Why is Tulsa so butt hurt?

[BG918]

I'll keep this simple...

Oklahoma state population (2010 Census): 3,751,351

By now it is likely close to 3.8 million. And the state will pass the 4 million mark later this decade. Time to let go of the 20th Century estimates.

As far as sharing the team between two cities, it doesn't work. No city in the NBA practices that model. Kansas City tried it with Omaha years ago, and it was not successful. As far as calling the team the Oklahoma Thunder, that is something we are all going to have to agree to disagree. The team was bought and is sponsored by Oklahoma City's business community. It is an Oklahoma City team. I appreciate Tulsa's support.

Think about this... naming the team after the city keeps the door open for Tulsa to name it's future pro team the Tulsa xxxx.

Agree. The whole "debate" is ridiculous. If one thing's going to change it's the logo, which I still don't like. Maybe if they changed the logo to a symbol and it didn't say OKC then people in Tulsa would be happy?

[Thunder]

Tulsa is the only city in the entire world to whine about this. That is just the way it is done for all the NBA teams out there. The Thunder is ours, not Tulsa's, so they can whine all they want. Its fine that some Tulsans can love and support the Thunder.

I joined their TulsaNow forum, which was quite impressive that no one there attempted to take my nickname previously. This will be interesting to see what I will find over there.

[Chautauqua]

I'll keep this simple...

Oklahoma state population (2010 Census): 3,751,351

By now it is likely close to 3.8 million. And the state will pass the 4 million mark later this decade. Time to let go of the 20th Century estimates.

As far as sharing the team between two cities, it doesn't work. No city in the NBA practices that model. Kansas City tried it with Omaha years ago, and it was not successful. As far as calling the team the Oklahoma Thunder, that is something we are all going to have to agree to disagree. The team was bought and is sponsored by Oklahoma City's business community. It is an Oklahoma City team. I appreciate Tulsa's support.

Think about this... naming the team after the city keeps the door open for Tulsa to name it's future pro team the Tulsa xxxx.

Fair enough...It's after the fact, and it is not going to change...I salute the success. At least you are smart enough to call it what it is. Oklahoma City's team. Just don't tell me that it benefits the entire state, because...it doesn't.

As far as sharing an NBA team...I don't think its that. I think it's just smart marketing. Expand your fan base. What does OKC have to lose by sacrificing 4-5 home games year? Some sales tax revenue, sure, but you could replace those dates with other non-Thunder events. You'd have an opportunity to market the team in Tulsa, sell a 5 game package to the business community...gain sponsors... hell, people might even get over the name faldera.

Tulsa is the only city in the entire world to whine about this. That is just the way it is done for all the NBA teams out there. The Thunder is ours, not Tulsa's, so they can whine all they want. Its fine that some Tulsans can love and support the Thunder.

I joined their TulsaNow forum, which was quite impressive that no one there attempted to take my nickname previously. This will be interesting to see what I will find over there.

That is absolutely not true. And it's not whining. I presented facts regarding the source of the incentive money, the documented support from Tulsa leadership, and the opinion of Commissioner Stern. All you have come back with is "mine! Get your own toy!" Whatever.

[kevinpate]

Pardon if this is already asked and answered, but is there an NBA team (or other pro sports team for that matter) out there that divides its regular season home games between two or more cities? Or is the desire for that more of a unique OK-centric populism notion?

[Chautauqua]

Pardon if this is already asked and answered, but is there an NBA team (or other pro sports team for that matter) out there that divides its regular season home games between two or more cities? Or is the desire for that more of a unique OK-centric populism notion?

Not that I am aware of, but it has been suggested recently....

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/n...al-plan-030111

8. I’d contract two to four teams. I’d make the remaining teams play four games per season in a satellite home city. The Lakers would partner with Las Vegas. The Clippers would partner with San Diego. The Pacers could play in Cincinnati, the Cavaliers in Columbus.

Having a "satellite" home city could take pressure off of local sales of season tickets, offer affordable prices for packages, and help expand the markets...and not just in OKC.

[OKCisOK4me]

The suggestions of it are just ludicrous! It doesn't happen in pro sports...

[ljbab728]

The suggestions of it are just ludicrous! It doesn't happen in pro sports...

