Friends for a Better Boulevard

[soonerguru]

Of course it's not about a road, it's about you, Nick.

Wow. You haven't been here very long to make such a pointedly jerky comment. Where is your drawing?

[Spartan]

Of course it's not about a road, it's about you, Nick.

Who the **** are you? Could you please explain how anything is about me. I've told anyone who has asked me or sent me an email in the past month that Cuatro de Mayo, who has also has a real name, came up with the traffic circle sketch that has been going around.

If it's about any one person, it's Wenger, who needs to be fired and sent to Tulsa.

[Just the facts]

I'm sorry, but Cornett's statement was crap. It will not "concentrate" development. There will be no development. This is a cluster----. Attending DeadCenter with my family, we were visually trying to understand what moron would want the "highway boulevard" to be elevated as far east as Lee Blvd. This will stunt the growth of the western side of Downtown. This makes no sense.

If elevated high-speed roads created development how come the areas around the old I-40 never had any quality development? How come no one seems to understand that you can't create development around cars doing 60 mph?

[Spartan]

Did you guys know that the speed limit on the recently redone NE Oklahoma Avenue through Deep Deuce and A-Alley is 40 mph? I saw that today and I was shocked, but not really.

[Just the facts]

Did you guys know that the speed limit on the recently redone NE Oklahoma Avenue through Deep Deuce and A-Alley is 40 mph? I saw that today and I was shocked, but not really.

Nothing says pedestrian safety like 3000 pounds moving 40 mph. However, the set speed limit should actually be irrelevant. A well designed urban street shouldn't need a speed limit because the proper application of traffic calming measures should keep speeds at a safe level. Once this area fills in those on-street parking spaces will fill up and that will slow traffic down, regardless of what the speed limit signs says. Walnut will be a different story if they keep it 4 lanes and no on-street parking.

[Spartan]

There is no on-street parking on Oklahoma north of 4th. There is a dedicated bike lane though.

[Larry OKC]

Larry, how would you spur development and sense of place where the Crosstown used to be? That is the question - I don't understand why anybody thinks this is about a road.

I guess I am questioning the need for yet another place to "spur development"...we already have plenty of that and are needing infill development etc to get to the Urban Utopia that I hear some ardent posters suggesting. How does the Boulevard help in that regard? I have asked this question of the Mayor, City Manager, various Council people what is the NEED for the Boulevard, yet another DT street? I have yet to hear of any reasoning for it. it is just a given in their minds. The Mayor stated (not a direct quote), that if the Park & Boulevard doesn't happen, downtown grinds to a halt. Why? We were without both for 100+ years and hasn't seemed to stop it in its tracks yet. And while on the subject of development (sorry if this upsets Urban or others), but isn't that precisely what the Streetcars are supposed to foster? The 8 to 1 return on investment? Several people have asked "why would we go down the Park to Union Station?". To spur the development that the City is wanting with the Park and the blighted area that is commonly known as Core to Shore. While the Park itself is supposed to help in that regard, the Streetcar is complimentary to it (as it would be with all of the MAPS projects). Those same folks convinced me that the Streetcar is what would do that and now the route chosen is along already developed properties. Seems to me somewhere along the way, they lost track (no pun intended) of what the purpose was. Granted that may have been at the direction of the Council. And if it was, that is the political/bureaucratic reality they are having to deal with. Unfortunately, it is what we are all going to have to live with for decades to come. I want the Streetcar to be a success, but the proposed route seems destined for failure. And a very expensive one at that. We have to get it right the 1st time. only time will tell.

[Urban Pioneer]

I want the Streetcar to be a success, but the proposed route seems destined for failure.

That is your opinion Larry. And not one widely shared.

[Spartan]

There is a pretty wide consensus the convention center and especially this boulevard will be a failure. There is however also a pretty wide consensus that the streetcar project has done good planning.

[OKCisOK4me]

Who the **** are you? Could you please explain how anything is about me. I've told anyone who has asked me or sent me an email in the past month that Cuatro de Mayo, who has also has a real name, came up with the traffic circle sketch that has been going around.

If it's about any one person, it's Wenger, who needs to be fired and sent to Tulsa.

Actually, I came up with the traffic circle. He just used his architectural skills and program to make it look better ;-)

[CuatrodeMayo]

Actually, I came up with the traffic circle. He just used his architectural skills and program to make it look better ;-)

This post back in March?

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=28935&p=516916#post516916

[OKCisOK4me]

This post back in March?

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=28935&p=516916#post516916

Yes sir...thanks. Now if you had the same idea before that, I musta missed those pages ;-)

[Spartan]

Well I'm all for doling out credit, good idea buddy. We'll need some folks to speak to council, an original brainchild wouldn't be a bad thing to have. Better anyone who can patiently tolerate council, than me.. lol

[CuatrodeMayo]

Yes sir...thanks. Now if you had the same idea before that, I musta missed those pages ;-)

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...194#post364194

[JohnH_in_OKC]

If we are smart enough to zone the New Boulevard corridor to exclude fast food joints & gas stations from being built along the boulevard, we could create a classy boulevard like the Ramblas in Barcelona (clicking on the images will enlarge them).

Click here for more images of the Ramblas in Barcelona

or Boston's Commonwealth Avenue (rendering).

Click here for more images of Boston's Commonwealth Avenue

[Larry OKC]

I sent the following concerns about the Boulevard to City Leaders. Here it is and a reply for what it is worth...

