulsa. If you're referring to his 2 of 17 game in Wichita then the answer is that he played a game in Chicago the night before. I heard you had a bad day at work the other day... what were you doing the night before?

It is noted that Pele' was a party animal, and that opposing teams would set him up with the 'fun girls' the night before the road games they were on.

I'd have to check on the Game, It was the first game back from the groin strain this preseason, but he sucked that night shooting, like 2 for 17....kind of like he did against the lakers in last years playoffs, besides the dissapearing act he did in the finals against the Heat......and it could happen again in Houston without his two All Star sidekicks spreading the court for him.

It was against the Bulls, not the following day against the Mavericks in Wichita...

Here's his line - not too bad except for the poor shooting performance which can happen.....bottom line is, this could happen to him in Houston when he has the other teams top defender on him.....

Oklahoma City Thunder
STARTERS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF +/- PTS
Serge Ibaka, PF 29 10-17 1-2 3-3 2 6 8 0 1 2 0 4 -11 24
Kendrick Perkins, C 22 2-4 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 2 1 0 1 2 -7 4
Eric Maynor, PG 32 5-12 3-4 0-0 1 1 2 2 1 0 2 2 -14 13
James Harden, SG 38 2-17 0-4 9-12 1 6 7 7 1 0 1 3 -7 13
Thabo Sefolosha, SG 22 1-3 1-1 0-0 0 3 3 2 0 0 1 3 -7

[dankrutka]

umm, Game 5 was not going to be won by OKC. When we lost Game 4 the series was over. Formalities aren't that important

It's easy to say these things after-the-fact, and when Mike Miller has arguably the best clinching game for a scrub of all time. If OKC came back from 0-2 against the Spurs, they were certainly capable of winning Game 5... but, alas, Miami shot lights out.

[dankrutka]

Someone school me, how would Harden not have known about this trade and previously agreed to it? Do they sign that right away with their agent?

Harden didn't really have a say in being traded. He was a restricted free agent, which means the Thunder were the only team that could negotiate with him. He can be traded at any time without having a say in it. Presti mentioned it to him at the end of the process, but he didn't have to. Now that Harden's rights have been traded to the Rockets they exclusively own his rights and will be signing him to a 5 year extension of almost $80 million in the next day or two.