Actually it has happened before.

http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php?ti...ty-Omaha_Kings

But you can see how well that worked out. LOL

[OKCisOK4me]

Yes, that was mentioned above, LOL. So let me specify...in the modern day era...

[ljbab728]

Yes, that was mentioned above, LOL. So let me specify...in the modern day era...

Maybe I'm a lot older than you but the 70's is not ancient history for me.

[HOT ROD]

Ok, let's set all of this straight, once and for all.

1) The team is called the Oklahoma City Thunder, because Oklahoma City business men are owners, paid cash to purchase and move the team, and took all of the risk for the sole purpose to bring a major league team to Oklahoma City. The team is also called Oklahoma City Thunder because the city of Oklahoma City and it's residents took a risk on building (and retrofiting/expanding) Ford Center and practice center. No state dollars were used for the purchase or construction, and the state is only missing a small portion of the tax it would otherwise receive from the Thunder and other NBA players.

To my knowledge, Tulsa didn't give anything up nor did Tulsa participate in anything other than the final presentation ON AN INVITATION from Oklahoma City's mayor to ENHANCE the relocation request (since some people voiced concern about OKC's long term committment). We'll talk about this more in a later point. Just because Tulsa built an arena after the fact and are a NEAR million CSA doesn't somehow entitle them to home games of the Thunder.

2) You are so incorrect in your assumption that naming the team Oklahoma City somehow alienates Tulsa from having/developing a fanbase. Case in point, Wichita KS - is a satellite city of the OKC Thunder with a growing base. Are they upset at the name? Is Lawton and Enid upset at the name? Is OKC having trouble filling the arena?

Spokane and Tacoma people supported the Seattle SuperSonics (as did Vancouver BC people before they got the Grizzlies) arguably more than even the citizens of Seattle. They also heavily support the other SEATTLE named major league teams and so does Portland and the whole state of Oregon. In fact, all major teams in Washington are named for Seattle, are the other cities in that state alienated by this?. Is Colorado Springs alienated by Denver's sports teams? Is Nashville alienated that the Grizzlies are named Memphis? What about San Antonio, does Austin not support that team? I could go on, but you should get the point now - saying a smaller city in the state is alienated due to the team being named for it's home base (and largest) city doesn't hold water.

I do agree that the Thunder could do more to market the team in Tulsa, but they should do it via their D-LEAGUE team that the same OKC businessmen who own the Thunder gave to Tulsa and named them after Tulsa. The Thunder could also make packages on Tulsa's cable if they aren't already and make promotional tourist packages if they aren't filling the Ford Center for games. This is ditto for Wichita KS, which I understand the Thunder is doing some marketing and there is huge support. They could also open up a store, but all of the merch would be OKC Thunder because that is the team name.

3) Oklahoma Sooners is already synonomous (sp?) with the name 'Oklahoma'. So if we had the 'Oklahoma Thunder', it could cause problems with the Sooners - which most people outside of Oklahoma call OU as, 'Oklahoma' moreso than Sooners or OU.

4) If the team were named, Oklahoma Thunder, don't you think that might just alienate OSU fans who can't stand any reference that could be tied to OU? Im not trying to start anything with this point, other that to point out that basing the team in Oklahoma City was a wonderful idea for pulling together the state.

5) As mentioned before, Tulsa has a D-League team that is the affiliate of the Thunder. Tulsa also has the WNBA now, also owned by OKC investors if Im not mistaken (but different from Bennett and company). There is no reason to share regular season games with Tulsa and this is not done in the rest of the league. Should we also have a regular season game in Wichita KS? They have a nice new arena and a nice fanbase of the team.

I do agree we should have at least one preseason home game in Tulsa on an annual basis, and perhaps also one preseason home game in Wichita at least every other year too.

6) Like it or not, Tulsa IS part of Oklahoma City's catchment market. In fact, NBA owners had some initial reservations with the OKC relocation; not because they thought OKC was too small and not because they didn't think there was interest in OKC. The New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets was a great opportunity to showcase Oklahoma City (and the state) while also helping the NBA given what happened to N.O. OKC has 580K+ residents and well over 1.35M in the CSA and tremendous corporate support and ownership, more than enough of the needed requirements to support a major league team on its own.

