Maps III Convention Centre Site - YOU be the judge!

[Rover]

I can't believe they're going to let that prime piece of land (which is willing to be developed privately!!) sit for 8-9 years BETWEEN a newly renovated Myriad Gardens and newly constructed Central Park...seems like a massive Convention Center would disrupt the flow of everything going on in that area. I'm sorry but if the City of OKC DOESN'T try to expand downtown further South of the Arena this is a stupid move in their part and a blown opportunity!! (of course unless they have an NFL stadium or something planned for South of the Arena!) ;-)

Seems to me that south is just park, so development needs to occur west and southwest of the site anyway, more towards the old downtown airpark. Or, it makes the old cotton gin & lumber yard site a private development area. I think the Prefakes (sp?) block and area between film row and CC site become an exciting development opportunity. And, the current Cox site jumps into play big time. It will be interesting to see how it all morphs. I don't think there is a doomsday location. The city will just keep morphing and become a great urban area.

[jn1780]

I can't believe they're going to let that prime piece of land (which is willing to be developed privately!!) sit for 8-9 years BETWEEN a newly renovated Myriad Gardens and newly constructed Central Park...seems like a massive Convention Center would disrupt the flow of everything going on in that area. I'm sorry but if the City of OKC DOESN'T try to expand downtown further South of the Arena this is a stupid move in their part and a blown opportunity!! (of course unless they have an NFL stadium or something planned for South of the Arena!) ;-)

It could be worse, they could decide to build the convention center first and let the land the new central park sit empty except for old building foundations and weeds.

[HOT ROD]

jn, I thought that is what the cc supporters are trying to push now. .. (or were you being sarcastic. ..)

[Spartan]

It could be worse, they could decide to build the convention center first and let the land the new central park sit empty except for old building foundations and weeds.

It's ironic though how this is used as an argument for why we can't have a waiting construction site (for ten years) between two parks..

So in terms of the immediate picture, there isn't a way to spin any of this into a positive, it seems. Something has to lose, and even though the only thing MAPS funding has been spent on so far is park land acquisition (which has also came out of bond monies), I wouldn't be surprised to see anything happen at this point.

[jn1780]

jn, I thought that is what the cc supporters are trying to push now. .. (or were you being sarcastic. ..)

Spartan worded it better than me. The argument for building the cc first is that the Ford site land will be vacant. Well, if we built the cc first we would then have acres of unfinished park land for x amount of years. Assuming the boulevard is built on time it makes more sense to finish the central park first. This would provide far greater economic benefits in the medium to long term than the cc would. If the city insists on those two unfavorable options, I choose park first and leave Ford site vacant. I'm with you and favor the site east of the central park which removes the two unfavorable options.

[jn1780]

It's ironic though how this is used as an argument for why we can't have a waiting construction site (for ten years) between two parks..

So in terms of the immediate picture, there isn't a way to spin any of this into a positive, it seems. Something has to lose, and even though the only thing MAPS funding has been spent on so far is park land acquisition (which has also came out of bond monies), I wouldn't be surprised to see anything happen at this point.

I agree

Maybe, they could remove the parking lot at the Ford site so focus is centered on the Myriad Gardens. Throw some grass seed around the site. LOL

[ljbab728]

I agree

Maybe, they could remove the parking lot at the Ford site so focus is centered on the Myriad Gardens. Throw some grass seed around the site. LOL

I agree also. It's not like the Ford site has been anything special for downtown up to this point. Having a vacant area is not much worse than a car lot.

[HOT ROD]

very much agreed, lj.

Excellent rephrasing Spartan, totally agree! And I hope the city plays with even rules and not use the Ford site to make it 'necessary' to build the cc first (and delay or negate other downtown projects). ....

[Spartan]

very much agreed, lj.

Excellent rephrasing Spartan, totally agree! And I hope the city plays with even rules and not use the Ford site to make it 'necessary' to build the cc first (and delay or negate other downtown projects). ....

Agreed, but the funny thing about "even rules" is that the convention center interests can spin anything that goes against them as being unfair as well. Watch it unfold before us...

[HOT ROD]

very true, Spartan. I hope/wish there is some way that the Streetcar and Park people can also have an equal forum where they too can voice concerns about rule changes midway into the game of Maps III.

The city is at a huge risk, imo, if they finagle the rules at this point to make the cc site attractive at the expense of other much higher profile and more desired downtown projects. .... it could result in HUGE voter apathy and the END of Maps.

I hope the city is listening to us on this forum ......

[lasomeday]

Hot Rod, the city is listening, but its not the city's decision.

Mayor Cornett is going to ramrod his choice down their throats. It is all about Mayor Mick and his vision of Core to Shore. That is his legacy and he will do anything to get it as well as the boulevard.

