Cng

[Maynard]

CNBC's Rick Santelli is in Edmond today and highlights a company, CNG Interstate, that does conversions to cars and trucks to run on natural gas and gasoline at the same time. One can even switch between fuels on the fly, according to the video. Pretty exciting stuff.

•Equivalent of 66-cent a gallon gas from your own garage.

“This is the coolest story I have ever worked on – ever!”

– Rick Santelli.


Video: Rick Santelli reports from CNG Interstate in Edmond, Oklahoma - April 09, 2012

[ou48A]

Maynard that’s good stuff. I have been watching.

Over 30 years ago I worked for a company that burned propane in their bi-fueled vehicles.
There are only very minor differences in the parts used for natural gas powered vehicles. This is a proven technology that makes a lot of sense for vehicles that drive a lot of miles. Once you have worn out your vehicle some parts can be moved to your new vehicle.
But if you’re only driving about 10,000 or less a year conversion to NG probably doesn’t make economic sense.

[OKCRT]

Maynard that’s good stuff. I have been watching.

Over 30 years ago I worked for a company that burned propane in their bi-fueled vehicles.
There are only very minor differences in the parts used for natural gas powered vehicles. This is a proven technology that makes a lot of sense for vehicles that drive a lot of miles. Once you have worn out your vehicle some parts can be moved to your new vehicle.
But if you’re only driving about 10,000 or less a year conversion to NG probably doesn’t make economic sense.

There's the problem. Most people would never recoup their investment. It only makes sense if you are driving many many miles a day. Then you have to stop and fill up twice as much because those big tanks that were shown in the clip can get about 17 GGEs in there. They are 24 GGE tanks buit you can only get about 17 in them. I do it every day so I know and that 24 GGE tank cost right around $3700.00. That just for the tank.

They need to get the price way down before it becomes feasible for the average joe.

[flintysooner]

My hybrid gets about 40 mpg per tank so at $4 gasoline my fuel cost is $.10 per mile. That doesn't include the eventual battery replacement cost.

If I converted another 14 mpg vehicle I own to CNG and used the home fuel station so natural gas is $.66 per gge then my fuel cost per mile is $.047 per mile. My cost of fuel at $4 gasoline is $.286 per mile. The difference is approximately $.24 per mile. If my cost of conversion is $9400 then my capital cost is returned in 39,167 miles. That doesn't include the home fuel station cost.

I think I may do a conversion and sell the hybrid.

[Roadhawg]

I remember many years ago I worked for a guy that had his pickup setup to run on gas or propane I think and could switch on the fly.

I did the cost calculator on the CNG site and according to them I'll save $250 a year. Don't think the cost of converting warrants a change.

[Maynard]

Hertz Introduces Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) Vehicle Rentals In US 04/11/2012
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hertz brings CNG vehicles to Oklahoma City airport, expanding customers' rental options

PARK RIDGE, N.J., April 11, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- The Hertz Corporation (HTZ:$14.32,00$0.13,000.92%) (HTZ.NaE) is announcing the introduction of compressed natural gas (CNG) vehicles to its fleet in the US. Hertz will begin renting eight CNG Honda Civics and two CNG GMC Yukons at Will Rogers World Airport in Oklahoma City early next month. All vehicles will include NeverLost GPS units to assist renters in mapping local CNG refueling stations.





"Hertz is committed to providing our customers with a full spectrum of vehicle options to suit their rental needs including clean emission vehicles such as CNG, electric vehicles, as well as other fuel-efficient vehicles included in our Green Traveler Collection," said Mark P. Frissora, Hertz Chairman and Chief Executive Officer. "As more low emission, fuel efficient vehicles become available for general use we will continue to expand our rental fleet, reflecting our dedication to offering sustainable travel options."

The new vehicles will be on display at the Oklahoma City Thunder's home game against the Los Angeles Clippers on Wednesday, April 11. In conjunction with the Oklahoma City Thunder's Green Week, an NBA initiative for environmental awareness, Hertz will also be raffling off 10 weekend CNG vehicle rentals to game attendees.

The expansion of energy-efficient and clean vehicles stems from the launch of Living Journey, Hertz's global sustainability strategy announced earlier this year.

CNG is a cleaner-burning fuel, emitting up to 30 percent less carbon dioxide and up to 75 percent less carbon monoxide. The fuel also typically costs half the price of gasoline and is produced domestically. Last year, Hertz introduced the addition of CNG vehicles through Hertz On Demand at Oklahoma State University. Hertz also deploys CNG airport buses at its Los Angeles Airport location and rents CNG vehicles in both Italy and the United Kingdom.

Oklahoma City is serving as a pilot program for Hertz'sCNG airport rentals program. In addition to having significant CNG fueling infrastructure across the state -- approximately 70 existing or planned public stations -- Oklahoma is also home to several of the top natural gas producers in the country, including Chesapeake Energy Corporation(CHK.NaE).

"Through its natural gas vehicles rental program, Hertz shows its industry leadership and further illustrates the exciting future of natural gas as a transportation fuel," said Aubrey K. McClendon, Chesapeake Chief Executive Officer. "By renting a CNG vehicle, Hertz customers will cut their fueling costs in half, while driving a vehicle that is better for the environment. We hope the success of Hertz's program in Oklahoma City leads to adoption of this program nationwide."