Nope, the reservations came from the city's market size. OKC's market is not like other major cities where there is a huge catchment area. OKC's market is basically just the current 405 area code + Enid and some of Western Oklahoma [roughly 1.6-1.8M people/700K tv sets]. However, this team came from a market much larger and more populated - Seattle's market covers nearly all of Western Washington, only excluding Clark County (which goes to Portland for NBA) [roughly 4.2M and 1.7M tv sets iirc].

This is not the case for OKC, the centre of the state ideally shoul have most of the state outside of the 918 traditional area code as its market (basically 2.5M people and probably 1.3M tv sets), but OKC's current market definition doesnt. Ada has its own market with Sherman. Ponca City is part of Wichita, I believe. The panhandle is part of Amarillo. Ardmore is part of Dallas, iirc. Lawton is part of Wichita Falls. E Oklahoma is part of Ft Smith and SE Oklahoma is part of Texarkana iirc. Im not saying that OKC should get all of these areas, but consider that Salt Lake's market is the entire state.

If OKC had most of the traditional old 405 area code on paper for its core market, along with 918 and Wichita's 316 as its natural catchment - then the owners would have had no reservation. But the fact that OKC doesn't have most of the state for its core market, making it arguably small in comparison raised a few eyebrows. That is the reason why Tulsa was invited to the presentation, to vouch that they would participate in the cable/marketing package. It wasn't required and OKC would have been awarded the team anyways (but it was a great opportunity to show solidarity and Im sure it made it much easier for Tulsa to get WNBA approval). They could have brought Wichita officials to the presentation as well, imo.

7) The fact that Stern had supported an Oklahoma named team doesn't mean it was the best fit to actually do so. In fact, Stern mainly did this because of OKC's small market size and NOT because he thought the team would otherwise alienate Tulsa. Stern was comparing the team to Salt Lake City, which uses Utah. But there are other small market teams using their base city (Memphis, New Orleans - both smaller markets than OKC btw) that don't alienate their home state or catchment, and given OKC's position as the region's #2 city after Dallas, Stern didn't realize marketing the team as a state team isn't necessary. If anything, it might have alienated Kansas/Wichita a bit whereas OKC does not.


I hope now you and other Tulsans can see, that there is NO way the name of the Oklahoma City Thunder alienates Tulsa from being a fanbase. If there are NBA fans up in Tulsa, they can chose to support the team or be a Bulls fan, Dallas fan, or whatever. They would still fall into OKC's catchment and likely have OKC marketing (which I assume is the case).

Also - The Oklahoma City Thunder has done wonders for the city AND STATE in that the team has brought positive spotlight to the city and the CITY represents the state of Oklahoma well - as it should, being the capital and largest city/metro. Tell me that does not have a spin effect on the rest of the state, when OKC's skyline, urban offerings, and TEAM is on national tv. ... Im in China, and I get to watch Thunder games and when people ask where I am from and I say OKC - there is instant recognition now. How is that not good for Oklahoma? (particularly since Oklahoma City carries the state name in its name, there's no need to say the state when you say Oklahoma City ... ...)

I think you and others up there, might be a bit jealous at the attention that Oklahoma City is getting; you think it should be Tulsa. If anything, I believe Tulsan's feel alienated not due to the name, but due to their continued inferiority complex and competitive/hatred of Oklahoma City - but that's another discussion.

[Spartan]

Ok, let's set all of this straight, once and for all.

1) The team is called the Oklahoma City Thunder, because Oklahoma City business men are owners, paid cash to purchase and move the team, and took all of the risk for the sole purpose to bring a major league team to Oklahoma City. The team is also called Oklahoma City Thunder because the city of Oklahoma City and it's residents took a risk on building (and retrofiting/expanding) Ford Center and practice center. No state dollars were used for the purchase or construction, and the state is only missing a small portion of the tax it would otherwise receive from the Thunder and other NBA players.

To my knowledge, Tulsa didn't give anything up nor did Tulsa participate in anything other than the final presentation ON AN INVITATION from Oklahoma City's mayor to ENHANCE the relocation request (since some people voiced concern about OKC's long term committment). We'll talk about this more in a later point. Just because Tulsa built an arena after the fact and are a NEAR million CSA doesn't somehow entitle them to home games of the Thunder.