Look at article in Newok today that "the city" is pushing core to shore area as a retail destination. When we have Broadway that is perfect for retail.

[Rover]

Hot Rod, the city is listening, but its not the city's decision.

Mayor Cornett is going to ramrod his choice down their throats. It is all about Mayor Mick and his vision of Core to Shore. That is his legacy and he will do anything to get it as well as the boulevard.

Look at article in Newok today that "the city" is pushing core to shore area as a retail destination. When we have Broadway that is perfect for retail.

I guess everyone want's weak leaders who aren't "leaders" but sit back and let whatever happens happen. Just because the Mayor is in a position to advocate you act like it is a bad thing. We ELECTED him to lead...by a landside. Now you want him to be passive? Not going to happen. He believes in what he is pushing and he will be aggressive. Those with opposite opinions need to get out there and advocate as well. Then our elected leaders and their appointees will decide. What you hostily call "ramrodding" others might call "leading".

[betts]

I think it's perfect to push Core to Shore for retail. I'd love to see a new shopping area created there. Broadway is great for a completely different type of retail and I see very little competition between Broadway and new construction retail.

[Larry OKC]

No problem with pushing Core to Shore for retail in 10, 20 30 or even 50 years (future tense), but the article suggested that Core to Shore & Bricktown are currently (present tense) "booming" retail. Lets see, Bricktown could be described easily as "booming" when it comes to bars, restaurants and clubs, but retail? Then there is the Core to Shore, the Council declared the entire area as being "blighted". Hardly sounds like it is "booming" for anything, much less retail.

When a prospective client discovers that those areas aren't booming, it throws the credibility of other areas mentioned (Outlet Mall, Memorial etc) that are booming, in doubt.

[lasomeday]

I respect a good leader that listens to his planners. He has not!

The convention center at the Ford site will be a massive blockade that will cut off the "Central Park" from downtown and divide downtown from core to shore.

Between his boulevard and convention center he is making a new I-40 to separate the city.

Look at the poll most people want the convention center in Bricktown. That is where it should be. It is the tourist destination not downtown! Downtown is for OKC citizens that want to work and live downtown!

Larry! I agree totally. I would hate it if we had retailers come to our city and their first stop is "core to shore" and they see a small church, a post office being torn down and a bunch of blighted buildings. That would not be good! Also there are many other areas they could have pointed out for potential retail. Broadway, 23rd Street, and midtown would have been better places to tell people about our city's retail potential. There are many small national stores or cafes that are looking for unique places to put their stores. We should be marketing to them not just the big box stores and department stores. Department stores are not as popular as they used to be.

[Kerry]

lasomeday - national retailers will never, I repeat - will never, locate along Broadway in any meanigful way. There are simply too many property owners to deal with. It is the same reason why retail has never worked in Bricktown. Right now downtown OKC has only one location that is capable of attracting national retail and it is the Bob Howard site. If the COX is torn down then it would also have potential. At some point in the future the Co-op site could do it also. Unless a significant portion of land in Core to Shore is brought under a single owner it will never develop national retail either.

For national retail to work you have to have all of the availble space under a single management company that can work multiple deals with multiple retailers.

[Rover]

lasomeday - national retailers will never, I repeat - will never, locate along Broadway in any meanigful way. There are simply too many property owners to deal with. It is the same reason why retail has never worked in Bricktown. Right now downtown OKC has only one location that is capable of attracting national retail and it is the Bob Howard site. If the COX is torn down then it would also have potential. At some point in the future the Co-op site could do it also. Unless a significant portion of land in Core to Shore is brought under a single owner it will never develop national retail either.

For national retail to work you have to have all of the availble space under a single management company that can work multiple deals with multiple retailers.

So, you want core-to-shore to become a mall? LOL.

National retailers aren't stupid. They locate based on demographics and demand, vs cost of doing business, not whether a church is being torn down. If the right kind of traffic is being generated with the right buying power and low levels of competition they will locate.

[Kerry]

A mall? No, I would rather see it become something like Atlantic Station in Atlanta. Ground level national retail with office and residential on the upper floors.

http://www.atlanticstation.com/

[Rover]

Guess that is what we should hope the downtown airpark development becomes, huh? I don't think we will have the demographics to do it, but I guess we can always dream. It would be great.

[Kerry]

The downtown airpark has potential but it isn't exactly downtown. I would like to see the City urbanize the river between Byers and Exchange to bring people to the waterfront 24/7. I think people are going to be surprised how fast the Core to Shore area develops once the park is done.

[Rover]

But this is the CC thread. What is the tie-in about Broadway and the core to shore park?