Donlen Corporation, a wholly-owned subsidiary of The Hertz Corporation, played a key role in developing this program. "This initiative is a great example of what can happen when industry leaders collaborate to create meaningful change," said Gary Rappeport, Donlen CEO. "Natural gas vehicles play an important part in the future of fleet and mobility solutions as companies look toward achieving their sustainability and operational goals. Together, Hertz and Donlen are investing in programs like this to change the landscape of available transportation solutions." About Hertz

Hertz is the largest worldwide airport general use car rental brand operating from approximately 8,500 locations in approximately 150 countries worldwide. Hertz is the number one airport car rental brand in the U.S. and at 94 major airports in Europe, operating both corporate and licensee locations in cities and airports in North America, Europe, Latin America, Asia, Australia and New Zealand. In addition, the Company has licensee locations in cities and airports in Africa and the Middle East. In addition, Hertz operates one of the world's largest equipment rental businesses, Hertz Equipment Rental Corporation, offering a diverse line of rental equipment, including tools and supplies, and new and used equipment for sale from approximately 320 branches in the United States, Canada, France, Spain, Italy, China and Saudi Arabia, as well as through its international licensees. In late 2008, Hertz introduced a global car-sharing service, now referred to as Hertz On Demand, where customers can rent by the hour from various locations in the U.S., Canada and Europe. Hertz also owns Donlen Corporation, based in Northbrook, Illinois, which is a leader in fleet leasing and management services.

About Donlen Corporation

A wholly-owned subsidiary of The Hertz Corporation(HTZ.NaE) , Donlen with headquarters in Northbrook, IL, is the fleet industry's most comprehensive and integrated provider of financing and asset management solutions.

[ljbab728]

http://newsok.com/hertz-to-offer-cng...rticle/3665520

[OKCRT]

My hybrid gets about 40 mpg per tank so at $4 gasoline my fuel cost is $.10 per mile. That doesn't include the eventual battery replacement cost.

If I converted another 14 mpg vehicle I own to CNG and used the home fuel station so natural gas is $.66 per gge then my fuel cost per mile is $.047 per mile. My cost of fuel at $4 gasoline is $.286 per mile. The difference is approximately $.24 per mile. If my cost of conversion is $9400 then my capital cost is returned in 39,167 miles. That doesn't include the home fuel station cost.

I think I may do a conversion and sell the hybrid.

You have to include the cost of the home fueling station at over $5,000 plus installing the thing and then you have to add in the cost that it takes to run it. That fueling station runs about 1/2 gge an hr. so if you fill 14 gals that will take 28 hrs. to fill. Now if you add in the electricity it takes to run that (240 V) then you will start seeing the true cost. The figures you are quoting are no where near close to what the actual figures would be.

[flintysooner]

You have to include the cost of the home fueling station at over $5,000 plus installing the thing and then you have to add in the cost that it takes to run it. That fueling station runs about 1/2 gge an hr. so if you fill 14 gals that will take 28 hrs. to fill. Now if you add in the electricity it takes to run that (240 V) then you will start seeing the true cost. The figures you are quoting are no where near close to what the actual figures would be.

I haven't decided on the home fueling station yet. Maybe will wait as I think they'll get cheaper.

The electricity is estimated at $.22 which is included in the $.66 for the home unit or so I was told.

But the ONG station on 59th was $1.11 last Thursday.

I could actually get away with about 4 gge but I think I will probably go 14. The conversion is going to be less than what I was estimating.

[OKCRT]

I haven't decided on the home fueling station yet. Maybe will wait as I think they'll get cheaper.

The electricity is estimated at $.22 which is included in the $.66 for the home unit or so I was told.

But the ONG station on 59th was $1.11 last Thursday.

I could actually get away with about 4 gge but I think I will probably go 14. The conversion is going to be less than what I was estimating.

ONG was at $1.29 last week. It changes all the time. It was at .89 in Jan. If you go with an aspirated kit and used tank you can get out quite a bit cheaper. The in home fueling stations range in all sizes. The more they will pump the more you will pay and the more elec. they use. When you hear someone say they are filling at home for .66 per gge that is just not true. When you add up the true cost after everything it might be cheaper than filling at a station but not by much.

Did you contact an installer? What type of system are you looking at? Don't believe everything they tell you. I have been around this stuff for more than a few years and have heard some stories.

[flintysooner]

Did you contact an installer? What type of system are you looking at?

I understand on the variance in the prices at the pump and agree with you. The way I feel about the home fuel station is whether or not I want the convenience at home. One problem I have with the Phill system is having to send it back to Italy for repair. There are some other choices I am considering.

I've talked to several installers. It is quite interesting. Reminds me a little of the early days of the Internet. I'm beginning to understand the differences in the various systems right now. I've looked at Impco and Prins and several others.

[ThomPaine]

Maynard - thanks for the info!