2) You are so incorrect in your assumption that naming the team Oklahoma City somehow alienates Tulsa from having/developing a fanbase. Case in point, Wichita KS - is a satellite city of the OKC Thunder with a growing base. Are they upset at the name? Is Lawton and Enid upset at the name? Is OKC having trouble filling the arena?

Spokane and Tacoma people supported the Seattle SuperSonics (as did Vancouver BC people before they got the Grizzlies) arguably more than even the citizens of Seattle. They also heavily support the other SEATTLE named major league teams and so does Portland and the whole state of Oregon. In fact, all major teams in Washington are named for Seattle, are the other cities in that state alienated by this?. Is Colorado Springs alienated by Denver's sports teams? Is Nashville alienated that the Grizzlies are named Memphis? What about San Antonio, does Austin not support that team? I could go on, but you should get the point now - saying a smaller city in the state is alienated due to the team being named for it's home base (and largest) city doesn't hold water.

I do agree that the Thunder could do more to market the team in Tulsa, but they should do it via their D-LEAGUE team that the same OKC businessmen who own the Thunder gave to Tulsa and named them after Tulsa. The Thunder could also make packages on Tulsa's cable if they aren't already and make promotional tourist packages if they aren't filling the Ford Center for games. This is ditto for Wichita KS, which I understand the Thunder is doing some marketing and there is huge support. They could also open up a store, but all of the merch would be OKC Thunder because that is the team name.

3) Oklahoma Sooners is already synonomous (sp?) with the name 'Oklahoma'. So if we had the 'Oklahoma Thunder', it could cause problems with the Sooners - which most people outside of Oklahoma call OU as, 'Oklahoma' moreso than Sooners or OU.

4) If the team were named, Oklahoma Thunder, don't you think that might just alienate OSU fans who can't stand any reference that could be tied to OU? Im not trying to start anything with this point, other that to point out that basing the team in Oklahoma City was a wonderful idea for pulling together the state.

5) As mentioned before, Tulsa has a D-League team that is the affiliate of the Thunder. Tulsa also has the WNBA now, also owned by OKC investors if Im not mistaken (but different from Bennett and company). There is no reason to share regular season games with Tulsa and this is not done in the rest of the league. Should we also have a regular season game in Wichita KS? They have a nice new arena and a nice fanbase of the team.

I do agree we should have at least one preseason home game in Tulsa on an annual basis, and perhaps also one preseason home game in Wichita at least every other year too.

6) Like it or not, Tulsa IS part of Oklahoma City's catchment market. In fact, NBA owners had some initial reservations with the OKC relocation; not because they thought OKC was too small and not because they didn't think there was interest in OKC. The New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets was a great opportunity to showcase Oklahoma City (and the state) while also helping the NBA given what happened to N.O. OKC has 580K+ residents and well over 1.35M in the CSA and tremendous corporate support and ownership, more than enough of the needed requirements to support a major league team on its own.

Nope, the reservations came from the city's market size. OKC's market is not like other major cities where there is a huge catchment area. OKC's market is basically just the current 405 area code + Enid and some of Western Oklahoma [roughly 1.6-1.8M people/700K tv sets]. However, this team came from a market much larger and more populated - Seattle's market covers nearly all of Western Washington, only excluding Clark County (which goes to Portland for NBA) [roughly 4.2M and 1.7M tv sets iirc].

This is not the case for OKC, the centre of the state ideally shoul have most of the state outside of the 918 traditional area code as its market (basically 2.5M people and probably 1.3M tv sets), but OKC's current market definition doesnt. Ada has its own market with Sherman. Ponca City is part of Wichita, I believe. The panhandle is part of Amarillo. Ardmore is part of Dallas, iirc. Lawton is part of Wichita Falls. E Oklahoma is part of Ft Smith and SE Oklahoma is part of Texarkana iirc. Im not saying that OKC should get all of these areas, but consider that Salt Lake's market is the entire state.