Mr. Eric Wenger:

At a recent Council meeting it was brought up that the western end of the Boulevard is going to be elevated and with overpasses, no longer being the "at grade" Boulevard that it has been described for several years now. This is a very expensive project and if it isn't gong to be done right, it needs to be scrapped completely.

Something I noticed years ago (that apparently ODOT just now realized, maybe by looking at a map?), that by following the old crosstown footprint, that it creates several challenges because it doesn't travel in a straight line, and will be literally within a few feet of existing streets (sometimes at odd angles).

A traffic circle was also mentioned as a possible solution but that is a horrible idea and needs to be avoided at all costs. OKC used to have traffic circles and they were removed years ago for safety reasons. Now they are being returned? The reason for the return as "due to advancements in technology, they are safer". Technology?? What technology…it is a traffic circle!

The best solution, instead of trying to go over or under those other streets, is to straighten out the Boulevard and follow the street grid already established. This could be a revenue producing for the City in a couple of ways.

1) By returning the old crosstown back to the existing grid, much of the land could be returned (sold) to private ownership which means property taxes and development.

2) Use the money for the Boulevard and enhance the existing street grid. Perhaps making up the funding shortfall of Project 180.

The Mayor stated that Downtown "grinds to a halt" without the Boulevard (yet it hasn't done so in the nearly 125 years that OKC has been around, so why would it start now?) I have yet to hear any sort of explanation as to WHY we even NEED this replacement Boulevard as Downtown seems like we plenty of streets already.

Either build the road right or don't build it at all.

Wednesday, June 06, 2012

Thank you for your email and comments regarding the design of the new Boulevard project in Oklahoma City. You make several good suggestions, and the City is continuing to work with the State of Oklahoma on the final design which is still underway. Although returning the Boulevard is not possible at this point, there are a number of opportunities that will be made available to enhance the downtown experience as the old I-40 is demolished and the new Boulevard is constructed.

As you may already know, the design and ultimate construction is being provided by the State as a part of the mitigation plan for the relocation of Interstate-40. Many of the design parameters are governed by Federal requirements, some which the City has some influence in making comments and changes and others which can not. One opportunity that you mention is the availability of land for new developments which will be possible as a part of the completed Boulevard project. What is currently right-of-way for the old I-40 and also SW 3rd Street is more than enough room for the new Boulevard. Once constructed the available space on each side of the new Boulevard will be available for future development to occur.

Other project challenges such as traffic crossings are being considered, and there are several solutions. The City has found success in several new traffic circles that have been constructed, but I also question whether or not a traffic circle will work on the new Boulevard. There are several solutions being considered, no decisions have yet been made, and traffic studies and engineering judgment will be utilized to ensure the final product is one that is successful.

Again, I very much appreciate your interest in the project and thank you for your insight and comments.

Eric J. Wenger, P.E.
Director Public Works/
City Engineer
(405) 297-3486
eric.wenger@okc.gov

[Tier2City]

In order to mitigate moving I-40 we must build another I-40.

[OKCisOK4me]

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...194#post364194

Great minds think alike. That was my first click ever into that thread...cause if I had seen that, I know I would have commented! ;-)

[OKCisOK4me]

Time to send Mr. Wenger an email validating my love for the traffic circle idea so I can nix LarryOKC's message :-)

[jedicurt]

Time to send Mr. Wenger an email validating my love for the traffic circle idea so I can nix LarryOKC's message :-)

love this!!!

[CuatrodeMayo]

Great minds think alike. That was my first click ever into that thread...cause if I had seen that, I know I would have commented! ;-)

Indeed they do, sir. Let's make this happen.

[Bellaboo]

There are several 'Ramblas' streets in Barcelona. I was there last month and I wish we could have something like them. The one that we frequented was a pedestrian only down the center, was tree lined, but had bicycle/ motorcycle lanes on either side. The resturants used the center of the pedestian walk as their seating area. Had dinner at midnight 2 nights in a row. This went for several blocks down to the ocean.....maybe the river could be our destination point ? I was surprised at all of the one way streets in Barcelona though.

[Larry OKC]

There is a pretty wide consensus the convention center and especially this boulevard will be a failure. There is however also a pretty wide consensus that the streetcar project has done good planning.

I agree, it looked like we were headed in the right direction with the planing etc (certainly more than some of the other projects) and I commend Urban, Betts, Hutch and everyone else for their hard work but something happened and I am trying to figure out what...however I will refrain from asking more questions until I can take Tier2City up on the offer. And for those that love traffic circles, by all means contact Mr. Wenger (and although he likes them, he didn't seem to think it would work there either).

[Spartan]

I am kind of surprised that he wrote such a long response to you, and I am intrigued enough to possibly write him a pleasantly-worded email.

[OKCisOK4me]

I just sent this to Eric:

Hi Eric, my name is (OKCisOK4Me) and I am a frequent poster on www.okctalk.com. There's been considerable back and forth talks on there about building a roundabout/traffic circle on the west end of the new boulevard project.

I sincerely hope you have considered adding it to the project as it would ease congestion of traffic in the Western/Classen/Reno/Exchange area while also giving future development a realistic chance as opposed to having a second elevated boulevard going through this part of town.

I have provided a visual of the proposed traffic circle by one of our regular posters (who used a computer program to make it look professional (whereas, I used my Samsung Note)).

Also, if you have Facebook, be sure to check out Friends for a Better Boulevard, which has lots of new ideas from the general public that you're not going to see at an every day council meeting.

Thank you for your time & I do hope to hear back from you.

Sincerely,
(OKCisOK4Me)