In my opinion, this is a perfect example of where state or federal incentives should be used - new/emerging technology. I know that there was a tax break, but those have expired (I think) for CNG. Why not offer incentives to get this off the ground in a big way by assisting in paying to get this technology more widely used where it will become cheaper. It's a shame that the only automobile manufacturer that offers a stock CNG vehicle is Honda.

[BoulderSooner]

Maynard - thanks for the info!

In my opinion, this is a perfect example of where state or federal incentives should be used - new/emerging technology. I know that there was a tax break, but those have expired (I think) for CNG. Why not offer incentives to get this off the ground in a big way by assisting in paying to get this technology more widely used where it will become cheaper. It's a shame that the only automobile manufacturer that offers a stock CNG vehicle is Honda.

chevy/gmc is offereing cng trucks now(or soon) as well

[ThomPaine]

I saw that, but I think (not sure) that they are aftermarket conversions being offered through their dealerships.

[OKCRT]

Dodge Ram 2500 will be on the market sometime this year. They will be built in the Mexico plant and will be factory cng.
Toyota used to have a cng camry but stopped production sometime in the early 2000s. They could be bringing them back and I think they would be a huge hit since they are bigger and nicer (IMO) than the civic.

[Frustratedoptimist]

I would love to convert a vehicle, but until there are several more local CNG fast-fill stations, I won't be converting. There is only one is Edmond, OnCue on 9th, and if it goes down, people without an in-home refueler are screwed.

[flintysooner]

Converted my 2003 Lexus GX 470. Cost was about $7500. Ended up with 2 tanks mounted under the rear where the spare was. The spare had never been off in 100K miles. My tank capacity is 8.5 GGE but the most I've managed to put in is 6.35 GGE. My range is about 90 miles. So for my normal driving I fill at a public station every 4th day on average.

Connecting the hose challenged me a bit but now is becoming normal.

Favorite station is the City of Norman station at Flood and Rock Creek. Price is $1.509 GGE and pressure is always the best I've encountered.

The 7-11 at SE 19th and Eastern in Moore also has CNG and is supposed to be working but I couldn't get the pump to start this morning.

I do not get good pressure at the ONG station on SE 59th east of I-35.

Can't really say there is any noticeable difference on CNG as opposed to gasoline either in performance or mileage.

Just an update if anyone is interested.

[ou48A]

Converted my 2003 Lexus GX 470. Cost was about $7500. Ended up with 2 tanks mounted under the rear where the spare was. The spare had never been off in 100K miles. My tank capacity is 8.5 GGE but the most I've managed to put in is 6.35 GGE. My range is about 90 miles. So for my normal driving I fill at a public station every 4th day on average.

Connecting the hose challenged me a bit but now is becoming normal.

Favorite station is the City of Norman station at Flood and Rock Creek. Price is $1.509 GGE and pressure is always the best I've encountered.

The 7-11 at SE 19th and Eastern in Moore also has CNG and is supposed to be working but I couldn't get the pump to start this morning.

I do not get good pressure at the ONG station on SE 59th east of I-35.

Can't really say there is any noticeable difference on CNG as opposed to gasoline either in performance or mileage.

Just an update if anyone is interested.

Good info flintysooner
Please update us occasionally with your thoughts.

[flintysooner]

The 7-11 at SE 19th and Eastern is working flawlessly now and I am getting my best fills there. The CNG is $1.299. City of Moore fills their trash truck(s?) there as well.

I am getting between 75% and 80% fills.

I've noticed my mpg is down with the hot weather. Could be more idling.

At any rate that's a really good CNG station at a very good price. I actually like it better than the City of Norman station.

[Praedura]

Came across this video posted at Chesapeake's facebook page:



About LA's transition to CNG in all their transit buses. Which, of course, is the kind of thing companies like Chesapeake really love.

Some brief views of LA's downtown and a traffic clogged highway to boot!

[Praedura]

A related graphic (also from Chesapeake's fb page):



I wonder why the new transit buses for OKC don't run on CNG. Just too expensive to convert?

[flintysooner]

7-11 in Moore is .899 now btw

Don't know about buses for certain but tank size and range is a very real problem when thinking about conversion.

[Snowman]

A related graphic (also from Chesapeake's fb page):



I wonder why the new transit buses for OKC don't run on CNG. Just too expensive to convert?

Somewhere around two ago they started a program that is evaluating what the new buses we get will be. They have a CNG, an electric hybrid and the latest diesel; all running on the same route (23rd street) to get comparative stats and evaluate strengths and weaknesses of each.

[ou48A]

In the long run this is why I don't worry too much about high transportation fuel prices, shortages or its environmental impact. As the video explains this is a much better alternative than CNG for most (cars) vehicles. Cheaper fuel with few price spikes means a higher level of prosperity for our society.








Transportation Fuel - Methanol Institute

[OKCNDN]

No doubt there will be many of the same issues that normal gasoline currently face that CNG will face in the future when/if it becomes a bigger part of the fuel supply. No way companies will fail to capitalize on CNG as a source of big profits. The companies already have an idea of what consumers will pay for fuel for their vehicle. CNG price will rise to match that. State and local governments will begin to tax it just like regular gasoline. No way they let that revenue stream slip from their grasp.