If OKC had most of the traditional old 405 area code on paper for its core market, along with 918 and Wichita's 316 as its natural catchment - then the owners would have had no reservation. But the fact that OKC doesn't have most of the state for its core market, making it arguably small in comparison raised a few eyebrows. That is the reason why Tulsa was invited to the presentation, to vouch that they would participate in the cable/marketing package. It wasn't required and OKC would have been awarded the team anyways (but it was a great opportunity to show solidarity and Im sure it made it much easier for Tulsa to get WNBA approval). They could have brought Wichita officials to the presentation as well, imo.

7) The fact that Stern had supported an Oklahoma named team doesn't mean it was the best fit to actually do so. In fact, Stern mainly did this because of OKC's small market size and NOT because he thought the team would otherwise alienate Tulsa. Stern was comparing the team to Salt Lake City, which uses Utah. But there are other small market teams using their base city (Memphis, New Orleans - both smaller markets than OKC btw) that don't alienate their home state or catchment, and given OKC's position as the region's #2 city after Dallas, Stern didn't realize marketing the team as a state team isn't necessary. If anything, it might have alienated Kansas/Wichita a bit whereas OKC does not.


I hope now you and other Tulsans can see, that there is NO way the name of the Oklahoma City Thunder alienates Tulsa from being a fanbase. If there are NBA fans up in Tulsa, they can chose to support the team or be a Bulls fan, Dallas fan, or whatever. They would still fall into OKC's catchment and likely have OKC marketing (which I assume is the case).

Also - The Oklahoma City Thunder has done wonders for the city AND STATE in that the team has brought positive spotlight to the city and the CITY represents the state of Oklahoma well - as it should, being the capital and largest city/metro. Tell me that does not have a spin effect on the rest of the state, when OKC's skyline, urban offerings, and TEAM is on national tv. ... Im in China, and I get to watch Thunder games and when people ask where I am from and I say OKC - there is instant recognition now. How is that not good for Oklahoma? (particularly since Oklahoma City carries the state name in its name, there's no need to say the state when you say Oklahoma City ... ...)

I think you and others up there, might be a bit jealous at the attention that Oklahoma City is getting; you think it should be Tulsa. If anything, I believe Tulsan's feel alienated not due to the name, but due to their continued inferiority complex and competitive/hatred of Oklahoma City - but that's another discussion.

When was the last time you were in Tulsa?

[Kerry]

Texoma Cowboys? No thanks. As for Tulsa: Tulsa Oilers, Tulsa Talons, Tulsa Drillers, Tulsa 66ers, Tulsa Shock, etc... The last team in Tulsa to be named Oklahoma was the Outlaws of the USFL and they lasted one season. How come we never see any teams in Tulsa called the Sequoia Whatevers so they could appeal to all of eastern Oklahoma?

The biggest problem with Okahoma is having 2/3 of the states population in 2 cities. No other state is in that kind of situation. Most states have one dominant city with the second largest city being way behind in population or there are mutiple large cities. Imagine if Tulsa didn't exist and OKC had 2.4 million people. That would put us between Denver and Pittsburg.

Maybe we need to take a second look at the State of Sequoia.

[earlywinegareth]

OMG we already gave them the 66ers and the Shock...can't they do anything for themselves? What next? Are they going to expect us to do their complaining for them too?

OK, so I'm being sarcastic...BUT, why can't they go after the NHL? They could attract fanbase from NW Ark easily.

[Kerry]

The NHL in Tulsa would be a problem because it goes on the same time as the NBA. Tulsa should try MLS.

[BG918]

OMG we already gave them the 66ers and the Shock...can't they do anything for themselves? What next? Are they going to expect us to do their complaining for them too?

OK, so I'm being sarcastic...BUT, why can't they go after the NHL? They could attract fanbase from NW Ark easily.

I think there is a future for pro sports in Tulsa, just not NBA being so close to OKC. The metro is nearing 1 million and you do have OKC with 1.3 million 95 miles to the southwest and Northwest Arkansas with nearly 500,000 110 miles to the east. NHL could work, but that league is not currently in the position to add teams or move them to smaller markets. I don't see NFL or MLB ever in either OKC or Tulsa's future. I don't think the WNBA will last very long, there is just not the interest locally or nationally. Same for MLS, just not enough local interest.

Tulsa will likely remain a college sports town, and will support the Thunder. There may be a few that are against them for whatever reason but the people I know in Tulsa are just as excited as people in OKC and are enjoying following the Thunder. I think that's pretty common. Will the Thunder ever overtake OU football as king of sports in Oklahoma? Never. But it gives us something to watch in the winter/spring, and the state can get behind a team.

Like I said if the Thunder really wanted to reach out to Tulsa more than they already do, they could eventually change their logo to something that isn't specifically OKC (even if the team name stays OKC Thunder) and maybe open a Thunder store in Tulsa.

[Chautauqua]

The NHL in Tulsa would be a problem because it goes on the same time as the NBA. Tulsa should try MLS.

This I agree with wholeheartedly. Tulsa is a soccer city. I think MLS would kill it here. In fact, if I had to choose a pro sport for Tulsa, MLS would be at the top of my list...NHL second.

Let me say this...I don't care why OKC decided to name the Thunder "OKC". I simply believe that it was a mistake. Let's leave it at that.

Let me also say this. My observation is being characterized incorrectly. Hot Rod used the word "entitled" when describing why I believe the Thunder should play some regular season games here. It's not entitlement. It's that it is a pain in the ass for most folks to drive 200 (round trip) miles to go see a 2 hour basketball game. I don't believe that Tulsa is an NBA city and I think Tulsa would have a tough time supporting the NBA by itself. But I do believe it could better support the Thunder if it were more accessible. And don't give me that BS about the D-League. Give me a break.

P.S. And David Stern was right. It did alienate us.

[Pete]

I can certainly see Tulsa's side of things all the way around, including the NBA team name and the museum. In the first case, the Thunder ownership group did more or less use Tulsa to get the relocation approval and really hasn't offered much in return. You had to know they were always going to name the team after OKC because all the investors are major civic boosters, and I think they pretended to consider the Oklahoma option when it was never really likely. If not for all that, I don't think people in Tulsa could gripe but because of it, I can see the hard feelings.

And with the museums, if the situation were reversed and OKC was getting stiffed, that would certainly not sit well. I think in the case of the AICCM, the state has already sunk a bunch of money into the project and there is really no turning back now. The fairest thing at this point would be to give the museum in Tulsa the same consideration in the next funding go-round.


Apart from the natural rivalry, the two cities do often compete for resources, employers, tax dollars and recognition. Often, what is good for one is also good for the entire state and thus indirectly the other city but other times there are clear binary winner/loser propositions and there always will be.

[Kerry]

I don't see how anyone can say using the name OKC was a mistake. Only three teams in the NBA have a season ticket waiting list - Lakers, Celtics, and Thunder (although the fair-weather fans in Chicago and Miami might push that number to 5). The Thunder sell-out almost every game and Thunder merchandise is near the tops in NBA sales. How much better could it get?

Does anyone honestly think Tulsa is going to be there to support the Thunder when the team puts together a few consecutive losing seasons?

[earlywinegareth]

...and if they had been called the Oklahoma Thunder, the oSu fans would be complaining even more about the supposed anti-oSu conspiracy waged by the Daily Oklahoman. They could've been called the Oklahoma City/Tulsa Thunder, but then you'd have a fight over which city name should be first...not to mention be a laughing stock of the NBA. If you recall, we did that with New Orleans, but those were special circumstances. I'm still surprised the NBA let us put the name OKC on the Hornets for those 2 years.

I feel certain the owners discussed this issue at length and at the end of the day, had to choose which group to alienate. Sux to be Tulsa. And please, don't call Tulsa a college sports town...it's a high school sports town.

[OKCisOK4me]

Maybe I'm a lot older than you but the 70's is not ancient history for me.

Yeah, I was born in 78, lol, so the disco days are not a part of my eternal memory...

[BG918]

And please, don't call Tulsa a college sports town...it's a high school sports town.

TU is a Division 1 athletics program. IMO Tulsa needs to better support TU first before they think about adding another pro team. I lived in Tulsa back in the late 90's/early 00's and remember TU basketball was a hot ticket. But losing seasons and few NCAA tournament appearances since then have dampered the enthusiasim Tubby Smith and Bill Self created in the 90's. TU football has been pretty decent since Kragthorpe resurrected the program several years ago but it's tough to compete with bigtime programs like OU, OSU and Arkansas, all less than 2 hours from Tulsa, on the same Saturdays. You see the same thing with SMU, Baylor, etc. down in Texas though TCU has been able to somewhat breakthrough and build a dedicated fanbase with their recent football success, and the sheer size of the D/FW metro. TCU is also Fort Worth's team, in a metro where everything is Dallas-centered..

[Thunder]

If it make the Tulsans happy, Kevin Durant suggested a trip to Tulsa for Game 7 Celebration.

[Spartan]

Have I mentioned this thread is idiotic?

[Chautauqua]

I can certainly see Tulsa's side of things all the way around, including the NBA team name and the museum. In the first case, the Thunder ownership group did more or less use Tulsa to get the relocation approval and really hasn't offered much in return. You had to know they were always going to name the team after OKC because all the investors are major civic boosters, and I think they pretended to consider the Oklahoma option when it was never really likely. If not for all that, I don't think people in Tulsa could gripe but because of it, I can see the hard feelings.

And with the museums, if the situation were reversed and OKC was getting stiffed, that would certainly not sit well. I think in the case of the AICCM, the state has already sunk a bunch of money into the project and there is really no turning back now. The fairest thing at this point would be to give the museum in Tulsa the same consideration in the next funding go-round.


Apart from the natural rivalry, the two cities do often compete for resources, employers, tax dollars and recognition. Often, what is good for one is also good for the entire state and thus indirectly the other city but other times there are clear binary winner/loser propositions and there always will be.

A reasoned and fair assessment. Thanks. I appreciate your trying to put the shoe on the other foot.

I don't see how anyone can say using the name OKC was a mistake. Only three teams in the NBA have a season ticket waiting list - Lakers, Celtics, and Thunder (although the fair-weather fans in Chicago and Miami might push that number to 5). The Thunder sell-out almost every game and Thunder merchandise is near the tops in NBA sales. How much better could it get?

Does anyone honestly think Tulsa is going to be there to support the Thunder when the team puts together a few consecutive losing seasons?

There is a waiting list now...there was one in Portland when I lived there during the Clyde Drexler days too... and that is precisely my point... these are salad days. You had a honeymoon period, and now a playoff contender... its great, everyone is happy...but when the going gets tough, and it will, the franchise will have to reach out to their base for support, and what will that be? You cannot GIVE away Minnesota Timberwolves tickets, for example. Now they compete with the Twins, Vikes, and Wild, so its not exactly the same, but when KG was in Minnesota, things were pretty good. Gotta plan for fat and lean times.

TU is a Division 1 athletics program. IMO Tulsa needs to better support TU first before they think about adding another pro team. I lived in Tulsa back in the late 90's/early 00's and remember TU basketball was a hot ticket. But losing seasons and few NCAA tournament appearances since then have dampered the enthusiasim Tubby Smith and Bill Self created in the 90's. TU football has been pretty decent since Kragthorpe resurrected the program several years ago but it's tough to compete with bigtime programs like OU, OSU and Arkansas, all less than 2 hours from Tulsa, on the same Saturdays. You see the same thing with SMU, Baylor, etc. down in Texas though TCU has been able to somewhat breakthrough and build a dedicated fanbase with their recent football success, and the sheer size of the D/FW metro. TCU is also Fort Worth's team, in a metro where everything is Dallas-centered..

Tulsa is an OU/OSU town, with everyone supporting TU, because how can you hate TU, right? There are also a ton of Arkansas alums here, as well as a fair number of KU support. So Tulsa has a good college fan base. As far as supporting a major league franchise...one day. probably not NBA, because of the Thunder, but I could see NHL. I could really see MLS going over. The Roughnecks were very popular...and in the final couple of years of the NASL, averaged nearly 20k per game. Plus, Soccer fits our personality as a city...IMO.

If it make the Tulsans happy, Kevin Durant suggested a trip to Tulsa for Game 7 Celebration.

Shut up...did he really? *inserts hook in mouth*

[Spartan]

It seems hard to see MLS happening again because the league was already so close to going in but the Tulsa leadership lost interest. That would involve bringing many of the same players back to the same table again, whereas the MLS has totally moved on.